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Republic Vs. Empire


JustDocBrown

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So all throughout my RPG career I always, for the most part, tend to lean to the good side, or the good guys. So naturally, when i started swtor, I became a Jedi Knight. I got to level 22 and I was sad that I didn't start on a PVP server. So I decided to work on another character until they implemented a server change so i could move to PVP.

 

I decided to start a character on the republic side and I became a Sith Warrior. Now, my Sith Warrior is a level 12 and I have Light Side I. Even as a Sith I just CAN'T be bad. But really, my question is...

 

Is there any good in the Empire? Do they have good morals, do they fight for a good cause? Can someone convince me that the Empire is right? Because as I play as this Sith Warrior and am forced to fight the Republic, it hurts me. Because I like the good guys.

 

Thanks.

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there are those within in the empire that crave order. they want to protect the galaxy through force, they're more misguided than evil, willing to sacrifice personal liberties for security.

 

noble intentions, just arguably questionable methods to acheive that goal.

 

the issue with the empire is that it is easy for psychopaths looking to destroy to blend into such a cause. it's the opposite of the republic, where arrogance and sedentary methods threaten the very peace they crave to keep. both have extremes that can be considered immoral or evil while attempting an overall moral goal.

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For me it is easier to use a school as an example.

 

The Imperial admin would have all the kids walking quitely down the hall, in order, in uniform, etc... As soon as one student breaks the rules, they are dealt with harshly. So harshly that it would serve as an example to the other students. This school would have a small population, bu it would be a school where the kids are never late, get straight A's, have no problems outside of school, want to achieve the highest level of academic understanding, and want to become leaders that will grow the community.

 

The Republic admin would allow the kids to get to class any way they choose. Uniforms would be encouraged but not required. The school would allow students to learn whatever subject they wish and even choose which teachers they want to learn from. Rules would be enforced, but from time to time, these rules could be amended. Students are encouraged to live and work as they see fit.

 

Both sound really cool right?! :cool:

 

That's the problem. Both are going to create a productive society but it's the means at which they achieve it. Evil exists on both sides, as well as good. In the stories the Jedi will go to great lengths to preserve a planet, but they will also not directly intervene to save the planet either.

 

An old parable asks this: A starving farmer is caught stealing food for his family. He stole it from a man who has more than enough food and even hordes it from other people. The farmer has 3 children and a wife who will starve if they do not eat. The law states that he should be prosecuted and the food returned. What is the right choice?

 

If the guard releases the man and lets him keep the food he shows compassion but he is breaking the law that was put into place to preserve peace in the city. If he arrests the farmer and takes away the food, he is showing loyalty and honor and letting a few die to preserve the greater good.

 

Jedi would show compassion, Sith would obey the law.

 

Which would you choose? Is there a right answer? It all depends on you...

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Right now I'm reading Fatal Alliance the first SWTOR novel, and in there there's an imperial agent who's working in the Republic to gather information.

 

He puts a fairly good spin on the Empire, and how the lazy and uncaring Republic who allows it's citizens to suffer should be replaced by the Empire, because then order can be restored and everyone will be better off.

 

The above post about school is pretty good too. The Empire isn't evil, it's just very structured and ridged, with a pseud-cast system. But the Empire is truly trying to do what it believes is best for the galaxy.

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I'm playing Bounty Hunter (LS) right now, and even though I go to the Empire for money I will forfeit payment if they want me to do something against my morals.

 

Of course that's just one players choice, but through playing the Imperial side I've notice many NPCs who don't seem to be bad people. Before playing the game I considered the Empire to be pretty much evil, but now I see that it isn't that black and white.

 

For instance: The captain of the Black Talon- not a bad guy, very loyal to the Empire but doesn't want to go into a fight he thinks is impossible (doesn't want to be thrown away). If you coax him into it, he helps you as much as possible, and takes responsibility for his choices. Nice guy, being an Imperial officer is just his upbringing/job.

 

I ran into an Imperial military ground leader who was very concerned about her troops, etc.

 

As was mentioned above, parts of the Empire work well with the insane, only concerned with their one personal gain-type of people, but many of them are just there because it's what they were raised into and it's all they know.

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So all throughout my RPG career I always, for the most part, tend to lean to the good side, or the good guys. So naturally, when i started swtor, I became a Jedi Knight. I got to level 22 and I was sad that I didn't start on a PVP server. So I decided to work on another character until they implemented a server change so i could move to PVP.

 

I decided to start a character on the republic side and I became a Sith Warrior. Now, my Sith Warrior is a level 12 and I have Light Side I. Even as a Sith I just CAN'T be bad. But really, my question is...

 

Is there any good in the Empire? Do they have good morals, do they fight for a good cause? Can someone convince me that the Empire is right? Because as I play as this Sith Warrior and am forced to fight the Republic, it hurts me. Because I like the good guys.

 

Thanks.

 

The empire has a handful of good people in it and even then those good people are generally willingly fighting for a pack of meanies, making them also mean.

 

So yeah.

 

By and large the empire is mean.

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The genius of any "bad guy/organization" is one that is convinced that what they are doing is right and that the so called good guys are actually the bad guys. That is what makes the best villains throughout any universe. Lex Luthor isn't a good bad guy but he is an amazing villain because he believes that getting rid of aliens on earth is best for mankind and he will stop at nothing to do so. The republic follows one set of morals and the empire follow another. However the Sith inside the empire are followers of the dark side and they are evil. They crave power and all that goes with it. Yet again it is two separate and opposing ideologies that make the Star Wars universe so rich and deep. Whichever side you lean towards may the force be with you.
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The sith arent bad they just want to be free - free to use the force whichever way they want... The jedi show no emotions and limit their force usage...thats just pathetic...thats why i fight for the republic not jedi order

 

Free? Free from what exactly? The Sith have free reign in the empire to do whatever the hell they wan't and kill anyone who disagrees - so your point is moot. And there are Jedi who embrace positive emotion. Luke and Revan are perfect examples - they're both heroes for it.

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The sith arent bad they just want to be free - free to use the force whichever way they want... The jedi show no emotions and limit their force usage...thats just pathetic...thats why i fight for the republic not jedi order

 

Word. That's a breath of fresh air. I like your philosophy. I have yet to play the game, as it's DLing as I type this, but is it possible to 'fight' for the Republic, and not necessarily for the jedi order? I guess I'll find out for myself in a couple of minutes. I hope so. Jedi... Sith. They're all the same. They all want to practice the force. Me? I like my laser gunz.

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Word. That's a breath of fresh air. I like your philosophy. I have yet to play the game, as it's DLing as I type this, but is it possible to 'fight' for the Republic, and not necessarily for the jedi order? I guess I'll find out for myself in a couple of minutes. I hope so. Jedi... Sith. They're all the same. They all want to practice the force. Me? I like my laser gunz.

 

Technically no but you can choose decisions that would benefit the Republic but break a jedi code but you will always be taking orders from the council.

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Started playing Republic - level 38 Jedi Guardian, who it pains me to leave - but now have kinda defected to the Empire because I'm on of those people who will (In the leveling phase as least) forsake a better piece of equipment if it looks Sh*te, and Sith Armour looks amazing compared to Jedi Armour (Though the Jedi plate armour looks good i'm yet to find it! If I found that or knew where it was I might go back to my Kira shag*ing Jedi...)

 

I've found quite a few decent people in the Empire, its just a lot of the Sith that are downright ba*tards. I've noticed one exception and that been the Sith Inq *SMALL SPOILERS*, when your asked to torture someone and you can choose not too and rather than mocking you for been weak he congradulates you on solving the problem using your head or something like that. *END OF SMALL SPOILERS*

 

If you removed the Sith/Jedi from the picture, its kinda just Order vs Freedom and the Senate p*sses me off soo much...

Edited by CptBrit
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Moral is the biggest B/S ever invented.

Who are we to tell anyone else our moral is the superior?

 

One side will enslave a population by force, the other will enslave a population by passive obedience.

 

Pick what you prefer but it wont change anything, you will still be a slave.

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If you play the Jedi Knight story, you will find out that the Sith Emperor is the most evil mother****er in the galaxy.....from any perspective(except his own ofc)....he almost makes Palpatine look like a nice guy. Edited by Romick
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"Evil is a point of view" ;)

 

I disagree. There are things that are just evil. Slaying children....evil. The Sith disregard all morals for a chance at power and that is in my definition evil. That is not to say that yes they can do good things however they also are not held back by any moral compass so they have the ability to do great evil.

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So all throughout my RPG career I always, for the most part, tend to lean to the good side, or the good guys. So naturally, when i started swtor, I became a Jedi Knight. I got to level 22 and I was sad that I didn't start on a PVP server. So I decided to work on another character until they implemented a server change so i could move to PVP.

 

You will be extremely unlikely to be able to move your character to a PvP server from a PvE server. It's basically never done in MMORPGs.

 

Is there any good in the Empire? Do they have good morals, do they fight for a good cause? Can someone convince me that the Empire is right? Because as I play as this Sith Warrior and am forced to fight the Republic, it hurts me. Because I like the good guys.

 

Republic are hardly good guys, they have a very, very long list of misdeeds. The Empire certainly isn't "right" morally, they are basically out for revenge. Neither side has any moral highground to speak of, but even in it's corrupted state Republic is somewhat better than the Empire, although the galaxy's sentients deserve far better than either of these can give them.

Edited by Rouge
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Alright, this is slightly spoilers from the planet Voss, but it answers your question:

 

 

The lines of good and evil are blurred. To put it simply, the Sith are actually the victims in this entire scenario and are striking back at their oppressors. Years ago, the Jedi persecuted a crusade against the Sith. They razed the temples of Korriban and Dromund Kaas, as well as bombing both planets.

 

The Jedi chased the fleeing Sith across the galaxy to Voss, where the 'good guys' corrupted half of the race there into the Voss. Corrupted part of the land into a land filled with darkness and evil. And set the inhabitants of the planet against one another in an endless civil war filled with blood...

 

-All to capture and kill people who disagreed with their religion-.

 

 

To put it simply, evil and good are based on perspective. This is true no matter what. In the Empire my character was hailed as a hero by the Imperials as well. I'm sure Jedi are hailed by the Republic as heroes.

 

But in that spoiler? Pretty much confirms who the real bad guys are.

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To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future. Edited by Romick
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To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.

 

Ah, but can't you use that same justification to totally exterminate all enemies? Because if you don't, surely they'll eventually just start fighting you again?

It's an understandable justification, but rarely a very grounded or moral one.

 

For me, I've always viewed the Jedi Order as inherently leaning more towards what one might generally agree to be a moral good. It's never perfect, and trying to teach people to be paragons of morality from childhood has... not always resulted in the best outcomes. But on the whole, the Jedi tend to go for the whole "let's not be absolute jerks to everyone" and "I think some amount of self sacrifice might lead to a more acceptable world" sort of gooviness than the Sith.

The issues of rigidity, self righteousness, uncompromising world views, and just general stuffiness are real and worth point out too. These things also tend to lead more towards the whole "crusading, slippery slope dark side" sort of fall too.

 

The Sith on the other hand... well, they're basically out to manufacture a bunch of sociopathic psychopaths. While the Jedi teaching might lead to this, the Sith sort of have it as a stated goal. This doesn't mean that Sith are any more inherently "bad" than Jedi are inherently "good," and certainly "good" Sith are not a theoretical impossibility, but... well, the Sith aren't very big on being generally swell people unless they'd be too much trouble to just kill off.

 

When it get's right down to it, Jedi generally try not to be jerks, and Sith... don't. But the Sith don't always see being a jerk as the end goal, it just sort of tends to... happen. That's about a morally clear as we're going to get on the issue.

 

As for the civilizations they support, they can basically go either way. The Empire was way more ingrained and social acceptable/mandated racism and so forth, but societies are quite capable of manufacturing a whole range of people and personalities, and there will always be those who are able to be "good people" in the mist of otherwise reprehensible behavior.

 

And no such thing as black and white, blah blah, shades of gray, yadda yadda. The core of idea of this topic is basically the fundamental questions of right and wrong, social justice, and society that people have been arguing about forever.

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To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.

 

It was Naga Sadow, not "Empire" - he had to maneuver the other major lords to support him - that wanted the war (to some extent the same with SWTOR, the Emperor has once purged an entire Dark Council because it's members opposed the planned attack on the Republic) and what comes to the latter claim, that's basic raison d´etre for genocides and as history has shown to the Republic, you can never get them all... The shadow of that genocide has darkened the Republic's future and doomed it to an eventual defeat.

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To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.

 

That's kind of what Empire's -do-, though.

 

And you generally don't have to wipe out an Empire to keep it from coming back. If you beat them once you can beat them again. No reason to make them hate you.

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If you're going to go right back to who killed who first, the Sith rulers are descended from Jedi hunted and exiled into the wilderness for splitting with the Order. That's the ultimate reason why the hatred started and why it's so strong, the whole thing is almost a civil war with the Empire and Republic caught in the middle.
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