Even with all that names should be discussed. Maybe not right now but there has to be a plan for them. Otherwise there will be plenty of mad people

The studio largely resolved the issue with names when they updated the naming conventions for 4.0 and let players add a space in their name.

How does that largely resolve the issue? Easy..... it makes it so that it would be very difficult to have duplicate names even with very common names if a player simply adopts the following format: <fist name> [space] <second name>

Personally, I use any common name I like for the first name and then use my old legacy name (which I now no longer have to display) as my second name. Example: Jan Jones.

So while this change done a while back may not please everyone, it is very adaptable to naming and avoiding a lot of issues with common names being taken.

Casi is right.. the real issues are not naming, but guild asset and intact transfer so that guilds are not destroyed and forced to somehow reform at a destination and replace all their assets.

Yes I agree. I think making the game F2P was the worst thing they could do. I don't mind if they have a trial version where someone has one character they can lvl till the end of the 2nd chapter of their class story, but will have to pay to see the end.

Bioware give too much away for free in this game and the subs are the ones that pick up the bill for these people who are too cheap to pay. Then they whinge because they don't get bough free content, whaw, whaw.

Problem is Bioware have now set that expectation and the model is in place and changing the F2P aspect too much can have a dramatic affect on player population, which also end up effecting subs. Just look at what they've done by removing paid passes from the GTN and locking Preferred players out of CXP gearing. Both have had a big impact on the population.

Personally, I would like to see them go back to a model where we pay real money for expansions. Add prepaid passes back on the GTN for PVP and FPs. Allow F2P to get gear the same as anyone else. Expansion playable content would be locked out if the expansion isn't purchased. That means that a F2P-Preferred player could buy the expansion to open up that part of the game and play it. This way Bioware are actually getting some return for making the content and subs aren't carrying the burden for those too cheap to pay.

This game would have gone so well if it was B2P and have paid expacs aswell as quality non reskins in the CM. What Bioware offer for a subscription isn't quality it's not compared to WoW, FFXIV the 2 top paid MMO games in the world they just don't learn and it actually hurts me as a person who has been a sub since day 1 and does anyone else remember paying the huge fee to buy the game when it came out ?

Yes I agree. I think making the game F2P was the worst thing they could do. I don't mind if they have a trial version where someone has one character they can lvl till the end of the 2nd chapter of their class story, but will have to pay to see the end.

Bioware give too much away for free in this game and the subs are the ones that pick up the bill for these people who are too cheap to pay. Then they whinge because they don't get bough free content, whaw, whaw.

Problem is Bioware have now set that expectation and the model is in place and changing the F2P aspect too much can have a dramatic affect on player population, which also end up effecting subs. Just look at what they've done by removing paid passes from the GTN and locking Preferred players out of CXP gearing. Both have had a big impact on the population.

Personally, I would like to see them go back to a model where we pay real money for expansions. Add prepaid passes back on the GTN for PVP and FPs. Allow F2P to get gear the same as anyone else. Expansion playable content would be locked out if the expansion isn't purchased. That means that a F2P-Preferred player could buy the expansion to open up that part of the game and play it. This way Bioware are actually getting some return for making the content and subs aren't carrying the burden for those too cheap to pay.

IF they did not change the business model for flexible access back in late 2012 ... you would not be playing this game today, none of us would.. because it would have shuttered in 2013 or 2014 at the latest.

So be mindful of what you wish for.

Same was true by the wat for ESO and Wildstar as well, both of which released in roughly the same time frame. Same for Rift.. which released a year earlier then SWTOR. Basically.. the sub only model is defunct for any new MMOs. WoW stays sub by virtue of a decade of installed subscriber base. FFXIV stays sub by virtue of having a 12+ year FF franchise to draw customers from. But these are the conditional exceptions in the market now days. GW2 went the buy to play route.... which is common for NCsoft games.. and even it is not doing all that well... but well enough to stay alive for now.

Whether it is griefing or trolling it doesn't matter. The problem is Harbinger has a toxic reputation and if you have to deal with either behavior on a daily basis the game no longer is fun and most people will not do it and when you fill up your ignore list then you what do you do? You seemed to miss the point that I said I filled up my ignore list is a short time I was there or you just want to ignore it.

There is a big difference there. I can fully support a cause to stop greifing if it is happening, but chat trolls are so easy to shut up that if that's your only issue with the server being toxic then you need to learn how to use ignore properly. If you filled your whole ignore list just for trolls and not credit spammers, then you may just be a little too sensitive because I don't think there are that many trolls combined across all the servers these days. I also highly doubt you filled it up in two weeks.

From reading your posts about how toxic Harbinger is, you would think the world was falling in. That is not my experience over the last few years and it doesn't even come marginally close to what you experienced over a two week period. Either you are the most unlucky person in the game to attract griefers and trolls or you are exaggerating for dramatic effect to support your false belief that Harbinger is as toxic as you claim,

I would love to see some proof that it is. Maybe some screen shots of someone griefing you are some chat troll harassing you (with names blocked out of course). Even a shot showing you were even on Harbinger would help.

I actually had proof of griefing on EH back in March because someone asked me to provide it, but it got taken down because I stupidly left the names viewable. Since then I deleted the image, if I can get any proof again, I will post it straight away. But considering you were a bad luck magnet with griefers and trolls on Harbinger over a two week period, it shouldnt take too much effort for you to get us some proof.

This game would have gone so well if it was B2P and have paid expacs aswell as quality non reskins in the CM.

Proof?

Sources? (sources that are not located behind you )

From reading your posts about how toxic Harbinger is, you would think the world was falling in. That is not my experience over the last few years and it doesn't even come marginally close to what you experienced over a two week period. Either you are the most unlucky person in the game to attract griefers and trolls or you are exaggerating for dramatic effect to support your false belief that Harbinger is as toxic as you claim,

I would love to see some proof that it is. Maybe some screen shots of someone griefing you are some chat troll harassing you (with names blocked out of course). Even a shot showing you were even on Harbinger would help.

I actually had proof of griefing on EH back in March because someone asked me to provide it, but it got taken down because I stupidly left the names viewable. Since then I deleted the image, if I can get any proof again, I will post it straight away. But considering you were a bad luck magnet with griefers and trolls on Harbinger over a two week period, it shouldnt take too much effort for you to get us some proof.

Exaggeration or projection of exaggeration.

Also ill informed.

Casi never even brought up the issues with Harbingers treatment of RPers until a bunch of folks jumped in and declared that all servers in NA should be merged to Harbinger. In fact, when people said she was lying or exaggerating, she actually took time to go roll a couple characters on Harbinger and do a fresh test of reactions to a player interested in RP. She of course got trolled badly there for no other reason then she had a genuine interest in RPing in SWTOR. She has a right to take a position against nonsense.

AND.. nobody has ever said any server is 100% free of players trolling RPers.. including traditionally RP servers like Ebon Hawk. So please stop with the nonsense. By comparision... Ebon Hawk on it's worst days is a walk in the park and smelling the roses compared to an RPer daring to enter into chat on Harbinger to in any way discuss RP.

This game would have gone so well if it was B2P and have paid expacs aswell as quality non reskins in the CM. What Bioware offer for a subscription isn't quality it's not compared to WoW, FFXIV the 2 top paid MMO games in the world they just don't learn and it actually hurts me as a person who has been a sub since day 1 and does anyone else remember paying the huge fee to buy the game when it came out ?

Have you played GW2? I only started a short time ago and it seems they have an interesting system with paid expansions that's a little different to what I've seen in WoW and other games. Basically if you don't buy a particular expansion you are locked out of the feature that expansion provides, even if you buy the next expansion after, it will not unlock the old expansions features unless you buy it. So you could have the new expansion but be locked out of the older expansion features. At least this is my understanding of it because I purchased the latest expansion but I'm locked out of the last one because I didn't buy it too. They also don't have subscriptions, they have season passes or expansions. This means that the developer will actually get money for their efforts upfront and not have to rely on a fickle, subscription revenue stream, to be able to pay for what they just made.

GW2 do have a F2P system too, but it's not as free with its content as swtor and if you really want to get into it, you need to buy the expansions or season passes.

I know this wouldn't suit swtor's model, but it's interesting how other companies do things and are much more successful.

Have you played GW2? I only started a short time ago and it seems they have an interesting system with paid expansions that's a little different to what I've seen in WoW and other games. Basically if you don't buy a particular expansion you are locked out of the feature that expansion provides, even if you buy the next expansion after, it will not unlock the old expansions features unless you buy it. So you could have the new expansion but be locked out of the older expansion features. At least this is my understanding of it because I purchased the latest expansion but I'm locked out of the last one because I didn't buy it too. They also don't have subscriptions, they have season passes or expansions. This means that the developer will actually get money for their efforts upfront and not have to rely on a fickle, subscription revenue stream, to be able to pay for what they just made.

GW2 do have a F2P system too, but it's not as free with its content as swtor and if you really want to get into it, you need to buy the expansions or season passes.

I know this wouldn't suit swtor's model, but it's interesting how other companies do things and are much more successful.

It's basically the same business model as GW1 was. It is a popular business model for NCsoft because most of their MMO business is actually in Asia and many countries in Asia actually prohibit subscriber only MMOs. Asia is all about "buy as you play" meaning that players often access in Asia by purchasing tokens that are good for X amount of play time, or they are actually Freemium where in order to stay competitive you actually have to buy in to their pay to win offerings in their revenue shops. Even WoW does not use a subscription model in Asia... they use a 3rd party contractor to host the servers and they also act as revenue agent for Blizzard, and take their cut right off the top (basically a lot like a 3rd party license).

I never said that but the RP scene has a very darkside to it that's worse than the toxic harbinger as they put it.

I've never seen that. I've seen back stabbing and B*tchness in guild drama that reminds me of the clicky cool kids at a school (which is funny because where all nerds) and also elitism. But that's the guild system. I'm sure everyone has had an experience like that at least once in a guild over the years in some sort of game.

What do you mean by a darkside that's worse than toxic?

But it's true the ebon hawk with it's predators lurking around the fleet.

What predators are you talking about?

I've never seen that. I've seen back stabbing and B*tchness in guild drama that reminds me of the clicky cool kids at a school (which is funny because where all nerds) and also elitism. But that's the guild system. I'm sure everyone has had an experience like that at least once in a guild over the years in some sort of game.

What do you mean by a darkside that's worse than toxic?

He is probably referring to ERP.... which is a thing these days for some people .. not only in this MMO but all MMOs, and many other interent fun zones as well.. including forums in some cases.

He is basically trying to distract and discredit RPers in general by pointing at ERP and pretending it represents all RP.... but it is actually a pretty small segment in all of MMO RP.

Since the ESRB on SWTOR is TEEN... I really don't see the issue.... the game itself does some amount of ERP as well.. not to mention all the violence (which apparently is OK by him, just not ERP) and is why it has a high ESRB rating. http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis.aspx?Certificate=31564&Title=Star+Wars%3a+The+Old+Republic

Exaggeration or projection of exaggeration.

 

Also ill informed.

 

Casi never even brought up the issues with Harbingers treatment of RPers until a bunch of folks jumped in and declared that all servers in NA should be merged to Harbinger. In fact, when people said she was lying or exaggerating, she actually took time to go roll a couple characters on Harbinger and do a fresh test of reactions to a player interested in RP. She of course got trolled badly there for no other reason then she had a genuine interest in RPing in SWTOR. She has a right to take a position against nonsense.

 

AND.. nobody has ever said any server is 100% free of players trolling RPers.. including traditionally RP servers like Ebon Hawk. So please stop with the nonsense. By comparision... Ebon Hawk on it's worst days is a walk in the park and smelling the roses compared to an RPer daring to enter into chat on Harbinger to in any way discuss RP.

Thanks Andryah. You have answered more eloquently than I could have. Have a good evening.

FFXIV stays sub by virtue of having a 12+ year FF franchise to draw customers from. .

To be fair to FF14 I think it's sub by virtue of the quality of the product and amount of content being released on an ongoing basis as much as the name.

Else you would think this game should be able to keep a similar model based off the name alone but clearly it could not.

Different companies though with different concepts of success. Square might be more than happy to throw money at FF14 development where as this game may barely get crumbs out of EA.

As for this games launch and period thereafter before F2P I do at times wonder how they quantify failure/success because even after it bled subs the levels of subs might still very well have been considered quite successful and nice to other companies but it simply did not meet EA's financial goals (which must be lofty on a $200M development budget).

I still think F2P was the right move though ... I wonder then, would FF14 be even more successful with a F2P model now that it currently is or would it hurt it? I've never managed to see the logic in how a F2P model "hurts" a game when the subm odel is running their right alongside it - I understand how cash shop and micro transactions can hurt the game but if the sub model is there to remove the micro transaction concept ... how does that hurt a game when you can bypass the micro transactions?

Cash shops I can see how some people perceive as being evil since they feel they miss out on vanity items in game solely because the development is fully put into the cash shop items which probably isn't too far from the truth.

To be fair to FF14 I think it's sub by virtue of the quality of the product and amount of content being released on an ongoing basis as much as the name.

Else you would think this game should be able to keep a similar model based off the name alone but clearly it could not.

FFXIV draws on a huge FF following over a range of SE games released over the last decade. It is in fact the only reason they got a second chance with the player base when they released a crashing dud the first time, and had to take it off line for a year or so to completely rework the game. If they did not have that large and loyal fan base, they would have never recovered from that disaster. Any other game released in the state FFXIV was originally released in... would have simply shuttered and wrote off their losses. It really was a steaming pile of crap when it first released.

SE, like Blizzard, is fortunate to have a large installed franchise customer base that was nurtured last decade during the peak in the MMO market place. later MMOs..... Rift, ESO, TSW, Wildstar, SWTOR all had to change business models to keep the doors open... because MMO players have become more and more accustomed to not paying subscriptions to access a game. In SWTORs case, they really should have seen it coming... given how hard Rift fell from grace, in the year after launch, with subscribers. But Bioware studio was new to MMOs and got a number of things wrong as it lead in to launch, so I can see why they slipped on the banana peel on business model as well as some other things.

HuaRya and Fushnchips,

 

I've stayed out of this debate until now but: No offense, if you two are trying to serve as "ambassadors" for Harbinger to demonstrate that it isn't full of trolls and griefers, you're not doing a very good job and might want to brush up on your diplomatic skills.

 

Protip: Likening RPers to sexual predators isn't a good opening pitch or way to win friends and influence people.

 

Dasty

Okay Dale Carnegie just realize I've played on every server and Harbinger certainly isn't my origin server and while on Ebon Hawk I've run into ERP'ers offering lap dances right at the fleet spawn point. Never had that anyplace else.

From reading your posts about how toxic Harbinger is, you would think the world was falling in. That is not my experience over the last few years and it doesn't even come marginally close to what you experienced over a two week period. Either you are the most unlucky person in the game to attract griefers and trolls or you are exaggerating for dramatic effect to support your false belief that Harbinger is as toxic as you claim

That's the RP'ers fake narrative of repeating that Harbinger is toxic when in fact it is a standard PVE server much like Shadowlands was before it died. They also have a disdain for people typing LFG on fleet as if that is some kind of crime that needs to be frowned upon.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to head over to Ebon Hawk and report every person emoting my character when I'm waiting for a pop on fleet.

That's the RP'ers fake narrative of repeating that Harbinger is toxic when in fact it is a standard PVE server much like Shadowlands was before it died. They also have a disdain for people typing LFG on fleet as if that is some kind of crime that needs to be frowned upon.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I have to head over to Ebon Hawk and report every person emoting my character when I'm waiting for a pop on fleet.

Speaking of fake narratives..... ^^

Okay Dale Carnegie just realize I've played on every server and Harbinger certainly isn't my origin server and while on Ebon Hawk I've run into ERP'ers offering lap dances right at the fleet spawn point. Never had that anyplace else.

Actually, I'm neutral on the subject. My experience mirrors Totem's almost exactly. I have characters on both TEH and Harbinger.

On Ebon Hawk, I had one creepy guy follow my female agent around about six months ago on the fleet. Nothing overt, just creepy. He quickly went on ignore. Never seen the lap dance scenario you describe. (Though I have seen plenty of slave girl outfits, frankly, on both servers). And, if I did have someone offer my character a lap dance, I would simply go about my business and not respond at all.

Based on my experience in MMOs, my inclination is that those doing that type of behavior are actually mocking RPers. That was certainly the case in WoW in places such as Goldshire on Moon Guard and the server I play on, Earthen Ring. As it turns out, ***** 13 y/os who like to grief exist in this world. They almost invariably get bored quickly if they get no response and leave.

On Harbinger, I've seen some smack talk, but that's about it.

Bottom line and granted my skin is thick but generalizing on either side is probably pretty dumb.

Dasty

Actually, I'm neutral on the subject. My experience mirrors Totem's almost exactly. I have characters on both TEH and Harbinger.

 

On Ebon Hawk, I had one creepy guy follow my female agent around about six months ago on the fleet. Nothing overt, just creepy. He quickly went on ignore. Never seen the lap dance scenario you describe. And, if I did, I would simply go about my business. Based on my experience in MMOs, my inclination is that those doing that type of behavior are actually mocking RPers. That was certainly the case in WoW in places such as Goldshire on Moon Guard and the server I play on, Earthen Ring. As it turns out, ***** 13 y/os who like to grief exist in this world. They almost invariably get bored quickly if they get no response and leave.

 

On Harbinger, I've seen some smack talk, but that's about it.

 

Bottom line and granted my skin is thick but generalizing on either side is probably pretty dumb.

 

Dasty

Earthen Ring! Brings back many old memories. It was a great RP server in Wow in it's heyday.

I agree with you that generalizing makes for much misunderstanding and conflict in forum discussions.

As for Harbinger... in my observations, it is less about smack talk in chat, or creepy ERP, and more about seeking out and trying to interfere with or disrupt RP in progress. Not that there is tons of RPing going on there.... because the community does not make it RP friendly in some cases and so either RPers never settle there to begin with, or they get driven to other servers to better avoid the nonsense.

That's the RP'ers fake narrative of repeating that Harbinger is toxic when in fact it is a standard PVE server much like Shadowlands was before it died. They also have a disdain for people typing LFG on fleet as if that is some kind of crime that needs to be frowned upon.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I have to head over to Ebon Hawk and report every person emoting my character when I'm waiting for a pop on fleet.

I do RP casually too, so I see both sides of the discussion here, I've not seen people get upset on EH when I use LFG on the fleet. What is do see is them getting upset when it's spammed over and over in the space of a minute. But the same happens on Harbinger sometimes, especially when a select few of the ranked guys do it and people get upset with them. At least some of them use the pvp channel, so you can turn them off or just put them on ignore.

What I would like to see on all servers is a dedicated RP channel like the PVP channel and a special ignore list that you can put credit spammers on, instead of using your real ignore list.

Even though EH was an old RP server, there are just as many pve and pvp people there now because the other east coast servers have died. It's the go to east coast server, the same as Harbinger is the go to west coast one. Except for some of the Ranked pvp idiots on Harbinger (easy to put on ignore), the servers are pretty similar. The main differences I see is there are more pubs on EH than on Harbinger. Imps are worse at pvp on EH than Harbinger and Pubs dominate the pvp there for most of the day.

RP is the same and as I've pointed out, griefing is more likely on EH than Harbinger. About three months ago I witnessed a group of griefers interrupting an RP group on Korriban who were trying to do group photos. I've seen lvl 70s there spam dual invites to lvl 10s. That is extremely rare on Harbinger.

My partner just reminded me that before she stopped playing, we were on EH lvling up some alts on Tython and there was this troll griefer at lvl 60 running around spamming dual invites and then trolling in chat if people wouldn't accept. She's a pretty good pvper, so she stepped in to try and get this person to stop. After she convinced him to duel against her and she made a fool of him, he left.

My point is that EH is not less toxic than Harbinger. Both servers have slightly different issues though. Harbingers is the ranked pvp community. But if you don't play ranked, which most of the RP people complaining here don't, then all you need to do is put those fools on ignore. There are only about 15 consistent ones and they are only trolling other pvpers in fleet chat. On EH I see the occassional griefer even if they aren't personally griefing me, but I've not seen any on Harbinger in the last 12 months,

I also hardly see people spam emotes on EH anymore than Harbinger. They are about the same.

There is a lot of misconceptions about both servers based on second hand experiences and old data.

Edit : any talk of merging the two is ridiculous. One mega server for the US would kill the game. It needs one per region. So they wouldn't merge the biggest server from the east coast with the west coast. I think people should stop worrying about this if they are planing on keeping regional servers. The only thing to worry about is if Bioware decide to go the one mega server route for the whole game. That would pretty much F us all up and I'm surprised we arent all being loud and making sure Bioware don't do this. While ever we keep being divided and arguing about merging RP with pve or EH with Harbinger, Bioware will quietly go about their plans to possibly make one big mega server and I think we all know how disastrous that would be for the game. If anything was going to unite us against Bioware server changes, it would be stopping one big mega server for the game.

Proof?

 

Sources? (sources that are not located behind you )

proof lol for saying the game would have gone well if it was B2P ?

proof lol for saying the game would have gone well if it was B2P ?

Yep... You stated it as though it was fact... please provide the facts and sources supporting your assertion.

B2P is actually not that common a business model for MMOs, so there are limited data points to support it.

Yep... You stated it as though it was fact... please provide the facts and sources supporting your assertion.

 

B2P is actually not that common a business model for MMOs, so there are limited data points to support it.

please go RP in game and not on the forums I have no time to RP with you.

This is a question for Casi, Andry and Rata. You guys are obviously RP people, which is cool, but may I ask, what is the main server(s) you play on and do you give them equal play time?

For the record I have characters on all servers, but my main servers are EH and Harbinger. I spend about 50/50 of my time on both and occasionally visit one of the other servers because I miss my characters there.

I split my game play into 40% PVE, 30% RP and 30% PVP.