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Consider changing the ranked ELO rating system to a wins/losses system

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Consider changing the ranked ELO rating system to a wins/losses system

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.26.2019 , 08:41 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
stop spamming/copy same thread with a bit different words pls. Your system sucks since it destroys quality of ranked and switches it to quantity. Those jobless, basement freaks will sit 24/7 and get tonnes of wins while skilled decent players working/studying making families etc. And if you think your system can't be manipulated you are mistaken. Same mafia will wintrade for wins now to get the most number of wins possible.

Current system is ok and needs only small changes like better matchmaking which won't consider high elo players be put in teams with total noobs.

Your system will allow noobs to get a guaranteed gold by just queueing 24/7 during all season. It looks like a cry from unskilled players who dream about gold but can't afford it with their skill
I personally couldn't care less about how ratings are determined because ranked is both meaningless and toxic, leading me to have no desire to participate.

The problem fundamentally how do you deal with the fact that not enough "good" players are around to guarantee a fair match? This is the fundamental issue with swtor pvp in general.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.26.2019 , 08:51 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I personally couldn't care less about how ratings are determined because ranked is both meaningless and toxic, leading me to have no desire to participate.

The problem fundamentally how do you deal with the fact that not enough "good" players are around to guarantee a fair match? This is the fundamental issue with swtor pvp in general.
Correct.

And does it even matter anymore if basement dwellers can play a 1000 matches to climb ratings vs no one wants to play ranked under the current toxic system?

Lhance’s idea may not be perfect or completely fleshed out. But the premise is something they could work around to change the ELO system for the better and encourage people to start playing solo ranked again.

Many don’t want to because of the toxicity, which gets really out of hand when someone newish causes people to lose ELO. As soon as that starts happening, people start getting really annoyed and go too far in what they say. It drives new and old players away from ranked because they don’t like the toxicity.

If Lhances idea were to help alleviate some of that toxicity, then maybe more people would hang around in solo ranked longer.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
02.26.2019 , 11:29 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
So I went ahead and checked this out for myself. I took the Top 50 ranked players in solo ranked (Front Page only since it's easy to extrapolate for the remaining 46 players in the Top 96) and collected the following data:

Total Wins for each Character
Games Played, assuming a 60% win rate (average for a top page player)
Total Characters who participated in Ranked for that Season

Here's the data: Spreadsheet of Top 50 player's wins and average games played, relative to participation for that season.

For reference, I won 510 games and lost 279 according to an old screenshot on my laptop, giving me a 65% win rate for that season, so 60% is a fair enough average.

As you can see, relative to the population who participated in Ranked for each season, S10 had the lowest total participation when compared to other seasons, however the ratio of wins per character is still pretty close to that of more populated seasons.

What we can conclude from this is that: Players who are cheating for their rank by playing a few games and quitting are actually an extreme minority relative to players who actually play 100+ games to achieve their rank. All the numbers are right there on the leaderboards if you'd like to conduct your own test if you believe my numbers are made up as well. Looking at this leads me to conclude that while there are people who are cheating the system, it is a grave minority relative to a total of 500 Top 50 players being analyzed across every PvP season to exist. Even if it's 50 people total, and they all happened to have cheated in the same season (S10 allegations), that's still only 10% of Front page players. That means at least 90% of Top 50 players achieved it fairly by playing on average, a whopping 501 games to achieve their rating, per season.

So in short, yes, ban the few cheaters. But don't push this assumption that even a majority of the top 96 cheat, because according to easily accessible data, it's not true. It's a minority who are cheating, and they should be punished accordingly.
kre'a you are directly refering to top 96. there was a gold sniper that I pointed out to everyone named queue tester with 10 wins and 1500 rating (gold solos)

as for whether the top 96 played a lot? I will admit they played a hellva lot this season than ever before do to how hrd it was to actually climb. but its doesnt change the fact that they didnt have to keep their rating high. swtor doesnt have rating decay so if someone got 1700 after the first 30 wins they could have sat on their hands for about 5 months and not had to worry about a thing.

I would 100% support the removal of elo loss. I think the best thing they could do is keep elo gain how it is, increase score threshhold (gold is say 2.5k) and remove elo loss, making a loss 0. this wont change anything except make your accompplishments your own. if you can win, you will, if you lose well you lost, better luck next time.

Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
02.26.2019 , 11:35 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
kre'a you are directly refering to top 96. there was a gold sniper that I pointed out to everyone named queue tester with 10 wins and 1500 rating (gold solos)

as for whether the top 96 played a lot? I will admit they played a hellva lot this season than ever before do to how hrd it was to actually climb. but its doesnt change the fact that they didnt have to keep their rating high. swtor doesnt have rating decay so if someone got 1700 after the first 30 wins they could have sat on their hands for about 5 months and not had to worry about a thing.
I targeted the top 96 because that appears to be the issue that people have the most with. It seems they care mostly about people cheating their way into top 96 and less about gold rewards since even a bronze player can get those if they really wanted to.

However I 150% support rating decay.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.26.2019 , 05:57 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
I would 100% support the removal of elo loss. I think the best thing they could do is keep elo gain how it is, increase score threshhold (gold is say 2.5k) and remove elo loss, making a loss 0. this wont change anything except make your accompplishments your own. if you can win, you will, if you lose well you lost, better luck next time.
This would be an improvement over the present ELO system.

The losses do way too much damage to someone's rating who is honestly trying to build ELO, and the fact is wintrading is so frequently done right now that everyone's rating/ELO suffers, on top of that the matches are terrible when these cheaters are in the queue.

I still don't see this curbing the cheating though, not one bit. It's too easy for a group of "friends" to win trade a handful of matches to get their ELO. The only thing is if losses had no impact on ELO, at least people wouldn't be as affected by the cheating, win trades, match drops, etc. You still would have ruined matches though due to the consistent flow of match droppers/wintraders.

I'd rather just ditch ELO, and make the contests about total wins personally only because there would be no quick and easy way to cheat for rewards as there is now with wintrading for ELO.

At least make the cheaters work hard and invest time into it if they are going to try to cheat the system. Having a scoring system based on wins also would make it easier to catch cheaters because there would be a much larger sample size of their wintrade activity.

Another added benefit to having a wins scoring system would be a more active queue. The need for wins plus the lack of toxicity created by lost ELO would contribute to more people queuing for ranked, especially solo ranked.
The Revival of SWTOR: Petition for More Funding and Resources
(Click link Below For More Information)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=959696

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
02.26.2019 , 08:26 PM | #36
I made that suggestion before I found out the new ranked vendor is a grind.

peace yall, its been real.