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SS solo ranked pops during pre-season

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
SS solo ranked pops during pre-season

begemotamus's Avatar


begemotamus
02.25.2019 , 04:59 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
The new approach of removing elo is just an attempt of making ranked EASY and way of getting ranked rewards EASY. Just play tonnes of games and get your reward lol. This actually means quantity over quality. The fact you react so hard only proves that you guys just can't consider criticism and trying to find an easy way to get good rewards.
Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
I agree with you that they should not make any changes to make ranked "easier" by going to a point based system that some people want. Ranked is supposed to be about "who is better" not about who plays the most. I do not think that people who want the point system are people who might want to get rewards easier. Some of them perhaps, but I feel its more about people just wanting a change overall. Changing to a point system is an idea. I dont think its a good one, but its still a fair idea.
Well, I did say not everyone will like this idea.

I'm not necessarily suggesting a win point system. The main point is that the ELO system just doesn't work. The evidence is the significant decline in ranked participation over the years. And then a drastic increase in participation in the two weeks when they remove the ELO ratings and add mats.

Sure, there are now more games with people who can't press buttons. But due to the much higher number of pops (which now go almost round the clock on SS), it is much more enjoyable overall, for me. And I would like this to become a regular thing not just something that happens during pre-season.

Thus I'll happily forgo ELO ratings in lieu of something else that will keep the pops alive. It's ok if you don't agree.

With some sort of a win point system, the argument of 'no lifers will get all the rewards due to sitting in queue 24 hours a day' is somewhat flawed. Some may think that 'noobs' with time on their hands don't deserve the rewards because they are simply not as skilled as the veterans. It's just not fair, right! Well, you'll find that not many things in life are fair.

For example, think about day to day life IRL. A 'single' person can spend more time at work and put in more effort than a 'family' person. The single person will get rewarded accordingly, and the family person won't. Is that unfair or just a natural part of life? Another example, a person who is very good at their job will climb the corporate ladder faster than the average person. Happens all the time. Some may say its unfair or preferential treatment or some other excuse. There are many other examples, but the gist is that all this happens because the world is inherently not fair and it never will be!

So why expect the game to be fair? I'll have no problem if the game mimics real life. As in, there will be players who spend a disproportionate amount of time doing ranked and getting rewards ahead of me even though their skill level is nowhere near mine. But its ok, because I'm still having fun!

Bottom line is, I just want more pops! I don't mind if the quality of pops varies, its still better than no pops!
Last couple of weeks it's been very good, so all I want is for this to continue.
I may be wrong...

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.25.2019 , 06:58 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
Didn't you get the message? SR is *MY* playground! Get off it.
Can’t we share

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
02.25.2019 , 07:09 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Can’t we share
In all seriousness, I see the bullying attitude has started up tonight. Maybe in prep for the season starting tomorrow. I'm seeing what I guess are the "regulars" coming back. They /stuck it if the first round is lost, or just quit if they decide their team doesn't deserve their specialness, after telling the rest of us to not queue ranked. Very sad. Whatever... have fun crying "someone queue yolos!" in gen chat on the fleets over and over.

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.25.2019 , 08:00 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by begemotamus View Post
The main point is that the ELO system just doesn't work. The evidence is the significant decline in ranked participation over the years.
This. ^

Also, In no way do the rewards granted indicate that players with top ELO are the best nor is this hard to do for those who are willing to cheat. The fact is the majority of top ELO scored "winners" were found to be cheaters.


Here's a SS that DuHavok provided of people caught cheating. This is only two of the classes. Look how many were removed from the top scoring positions:

Quote: Originally Posted by DuHavok View Post
Just those 2 classes where it's a huge difference in solo ranked
Pretty much sums season 10 ranked.

Sorcerer/Sage: https://imgur.com/a/T2ygTgQ
Powertech/Vanguard: https://imgur.com/a/uRKHdBG

If you wonder what are those blacked out players, these are people that got banned but the leaderboards didn't refresh yet.

And this is assuming that's the only ones caught. What about ones who were not caught? How does this present system indicate skill when there's so much rampant cheating?


Exactly how does a player's ELO indicate they are great when the manipulation of the system is so rampant? Also, exactly what is "hard" about win trading, dropping queues, and all the other methods experienced ranked player snow use to manipulate the system?

Player's know who the best are. A top 3 title or reward doesn't mean anything anymore. Sorry to burst your bubble, but having a top 3 title only makes me think you probably bought the account or cheated to get it.

If people want to discuss how a wins/loss point system for ranked rewards is a bad idea, then at least provide some logical argument as to how it's bad. Not the excuse "It's too easy." It's far easier for people to cheat their way to high ELO now than it would be to play a large number of matches.

If a wins/loss system was in place, there would be less crying/whining about losses too if losses didn't hurt so much. Players would be more apt to participate with less toxicity in the matches. Because a loss causes so much damage to ELO, there's tons of pressure on honest players to not lose.

Right now a loss does so much damage that people can't help but get highly irritated when they lose. Whether it's a win trader, a match dropper, a poorly skilled player, all of these and more cause losses and these are all way too common in the matches. Especially win trades/match droppers. I shouldn't get my ELO crushed by a few win traders, and that's what happens now.

People complain ad nauseum about other cheating for ELO, and BW for years has tried but failed to stop shady players from finding ways to manipulate and cheat for ELO. The only real solution is to get rid of it. It doesn't work. The only thing that is happening is people are getting better at cheating the system, and more people want nothing to do with ranked due to it's extreme toxicity.
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Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
02.25.2019 , 08:06 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
Us skilled players have a right to be upset when "new" players decide to play ranked when they clearly have way to much to learn and think about before they would meet any concept of minimum requirements that us skilled players would perceive as acceptable for them to be playing ranked.
I disagree with this mentality, friend. If we don’t allow new players to fail, how will they learn? I especially despise this thought process purely because I was literal garbage in S1-3 and worked really hard, getting flamed and told to “quit polluting the ranked pool” while I learned from my mistakes and got better. Eventually I became above average relative to my peers and was no longer complete garbage. But I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to get to my skill level today if I had listened to those players telling me to stop queuing.

Elo doesn’t work because it needs a large population to work properly. That will never happen if people keep telling new players to stop queuing. It’s counter intuitive to both want ranked to thrive and want bad players to stop queuing.

Everyone is a bad player relative to someone else. Anyone should be allowed to participate in ranked.

RafaelPeretz's Avatar


RafaelPeretz
02.25.2019 , 09:36 PM | #26
Played some matches today.
It's the same cancer as ever IMO:

- Matchmaking stacking classes that perform extremely better than others in arenas
- Carrying useless people all around and getting nothing for it, even a vote as a "thank you dude"
- Getting shouted by people that can't pull 2k dps in a match, because you could not carry em.

Same randomness and sadness as ever.
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Giving a break from the game...

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
02.25.2019 , 11:11 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
I disagree with this mentality, friend. If we don’t allow new players to fail, how will they learn? I especially despise this thought process purely because I was literal garbage in S1-3 and worked really hard, getting flamed and told to “quit polluting the ranked pool” while I learned from my mistakes and got better. Eventually I became above average relative to my peers and was no longer complete garbage. But I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to get to my skill level today if I had listened to those players telling me to stop queuing.

Elo doesn’t work because it needs a large population to work properly. That will never happen if people keep telling new players to stop queuing. It’s counter intuitive to both want ranked to thrive and want bad players to stop queuing.

Everyone is a bad player relative to someone else. Anyone should be allowed to participate in ranked.
I am not against new players to play ranked. What I consider someone who is new and NOT ready for ranked are the players who do not pop dcds, or pop all of them when no one is on them and they are taking aoe damage from 1 person. People who dont realize that some1 is mezzed and they go and brake it which is also usually the last person your supposed to attack usually. You should know your basic dps rotation as a dps, you need to be able to guard swap relatively fast as a tank and not be the guy who guards the healer only while they are ccing your healer and killing your dps.


Its somewhat these types of new players that I feel should not be playing ranked, aswell as those who dont normally pvp and just queue for mats. I've always enjoyed quality over quantity, sadly the last season we had this was probably season 2. I just think people should be able to learn these basics in normal wzs before they decide to try out ranked.
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

limenutpen's Avatar


limenutpen
02.26.2019 , 03:24 AM | #28
May be I will try some games with my Sniper today.

Coming from a main as a Sage healer I hate the arena concept, so will try something different this time.
The game made me hate it, as I think that Arenas are not made for healers in solo mode.
Group is another thing though, yes in group squad you need healer and tanks.

I think Arenas are fun with DPS, so I will go with sniper who in regs is always top three in DPS charts.
Nutpen: Sage, Lim'suno: Scoundrel, Lei'Suno: Commando, Color-full: Sentinel
Los'suno: Assasin, Diopen: Juggernaut, Grandblu: Powertech, Brontolon: Sniper