Hello, my fellow Sages. Our Class Representative Nibbon stated here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6952892#post6952892 that he's gone and won't be participating in the Class Representative questions if they restarted.

Well, it looks like they've restarted: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7199122#edit7199122

Reviewing our Class Rep thread, there were scant other nominees other than Nibbon. Psirebral, the Sorcerer rep, has also quit the game after the debacle that was "Heal to Full." I started this thread, not to wrest the Class Rep title from Nibbon or anyone else. But I also don't think that the Sage community should express complete apathy, because many of the same issues that existed in the Sorcerer round still exist. So I'm hoping we can get some discussion going about what questions to pose to the developers.

Here is Tait confirming that I can submit the questions as if I were the class rep:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7317173#post7317173

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PvE - Survivability

The developers stated in the Sorcerer answers that healing is intended to make up a significant part of Sage survivability and the suggestion of providing defensive cooldowns besides Force Mend and Force Barrier were rejected outright. The community believes that Sage survivability suffers from a number of inherent problems with its defensive tools.

In order to use Force Armor or Force Mend on yourself, you need to use a global cooldown. And in the case of Force Armor use 5%-10% of your resources. That's simply an unacceptable trade off in most PvE situations. For example in Nightmare content (as we saw in TFB & S&V), there are very tight enrage timers which require maximum dps to meet. There is also a lot of "random" damage (where an operation member is targeted to take damage) and a lot of instances where there is significant AOE damage to the entire operation. In many of these cases, Sages take more damage than other classes simply because the damage is first mitigated by armor and passive damage resistance and Sages have the least access to those options.

Most recently in the final fight of Dread Fortress has a very high DPS check with significant damage coming from the boss (both AOE and randomly targeted). Sages need to spend GCDs and resources rather than doing damage and that increases the chance of a defeat. Athough Sages are still able to clear the content, the community is concerned that their lower survivability makes them less suitable for progression content.

These issues have caused many in the community to speculate that Sages are intended to be a "glass cannon," frail but able to pack a punch. Sages, however, don't have the inverse advantage in damage to survival that one would expect if that was the case. Many spirited discussions have issued debating this question of the theory of Sage survivability and we invite the developers to take part.

The question

Are the developers satisfied with Sage/Sorcerer survivability, specifically in PvE operations? What is your philosophy towards the Sage class and its defenses? Are there any plans to improve the class's current survival tools? For example, by perhaps providing a means with which to move our tools (Force Armor, Force Mend, etc.) off the GCD when cast on yourself?

PvP - Seer Spec Issues

Currently, Sage healers have a number of issues that affect their play. First, Sages are nearly 100% reliant on casted healing abilities. Our only instant healing abilities are Force Armor and Rejuvenate. Force Armor has a long lockout and Rejuvenate is a small heal mostly used to proc Conveyance. Salvation can be cast instantly, but it requires using Healing Trance (and usually Rejuvenate) as a set-up.

In PvP, this causes great issues, because while Sage healers are capable of putting up great numbers because of Salvation spamming, under heavy pressure a static AoE heal is not ideal in the frenetic PvP environment.

The Noble Sacrifice/Consumption mechanic is really unique, and the community agrees that in PvE at least it provides Seer/Corruption with a sensible mechanic for restoring Force. In PvP, this mechanic presents very serious problems. Sage healers are one of the priority targets for being focused and in that situation purposefully sacrificing your health to maintain force is not possible. This is exacerbated by the issue of Sage healers being reliant on casts. This puts the Sage in the unenviable situation of having to stay still to restore health and Force.

Also, while Benevolence has its uses in emergency situations and off healing as a DPS, for Seer Sages this ability is very underwhelming and rarely used. In your 2.0 blog you mentioned that the ability is to be used when Force efficiency is not a concern. Unfortunately, in most emergencies efficiency is a concern as wasteful rotations will only lead to a prolonged emergency.

The question

Are the developers considering any changes to Seer spec to reduce the heavy reliance on casted abilities or to improve force management in a way that is not detrimental to survival? For example, improving Rejuvenate, reducing the lockout duration of Force Armor, or removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice via set bonuses?

Sage as Jedi

While the majority of these class representative questions, both Sages and other classes, have been about balance issues, the Sage community has a unique concern shared in some respects with our mirror class, the Sorcerer but in some ways unique to the Sage class. Put bluntly, the class has some visual and mechanical issues that make it feel more like a traditional mage class instead of a Jedi Knight. There are two main reasons for this: (1) We don’t use our lightsaber for anything; (2) Several animations lack the feeling of power. Discussing those in turn.

Sages and Sorcerers are force using classes and as such have the lightsaber as a weapon proficiency. In addition, our force free attack Saber Strike is a melee attack. The game mechanics, however, go out of their way to ensure that players have no incentive to use their lightsaber for any reason. Sages have only two weapon attacks and those attacks do not benefit from our main stat Willpower. This results in the unique situation of Sages (and Sorcerers) being the only class that does not use their main weapon for anything save a stat boost. This is directly LORE breaking as even the archetypal Sage and Sorcerer, Yoda and Palpatine were gifted melee combatants.

The second issue is with respect to certain animations of the Sage specifically. With the understanding that to mirror the consular and inquisitor classes, certain design choices had to be made, nevertheless many members of the Sage community question the appropriateness of two signature moves of the consular, Project and Telekinetic Throw. It is questionable whether Jedi should be using the force in this manner from a LORE perspective. Yoda tells us, “A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never to attack.” And the only force users in the movies to use telekinesis to throw items as an attack are the Sith: Darth Vader (in Ep.V), Darth Tyranus (in Ep. 2 & 3) and Darth Sidious (In Ep.3) Also, some players simply consider TK Throw particularly to be a lackluster animation that lacks the coolness factor of lightning on the Sith side – and nowhere in six movies or a host of licensed games, has debris throwing been a signature jedi move. For more information see http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=718365

The question

Will the developer do anything to ameliorate these issues? Examples include allowing Willpower to affect melee attacks; providing additional worthwhile lightsaber attacks; and offering alternate animations via the Cartel Market or otherwise (Marketing take note! ).

FEEDBACK

Skill Tax - In order to maintain any reasonable force management, Sages must spend 5 points in the Telekinetics tree. And arguably to be at their best, Seers must spend an additional 2 points to improve Force Armor. In addition, while VERY much appreciated, Egress requires an additional 7 points in the Seer tree. The Balance tree has boosts of mainstat, resistance and periodic damage boosts that are very desirable. All of this contributes to making full trees less than desirable.

Sustained damage for Balance - As discussed in the 2.7 test forums, Balance sages need some boosts in PvE to maintain comparable damage per second to other damage specs. The community encourages the developers to continue to explore ways to improve this without creating a corresponding PvP imbalance as Balance is seen as a very good PvP spec.

Pushback - Also as discussed in the 2.7 test forums, TK suffers greatly from pushback on Mind Crush and Telekinetic Throw. The developers have stated that they are considering removing pushback and the Sage community lends its approval of that idea. The concern about healers is not well founded because the undisputed best PvP healing class Scoundrel/Operatives are not limited to any significant extent by pushback while it is a great concern for Sages and Commandos.

Execute - In the Commando answers, the developers stated:

We are slowly developing away from the idea that off-healing capabilities should lower the sustained damage output of skill trees that focus on dealing damage.

But in addition to sustained damage, a damage spec needs some reasonable burst in both PvE and PvP. Base Sages have no ability that has any appreciable burst. As we move toward the new expansion and level cap, the Sage community suggests that the developers reconsider whether Sages could reasonably be granted an execute talent or ability.

Set bonuses - Finally, certain set bonuses are imbalanced between PvE and PvP. For example, the sage healer is incentivized to get the PvE mystic 2 piece (lowers the cooldown of Healing Trance), as that is our most important healing ability and at least somewhat works in the presence of bolster. Taking the PvP 4 piece bonus (Sacrifice heals 3% over 6 seconds) is widely seen as less helpful. Like wise in PvE, our Seers have an incentive to take the PvP set bonus as their 4 piece bonus (50 extra force) doesn't seem as helpful.

Our Force Masters see little need for extra range on Project and Mind Snap (4 piece PvP bonus) and so go to the Force Mystic set or likewise use PvE gear to get that 2 piece bonus. In PvE, a similar dilemma exists as the PvP 2 piece bonus (reduction in the cooldown + heal on Mind Crush) is very desirable.

My thoughts (for what it's worth)…

Egress/Fadeout Baseline

Very, very dangerous potential balance move. Very dangerous. I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but it changes a lot of balance concerns. Think about how many tools TK/Lightning would have to kite under that scheme. They already have the most slows, mezs, stuns and roots (not to mention the short knockback CD) of any ranged class, but this would also give them an anti-root mechanism on a 15 second cooldown. Given that TK/Lightning is an entirely cast-dependent spec, maybe this is fair, but still. It's a pretty dangerous suggestion.

The nice thing though is it would do a good job of countering the rampant Veng Juggs running around and Ravage-rooting everyone in sight while under stun immunity.

Survivability

Number 1 issue by far. Frankly, I think that Sage/Sorc survivability would be in a pretty good place except for the fact that all of their defensive tools are on the GCD. In order to bubble yourself, you need to take time. In order to hit Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, you need to take time. That's simply an unacceptable tradeoff in most PvE situations, and is very rarely acceptable for PvP.

My suggestion for this back on the Sage/Sorc suggestions thread was to give TK/Lightning and Balance/Madness each a talent high in their tree which removes the bubble or Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation from the GCD (only when used on yourself). The most sane arrangement is probably bubble for TK/Lightning (due to the absorb increase talent) and Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation for Balance/Madness (due to the already-tight resource management). The danger is that, with bubble off the GCD, there would be no reason not to pop it exactly as the debuff falls, effectively giving TK/Lightning a constant and substantial self-heal. Thus, it might be necessary to readjust the lockout debuff on the bubble.

Force Armor/Static Barrier and Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation are really no more powerful than Defense Screen. This would give both specs a weak defensive CD on a short cooldown that doesn't impact DPS.

Seer/Corruption survivability seems like it's in a good place right now, at least in my opinion. They're very glassy, but then so are all the healers.

Force Management

Balance/Madness needs a force management update. There's really no question about it. I mean, it's somewhat interesting that we have to choose whether or not to use Disturbance/Lightning Strike depending on our resource level, but seriously… The spec overall is very, very force negative even in PvE, where Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning is never interrupted. In PvP, it's at an almost unplayable deficit.

As for Seer/Corruption, I honestly don't think that force management needs to be changed in this tree. The Noble Sacrifice/Consumption mechanic is really unique, and it nicely counters the fact that the Seer/Corruption resource pool already enables much longer unsustainable burst healing than either of the other two healers. Taking average Noble Sacrifice/Consumption usage, Seer/Corruption has by far the highest force regeneration rate of all three of the specs, but that regeneration is entirely subject to player skill.

In PvE, the fact that health is taken away to regenerate force is simply not a problem. I watch a lot of progression boss kills, and I spend a lot of time working with my guild's sages and understanding how they play the class. I have yet to see a single instance where someone died because they life tapped too far. Nightmare Dread Guard is the closest, but even there it just didn't happen due to other constraints (specifically: time). The loss of health is directly offset by several mechanics, including but not limited to: the bubble self-heal, the free self-heal, your knockback heal, your AoE HoT, and more. I really just don't see it as a problem.

In PvP, it's another matter. Life tapping to get your force back while you're being focused is completely impossible. You just can't do it. So you heal unsustainably until you're not being focused. The problem is that, in a serious arena, you're never not being focused. Sages/Sorcs basically are set up with a force management system in their healing tree which is useless during actual PvP combat, and thus they are even more force-negative than Balance/Madness. It would be really nice if Bioware would reexamine this, hopefully in a way that doesn't reduce the skill factor associated with force management in PvE.

Skill Cap

Sages/Sorcs bring a ton of utility, both as DPS and as healers. Both DPS trees have surprisingly strong AoE DPS, at least for specs that are able to put up single-target numbers approaching gunslingers/snipers. It's the only ranged class with a gap closer (Force Speed). The stuns, mezzes, knockback, etc all provide a lot of value, even in PvE. On top of that, Sages/Sorcs provide the most sustainable off-healing in the game, which is sometimes extremely valuable. This is particularly true of the TK/Lightning spec.

So I do think there is a lot of reward in the class. However, I don't think it's quite enough that most groups are willing to consider taking a sage/sorc DPS rather than another gunslinger/sniper or a commando/merc, and that's really the true sign that something is a little off. I mean, I personally would love to swap one of my group's gunslingers for a good sage DPS (especially with the pushback fix), but I doubt many people would share that opinion.

Random

WTB Covert Tech Lightsaber

I wish to point out that any discussion of taking our self-heals (Force Armor, Force Mend) off the GCD must also apply to Seer/Corruption as well as we are even more reliant on said abilities than DPS specs. We constantly have to reposition ourselves due to being chased and of course our heals are channeled/casted so we make heavy use of our few instants. Remember, the only spec-able CC that healers get is a 20% (i.e. laughably useless) slow with weaken mind and the healers are the ones that constantly have to deal with a 3+ pain train constantly focusing and interrupting them.

Our stun doesn't do us a whole lot of good when melee knows they can use their break and there is no threat of a follow-up mez (because the mez can be interrupted).

Seer survivability is NOT fine; I abandoned 36-point seer spec with the release of 2.4 to get bubblestun back as some form of CC is REQUIRED to deal with melee in arenas and full seer just doesn't have it. We need that CC to ever get casts off with leaps, pulls (that we have no form of immunity to whatsoever, both the other healing classes do, ops have stealth and mandos have HtL) and general interrupt spam.

Don't let seer spec be the red-headed step child of sage balancing. We are far from viable in the current PVP meta as our ability to Make Them Pay (i.e. CC) is FAR behind the other two classes and our output is far easier to shut down than operatives (the kings of the current meta). We might even be inferior to mercs in output now, though it's too early to be certain.

Egress/Fadeout Baseline

 

Very, very dangerous potential balance move. Very dangerous. I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but it changes a lot of balance concerns. Think about how many tools TK/Lightning would have to kite under that scheme. They already have the most slows, mezs, stuns and roots (not to mention the short knockback CD) of any ranged class, but this would also give them an anti-root mechanism on a 15 second cooldown. Given that TK/Lightning is an entirely cast-dependent spec, maybe this is fair, but still. It's a pretty dangerous suggestion.

 

The nice thing though is it would do a good job of countering the rampant Veng Juggs running around and Ravage-rooting everyone in sight while under stun immunity.

As much as I love reading your guides and respect the work you've done for numerous classes and for the improvement of this game in general on the forums, I do not agree with you on this. At this moment in pvp it seems like all the melees (at least the popular ones) have an abundance of tools to root/mez/slow, and stop you from kiting in general. Both snipers and mercs have a kiting tool that can not be shut down (hidraulic overrides immune to movement impairing effect, sniper blink immune to everything), while sorcerers who have the least amount of survivability have also the weakest tool to get da funk out of meele range. Also Lightning is the spec that has to stand still the most out of all turret specs with the least spell pushback protection. Now that is a dangerous combination in my eyes, so as far as I can see baseline Fadeout (or at least on a very accessible place in the skill tree, meaning tier 1) is needed.

Also sniper blink definitely qualifies as a gap closer, if anyone would want to use it as one, so the sorc is not unique in that, more like the merc is the only one lacking it - kind of. Overrides are still good, only really slow in comparison to the other classes, but granting longer immunity to movement impairment.

Survivability

As far as survivability goes, I don't think it's really bad, the issue is not being able to stay away from the melee, and that is exactly what the force speed changes would address. Sorcerers do requiere a bit more babysitting from healers in raids, and once they are overrun by the melee (esp if it means 2+), they are practically dead, but I'm prety sure that's intended by design. As long as there are no oneshots from 95%+ in pve on unavoidable and intended mechanics and the class has awesome CC capability to deal with melee, the squishiness is part of the flavor.

The issue is mostly the latter, as currently there is no way Whirlwind can be used while under pressure in pvp, which is a serious concern. My idea would be bring back instant Whirlwind, but make it available through the Suppression talent in Lightning tree. That way Lightning could kite a lot better, and Assassins would not get instant Whirlwind back, which I believe was the main reason for the nerf, as our stealthy brethren had way too much contol in pvp before. Maybe Opposing Force could be changed too, so Madness could mez 3 players, since they will still have to hardcast the ability. Of course that needs to come with both talents being moved higher in the tree to avoid superCC hybrids, and it may be overpowered for Assassins. May be worth considering though.

Also the cone of Overload with the current quality of servers (Yes, I said it, the game is often lagging a lot) is not really great, I personally would very much appreciate if a reduced range (8-10 meters down from 15) full circle knockback would return, with some kind of baseline movement impairing effect, such as slow/knockdown/root. With the Electric Bindings talent possibly making it more potent for the Lightning tree after such a change.

I also love your idea of removing Static Barrier and/or Unnatural Preservation from the GCD, but I'm not sure if it's actually needed. Possibly the Static Barrier lockout debuff could be adjusted, but in that case I think it should also be changed in a way, to be exclusive to the caster. In other words another sorcerer could still put a Static Barrier on the target. In exchange a cooldown could be reintroduced to the ability. At least for DPSes anyway.

Force Management

I agree with Madness needing a force management update. I posted a few of my ideas (also: sage version) the other day, but as you pointed it out in pvp force management can be outright horrible, and my solution would only be of limited help there.

As for healing, I'm not really qualified to comment there, but I believe making Consumption more efficient through the PVP set bonus could help significantly. It's just a fairly uneducated guess though.

Skill Cap

As for the higher skill cap, I believe they meant the sorcs are not getting passive survivability stuff, so to stay alive, they very much need to kite, using CC and their environment actively. In general classes that are considered OP are always the ones that are easy to play because of a lot of passive survivability, with some easily landed, devastating moves, thus every other idiot can run arond with it, owning faces, being carried by their class. Low passive survivability, lack of defensive cooldowns and having to work hard to be able to cast for a few seconds with no interruptions SHOULD be balanced by having great mobility and CC, requiring quiete a bit of effort from the player to make it work, so there is your "higher skill level than many players are comfortable with". The issue here is that the tools granting the supposed mobility and CC currently are just not there in my eyes, so that definitely guarantees there will be few people comfortable with the skill cap.

Questions:

1) What is Tait's favourite colour?

2) What day is it?

3) Is the sky blue?

Why try harder, just look at the Sage brainstorming thread, it's all there and these things are entirely pointless.

Why try harder, just look at the Sage brainstorming thread, it's all there and these things are entirely pointless.

That's honestly a perfectly understandable take on the situation. But if we succumb to bitterness and apathy then the devs can honestly say the community doesn't care what they do.

Hello fellow sages.

I also heard its the same with the sorc side, their class representative also took a break after "L2P" and "H2F" comments. Quite sad really.

To speak about TK itself in PvE (also might be useful for PvP) ;

Sage dps overall is in a solid place. A bit behind compared to other ranges but its in an acceptable level. However there are some QoL changes that would make us more viable in operations and nightmare raiding.

1) Force Mend without GCD

2) MC without interrupts ( Okay i stopped fighting for MC, at least make turbulence %100 non-interruptable. Casting it in 3 seconds while everyone is burning the Dread Masters down just doesn't make sense. )

3) Higher RNG for momentums, at least during our Mental Alacrity burn phase.

Are just some of the changes that we discussed in the past.

Other changes that we could see in the future;

1) An execute, or no interrupts after %30.

2) More mobiility, like being able to cast disturbance while moving if you have force speed active. Perfect for positioning yourself.

3) Some more utility for force barrier. It's a skill that saved my skin countless times but i'm sure there are ways to make it a bit more useful spec wise.

I hope these make sense in any way. These are just some of the opinions that we all discussed here before in the hopes for change. Even obtaining some of these could be vital to our viability for nightmare raiding.

All the best.

Regarding an execute: how about making project / shock do more damage when the target is below 30%? I generally use project when I need to try and finish off a target in low health.

Alternatively: if people want to get some use out of their stat sticks (erm lightsabers), make an execute that involves throwing the saber, or swinging it at melee range if having a 30m execute is too strong.

OK having seen what the devs propose, what say you now Sages?

Force Barrier is getting a decent buff. The random number generator is being reigned in and we may see the rise a deadly new hybrid. Can we reasonably ask for more?

I'm thinking that the biggest buffs to Sages have been the nerfs to other classes.

OK having seen what the devs propose, what say you know Sages?

 

Force Barrier is getting a decent buff. The random number generator is being reigned in and we may see the rise a deadly new hybrid. Can we reasonably ask for more?

 

I'm thinking that the biggest buffs to Sages have been the nerfs to other classes.

I said in the sorc thread that yes it's nice to finally see any kind of buff but I really don't feel comfortable with where in our talent trees the devs have put said buffs because every single one of them is in the middle of a talent tree where hybrids can easily get it. Worse, full 36 point builds become even less desirable relative to hybrids because hybrids can access more of the new buffs than pure builds and pure builds have no new improvements high in their trees (ESPECIALLY a problem for seer as there's so much useless filler between Healing Trance and Salvation). Since the devs have an avowed anti-hybrid stance we can't be sure the buffs will actually remain for any significant length of time.

Posted this in the Sorc Thread, but thought I'd post here too:

These changes definitely look interesting and it will be interesting to see their implementation on the PTS. I have some concerns, particularly regarding Madness/Balance force management becoming an issue with some of these changes, but I'm willing to see how it is implemented.

However, these changes do not address the biggest issue DPS Sorcs/Sages face in PvE progression. DPS Sorcs/Sages have no real defensive cooldown. In Nightmare content (as we saw in TFB & S&V), there are very tight enrage timers which require maximum dps to meet. There is also a lot of "random" damage (where a raid member is targeted to take damage) and a lot of instances where there is significant AOE damage to the entire raid. In many of these cases, Sorcs/Sages take more damage than other classes simply because the damage is mitigated by armor and Sorcs/Sages have the worst armor. On top of that, every other DPS class has one or more defensive cooldown that (i) is off the Global Cooldown, (ii) cuts the damage they take and (iii) doesn't require them to stop performing their job (damaging the boss). Sorcs/Sages lack any such cooldown.

Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation does not provide any protection to damage incoming. While it can be useful for recovery, it is on the GCD (meaning some DPS loss) and it requires survival in the first place.

Force Armor/Static Barrier can mitigate some damage. But it is also on the GCD resulting in lost DPS and at least for Madness/Balance, can create force management issues. Moreover, a DPS Sorc/Sage's bubble is often inferior in terms of damage absorbed to that of a healing specced Sorc/Sage; it is often not ideal for the dps Sorc/Sage to use their own Force Armor/Static Barrier when the healer's is better.

Force Barrier is also not an acceptable defensive cooldown in PvE progression with tight enrage timers. Force Barrier essentially prevents the Sorc/Sage from doing their job (dealing damage). That lost DPS could mean hitting a hard enrage or prolonging a final burn phase that is effectively a race to beat the boss before the healers can't keep up. It is also not up anywhere near as often as the cooldowns of most other dps classes.

Sorcs/Sages need a real defensive cooldown that lets them keep performing their job in PvE progression. Otherwise they are at risk of not being desired in compared to other classes (such as Gunslingers/Snipers who just got a big buff to one of their defensive cooldowns) in PvE progression who will take less damage and have a better chance of surviving while continuing to perform their job.

Retsigam (hmd Magenta - The Shadowlands)

If it would be helpful in our upcoming questions to be more generalized, the discussion about survivability should examine BioWare's philosophy towards off-healing and the community's concerns with that approach. It appears quite clear from the last round of questions that BioWare firmly believes the off-healing potential of DPS Sage/Sorcerers is a viable and powerful survivability tool. The community's consensus following this "heal to full" answer was quite rightly negative.

It is true that off-healing has some benefit in PVP, but that's only if you can escape and line of sight players for a not so insignificant amount of time, which is not so simple with the low survivability of the class. In PVE, specifically Operations, off-healing is not a real consideration. No one brings a DPS Sage/Sorcerer in the group because of their utility to off-heal, and if you are having to take time from doing damage to heal yourself, then you are hurting the groups ability to beat enrage timers and push through difficult phases.

Furthermore, the abilities available to off-heal have no synergy with the DPS talent trees at all. A class designed with the intention of having true off-heal capability must be more than abilities that only exist in the advanced class to be buffed within the healing tree. These are left over abilities that BioWare is wrongly deeming equivalent to defensive cooldowns.

Most importantly, the consensus of the DPS Sage/Sorcerer community is largely against off-healing. These players want to deal damage, which is why they selected those specific talent trees. I imagine most DPS Sage/Sorcerers would gladly trade the two cast time heals for some additional mitigation ability.

BioWare needs to rethink its approach to off-healing and its effect on this class. Either healing abilities should be easily incorporated into a DPS tree (most likely in the form of passive healing similar to the Watchman/Annihilation class or some of the abilities available to a Discipline Priest from World of Warcraft) or these abilities should be removed in favor of a defensive cooldown that does not hinder our DPS role.

My personal problem with the Sage has always been its survivability, never the dd.

And the healing part a bit as well, as it always feels so slow ...

I said in the sorc thread that yes it's nice to finally see any kind of buff but I really don't feel comfortable with where in our talent trees the devs have put said buffs because every single one of them is in the middle of a talent tree where hybrids can easily get it. Worse, full 36 point builds become even less desirable relative to hybrids because hybrids can access more of the new buffs than pure builds and pure builds have no new improvements high in their trees (ESPECIALLY a problem for seer as there's so much useless filler between Healing Trance and Salvation). Since the devs have an avowed anti-hybrid stance we can't be sure the buffs will actually remain for any significant length of time.

Unless that hybrid is a gunslinger. I dont remember them doing anything about that.

Whoever is elected get us an execute. We do not need more survivability, I've done progression content at a world pace since 1.2 and never had issues as some of you describe with NM content.

Execute tied into shock or death field potentially look at force issues post 2.7 (is fine now in my PoV.) New rotation post 2.7 for 36 point madness looks extremely force negative however

Whoever is elected get us an execute. We do not need more survivability, I've done progression content at a world pace since 1.2 and never had issues as some of you describe with NM content.

 

 

Execute tied into shock or death field potentially look at force issues post 2.7 (is fine now in my PoV.) New rotation post 2.7 for 36 point madness looks extremely force negative however

Why do you say our rotation will be force negative? With 4 stacks of TK focal point, Disturbance should be force positive with Inner Strength.

Why do you say our rotation will be force negative? With 4 stacks of TK focal point, Disturbance should be force positive with Inner Strength.

Technically he did post that before the announced changes to telekinetic focal point. That said,

Whoever is elected get us an execute. We do not need more survivability, I've done progression content at a world pace since 1.2 and never had issues as some of you describe with NM content.

is a very narrow view to take. Not everyone plays balance and has the heal procs to keep them topped off. Also, while I havent had that problem either, I have had NiM kephess take me from full to less than 100 health with my bubble on me. And better gear was not possible at the time. A guild mate of mine was one shot by the same mechanic more than once (when we were all in mostly 72 gear still). When every other class has at least 25% health after, or even survives while not hitting a cooldown, then this is probably an issue.

Whoever is elected get us an execute. We do not need more survivability, I've done progression content at a world pace since 1.2 and never had issues as some of you describe with NM content.

 

 

Execute tied into shock or death field potentially look at force issues post 2.7 (is fine now in my PoV.) New rotation post 2.7 for 36 point madness looks extremely force negative however

A bona fide execute is probably a no-go unless they decide to give it to all classes with a heal spec. At best, we could probably see a skill that improves DoTs sub-30%. It would probably go to Balance which doesn't need the help in PvP, but I seem to recall KBN saying that it was lagging a bit in PvE.

Submitted by Dyvim:

 

Ok, here is my cut at it:

 

With the understanding that to mirror the consular and inquisitor classes, certain design choices had to be made, the question of the appropriateness of the signature moves for consular, Project and Telekinetic Throw, has repeatedly come up in the community since beta. Cinematic combat has long been a strength of this game, but there have always been some animations that are not top tier. Specifically, many players associate throwing junk at people as darkside or sith traits based on the clear examples in the movies, starting with Vader. Others simply consider Throw to be a lackluster animation that lacks the coolness factor of lightning on the Sith side – and nowhere in six movies or a host of licensed games, has debris or pebble throwing been a signature jedi move.

 

With the opportunities afforded by the Cartel Market to provide players new skins, armor, weapons, emotes, and other ways to customize their characters, are there any plans to introduce alternate animations, for purchase, so players can opt for what they consider a more powerful, jedi experience by replacing animations for project and throw?

 

Much like the alternate abilities for out of combat regeneration (carbon freezing, meditation chamber, medical bed, etc.) these would simply be alternate animations that change no stats or anything else other than appearance of the powers. They would have a slottable icon, and function identically. Of course players that like what they have would see no change.

 

It happens that there are a number of options, already in the game, that could be very popular and well received. Two jedi Sith companions, Ashara and Raina, both have powers named Force Burst that are different Force Push variants. They are in the game, look great, and would be very well suited as alternate ani’s for Project (Ashara’s) and Throw (Raina’s).

 

In addition, the community has frequently discussed the lack of lightsaber utilization by consular/sages. A saber throw, perhaps with a little more elegance and control than the knight versions, is an extremely logical alternate animation for Project. Sages already have one of the most lethal weapons in the galaxy in their hands, and yet they never throw it, as masters of telekinetics? The addition of a boomerang effect for the Upheaval proc (double junk hit), would really show off that telekinetic lightsaber control by having a quick double hit with the thrown lightsaber when proc’d.

 

There are other canon alternates available that have been discussed as well, but these three seem the most available, logical, lore based, and least taxing on dev time. When Palpatine zapped Yoda with lightning in EP3, Yoda responded with a force push. Yoda, the archetypical consular, also saber threw to take out a clone trooper in that movie.

 

One of the real strengths of the cartel market is to provide players access to things that are already in the game in some way shape or form (armor on npcs, etc.). Items the devs can deliver to the playerbase to meet a demand without a lot of additional expense…that players are happy to buy. This seems like a real opportunity to address some long standing player issues, ramp up the coolness factor of consulars, and provide revenue at the same time. Is this type of product for the playerbase something the devs would consider? Thanks.

A bona fide execute is probably a no-go unless they decide to give it to all classes with a heal spec. At best, we could probably see a skill that improves DoTs sub-30%. It would probably go to Balance which doesn't need the help in PvP, but I seem to recall KBN saying that it was lagging a bit in PvE.

Well TK is a burst spec yet Balance is behind in sustained dps, even with the bugged relic. And not just TK but the other 2 ranged sustained spec is far ahead Balance, by a large margin (dirty fightning at least 5,4% ahead, and assault is 13%)

Well TK is a burst spec yet Balance is behind in sustained dps, even with the bugged relic. And not just TK but the other 2 ranged sustained spec is far ahead Balance, by a large margin (dirty fightning at least 5,4% ahead, and assault is 13%)

Right, I am a new player so maybe I am missing something but what is the point of Balance spec?

- Balance has less survivability compared to gunslingers and commandos due to light armor and worse defensive cool downs. Balance sages usually have to use Noble Sacrifice as part of their rotation so they require even more attention from a healer.

- It does significantly less damage compared to both specs. Also, dirty fighting has an execute so will actually do even better in operations vs a dummy parse.

- It doesn't really have a lot of group utility either. Force management is very difficult so you can't Force Armor or heal anyone without destroying your damage output. Meanwhile, gunslingers have an awesome AoE dcd that can benefit the whole group and many other things.

So, if an operation has one room open for single target sustained ranged DPS, I just don't see why anyone would pick a Balance sage over a Dirty Fighting Gunslinger or an Assault Commando. (Again, I am very new so feel free to tell me why I am wrong )

Right, I am a new player so maybe I am missing something but what is the point of Balance spec?

 

PvP

Almost all instant casts, high mobility, & relative self-sufficiency. Things that aren't particularly necessary in raids, but absolutely essential in PvP.