There have been posts about striving for balance in regards to the classes and even if is possible to fully achieve balance and posts about how individual classes strengths or weaknesses should or shouldn't be examined in striving for class balance. This is not the topic of this thread.

For those that have a interest in 1 on 1 fights and disregarding a players skill, what I want discussed here and what this thread is about is simply do you think operative/scoundrel is the best 1 on 1 class and if so, would you like to see another class given a turn?

Let me remind you to stay on the thread intended topic or go make your own thread.

what I found is 2 types of players,,the good ones that can wait you out,,,or the ones who keep using the same tactics making them predictable..the moment they stun you hard,,you know they`ll come behind so be ready for that if you see the casting, as fast as you can pop your jesus button,,sometimes I make it ,sometimes I dont,,but if you get them to 75-50% health and use yours back to back you can pretty much wilter them down with the right abilities..the ones that wait you out is pretty much a guessing game,,in those cases i admit i chicken out and run back to the main grp to help with off heals,,better alive and help the others then being dead,,,

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Piter De Vries: It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion

http://www.swtor.com/r/vLPjHL

Its true that operative/scoundrels are very formidable. I've been told that they're the best 1 on 1 class and have been since the game started. I doubted this and questioned if at no time there was no better 1 on 1 class and they said that one thing for sure is for the majority of time that the game has existed its true. That's a long time.

They should give another class a turn. Does anyone have a class they think that its time for their turn?

Major nerfs to the game mechanics of stealth, op self heals, and/or op CC would be required to unseat ops as the best 1 v 1 class. Not likely to happen and maybe not possible. Because they have been good for so long, you could argue any class and spec other than op deserves some love. However, if I had to pick one, it would be rage jugg. It has been one of the squishiest, least effective PvP specs for a long time, despite wearing heavy armor and using the “balanced” lightsaber form of Shii Cho. Nothing is balanced about rage jugg in PvP IMO. Also, doesn’t make sense to me that imperial spies with blaster pistols and stealth cloaks are superior to force using Sith lords and Jedi. Most other specs have been FOTM one time or another, or at least competitive, but not rage jugg.

How you do that is another matter. Fury Mara gets cc immunity and force camo, so a new PvP oriented discipline skill is in order. One that specifically counters stealth but only for rage spec, like making chilling scream reveal stealth within 30m, but only to the jugg and not to teammates and on a 1 min CD. Or could just raise the rage jugg’s passive stealth detection level by a huge amount, like 30 or something. Because a rage jugg is using a balanced lightsaber form, imagine they are so in tune with the force that they have a heightened sense of the battlefield and can see stealthed enemies. Combined with the grit teeth tactical you could have a competitive class. Maybe need to nerf their dps a bit in exchange, but without impacting pve. Maybe you suffer - 25% dmg after revealing a stealthier for 10 sec. So you’d have tank spec be hard to kill (skank still needs a nerf to dmg though) vengeance be the best damage dealer, and rage have the most utility. All three jugg specs would bring something unique to the table. I think that would be cool.

As Ahavery said its unrealistic that ops will ever be dethroned as the best in 1v1s because of how they work.

What is more interesting is that 1v1s for all other classes are generally balanced well.

As Ahavery said its unrealistic that ops will ever be dethroned as the best in 1v1s because of how they work.

 

What is more interesting is that 1v1s for all other classes are generally balanced well.

That is interesting that all the other classes are generally balanced well. I assume that tournaments are set up then to fight their own classes including operatives because otherwise if in tournaments you fight other classes, then operatives shouldn't be allowed.

Maybe I should post a new thread with the above. Also occurred to me that while skank jugg needs to be brought in line with the other tank classes, needing its dmg may not be the best way to do it. Idk, I’m no expert. But TLDR: skank jugg needs a nerf, veng needs a buff to survivability, and rage needs a BIG buff so it is a viable alternative to veng.

Immortal is not the top 1 on 1 class. Operatives/scoudrels just dont hit them during their heal ability and roll away hotting themselves or whatever. Operatives/scoundrels kill them along with the rest.

Major nerfs to the game mechanics of stealth, op self heals, and/or op CC would be required to unseat ops as the best 1 v 1 class. Not likely to happen and maybe not possible. Because they have been good for so long, you could argue any class and spec other than op deserves some love. However, if I had to pick one, it would be rage jugg. It has been one of the squishiest, least effective PvP specs for a long time, despite wearing heavy armor and using the “balanced” lightsaber form of Shii Cho. Nothing is balanced about rage jugg in PvP IMO. Also, doesn’t make sense to me that imperial spies with blaster pistols and stealth cloaks are superior to force using Sith lords and Jedi. Most other specs have been FOTM one time or another, or at least competitive, but not rage jugg.

 

How you do that is another matter. Fury Mara gets cc immunity and force camo, so a new PvP oriented discipline skill is in order. One that specifically counters stealth but only for rage spec, like making chilling scream reveal stealth within 30m, but only to the jugg and not to teammates and on a 1 min CD. Or could just raise the rage jugg’s passive stealth detection level by a huge amount, like 30 or something. Because a rage jugg is using a balanced lightsaber form, imagine they are so in tune with the force that they have a heightened sense of the battlefield and can see stealthed enemies. Combined with the grit teeth tactical you could have a competitive class. Maybe need to nerf their dps a bit in exchange, but without impacting pve. Maybe you suffer - 25% dmg after revealing a stealthier for 10 sec. So you’d have tank spec be hard to kill (skank still needs a nerf to dmg though) vengeance be the best damage dealer, and rage have the most utility. All three jugg specs would bring something unique to the table. I think that would be cool.

Rage jug having a turn sounds like a great choice.

Maybe I should post a new thread with the above. Also occurred to me that while skank jugg needs to be brought in line with the other tank classes, needing its dmg may not be the best way to do it. Idk, I’m no expert. But TLDR: skank jugg needs a nerf, veng needs a buff to survivability, and rage needs a BIG buff so it is a viable alternative to veng.

Balancing tanks for 1v1s is the wrong approach, even more than balancing dps classes for 1v1s.

That is interesting that all the other classes are generally balanced well. I assume that tournaments are set up then to fight their own classes including operatives because otherwise if in tournaments you fight other classes, then operatives shouldn't be allowed.

What I meant is that when one class that may dominate another class (assuming players of equal skill playing the class at max potential), might lose to another class. For example sorcs might beat snipers, but get beat by powertechs, which get beat by snipers. This isn't exactly true, but is being used to demonstrate my point. There isn't one dominate class once exclude conc ops.

Major nerfs to the game mechanics of stealth, op self heals, and/or op CC would be required to unseat ops as the best 1 v 1 class. Not likely to happen and maybe not possible. Because they have been good for so long, you could argue any class and spec other than op deserves some love. However, if I had to pick one, it would be rage jugg. It has been one of the squishiest, least effective PvP specs for a long time, despite wearing heavy armor and using the “balanced” lightsaber form of Shii Cho. Nothing is balanced about rage jugg in PvP IMO. Also, doesn’t make sense to me that imperial spies with blaster pistols and stealth cloaks are superior to force using Sith lords and Jedi. Most other specs have been FOTM one time or another, or at least competitive, but not rage jugg.

 

How you do that is another matter. Fury Mara gets cc immunity and force camo, so a new PvP oriented discipline skill is in order. One that specifically counters stealth but only for rage spec, like making chilling scream reveal stealth within 30m, but only to the jugg and not to teammates and on a 1 min CD. Or could just raise the rage jugg’s passive stealth detection level by a huge amount, like 30 or something. Because a rage jugg is using a balanced lightsaber form, imagine they are so in tune with the force that they have a heightened sense of the battlefield and can see stealthed enemies. Combined with the grit teeth tactical you could have a competitive class. Maybe need to nerf their dps a bit in exchange, but without impacting pve. Maybe you suffer - 25% dmg after revealing a stealthier for 10 sec. So you’d have tank spec be hard to kill (skank still needs a nerf to dmg though) vengeance be the best damage dealer, and rage have the most utility. All three jugg specs would bring something unique to the table. I think that would be cool.

Chilling Scream revealing stealth is an interesting idea.

I would like to see rage juggs offer more. I feel like they have been passed by for many years when it comes to useful utility changes.

There have been posts about striving for balance in regards to the classes and even if is possible to fully achieve balance and posts about how individual classes strengths or weaknesses should or shouldn't be examined in striving for class balance. This is not the topic of this thread.

 

For those that have a interest in 1 on 1 fights and disregarding a players skill, what I want discussed here and what this thread is about is simply do you think operative/scoundrel is the best 1 on 1 class and if so, would you like to see another class given a turn?

 

Let me remind you to stay on the thread intended topic or go make your own thread.

Yes concealment operatives are definitely the best duelling class.

Between the stealth, heals and rolls they are an unbeatable combination in the right hands.

The rolls give them 1.5 seconds of dodge which they can use (with good timing) to dodge big hits. 1.5 secs doesn't sound like much but with an 8 second CD that's pretty good. Also their evasion can have it's CD reduced to about 30 secs and it removes dots.

Stim boost CD can be reset to effectively make it last for 30 secs now with Tactical Overdrive and with the Revitalizers Utility point it can restore 50% of health over that time while granting 20% damage reduction for the duration.

On top of this they have heals and stealth. The heals are an obvious advantage and the stealth enables them to escape before they can be finished off if their health gets low. Or they can sap you, regen then finish you off. I've lost to operatives many times like this and yeah it feels really dirty losing like this when your class can't stealth.

I've seen duelling tournaments where operatives are in a separate bracket from all other classes, even sins.

It's no shame losing a duel to a skilled operative if you're using another class. We've all been there lol