As many of you likely know, in the past we had an entry level set of PvP gear called the Recruit set. Wearing this set into a Warzone would put you at an “entry level” for PvP. However, having Recruit gear in the game created two important factors:

 

1. The player needed to know that this is how PvP at max level worked.

2. The player needed to then get the gear and actually equip it.

 

Although this may seem like something which is obvious to many of you who are more seasoned and hardcore PvPers, these factors being missed led to many players first experience being that they got completely stomped in PvP. Although we understand that there are certainly “dues to be paid” when you play PvP, they shouldn’t come right at the beginning of someone’s PvP career. We also want the Ranked population to be as high as possible within the Level 55 bracket so we have Bolster in place so more players can participate in the system.

 

The best solution for this situation was a systematic approach which puts all players on an even footing when they enter the system. We know that some feel the best solution is to simply make everyone have the same gear and stats when in PvP so that it is purely a measure skill and skill alone. However, we feel that as an MMO, gear progression is a major cornerstone of its long term gameplay. We feel that Bolster takes both of those ideas into account and lands as a nice middle ground.

 

 

Ok, this statement does not make any sense to me.

First of all, no one should start their PVP career at level 55.

 

That bracket demands a lot from players:

- Know your class well

- Know the basics of other classes

- Know the objectives of a warzone

- Pay attention to your gear

 

It is by no surprise this can not be accomplished in a few days, not even in a few weeks time for someone who has just got their first toon to level 55. Two years ago I jumped into a warzone lacking everything I listed above and it was such a great disappointment that I had not queued again until I started levelling another toon.

In the meantime, while I had been playing PVE content (including endgame), I had learnt a lot about gearing, my class and other classes as well, so when I gave PVP another chance at lower levels, I was far more prepared.

 

Do you know what happened? I started enjoying PVP and spent a lot of time playing warzones while I had been levelling. By the time I reached level 50, I had learnt the basics of warzones as well. And you know what, I switched back to my first character with that disappointing warzone experience and I no longer felt helpless, on the contrary, I was competitive even in Recruit Gear.

 

Letting players join level 55 warzones without any prerequisites or tutorial is like letting players start with nightmare mode operations. It simply should not happen. Terrible design and lack of consideration. This is the reason for all the whining on the forums and ingame insults ("bads", "noobs", "L2P", etc.), leaving frustrated beginners and veterans behind.

 

Endgame PVP is the last game mode to be experienced, you should have to walk a long way until you earn the right to enter.

You can kill (overnerf) as many skill trees as you want or Bolster PVE gear higher than best PVP gear, a new players is going to remain just as helpless for gearing is only a fraction of all the things necessary to be competitive. With Bolster you give unexperienced players a false hope they might stand a chance against veterans and when they are stomped, they start whining on the forums and suspect cheating or ask for unjustified nerfs.

That being said, while Bolster is a great thing (as a matter of fact, a must) at lower levels, it should not be applied to level 55 in its current form.

 

If you still not wish to force players to L2P before they dive into deep water, then you need to implement matchmaking. Oh, wait, that would need Cross-servers which is not going to happen, technically too challanging. Guess what, it should have been in the game from the very beginning.

 

 

Now, onto gearing in PVP. You claim you feel gear progression is a major cornerstone of the long term gameplay of an MMO. So, how exactly does this statement fit into a universe in which Bolster is present as well?

To me it seems extremely absurd to reason on the importance of gear progression when a bolstered PVE gear of any type competes or even surpasses PVP gear.

 

If Bolster is always adjusted whenever a new PVP tiers is introduced, it means I can save a lot of credits and gear grind if I stick forever to my BiS PVE gear for it is always going to be competitive.

Am I the only one to see the serious discrepancy in what you are saying and what is implemented?

 

I am not a donkey chasing a carrot (grinding PVP gear) just to see that a player with the very same PVE gear is bolstered above me again with the new patch. I have seen some interresting (what an understatement) design decisions, but Bolster as it is now raises a lot of questions regarding reasonable thinking.

 

 

If you wish to keep Bolster at level 55, you have to respect the effort of a player that has gathered a full set of previous Tier 1 PVP gear, so gear strenght should be the following:

 

1. Current Tier 2 PVP gear (+9%/+9%)

2. Current Tier 1 PVP gear (+6%/+6%)

3. Previous Tier 1 PVP gear (+3% bonus to damage/healing done / +3% damage reduction)

4. Any kind of former PVP gear / any kind of PVE gear, upon entering a warzone, gear stats are virtually replaced with the previous Tier 1 gear.

 

As for the percentages, don't forget it is quite unlikely a full Tier 2 PVPer faces 1 Vs 1 against a player with no PVP bonus at all (though in this case skill and experience is still likely to be a more important factor).

 

I would also recommend giving PVP mainhand weapons more impact on damage/healing done.

Furthermore, people should be able to exchange Tier 1 level 55 PVP gear for warzone commendations regardless of their level (still unable to equip it prior to L55).

Finally, PVP relics should not work in operation instances, we do not want PVErs to queue for warzones just to get the relics and spoil the fun of other players by doing nothing but waiting for the timer to end hoping their team would win.

 

I have learnt to deal with lack of matchmaking, X-server, skill-tree kills, bads, class inbalance, but penalizing someone for wearing PVP gear is beyond absurdity. I do not want to play in PVE gear, I do not wish to play PVE content to get the comms, nor do I want to learn how to exploit Bolster. I just want to do warzones, exchange my PVP gear, be happy about the cool looks and that's it. But knowing I am less competitive because I have PVP gear, that is something I do not wish to deal with, it is simply not worth it.

Edited April 7, 2014 by varietasplus

I couldn't agree with this more. The bolster system is so terrible and prone to exploit that it ruins the pvp experience, and for me personally has put me off on pvp gear progression entirely. Getting anything other than relics is a waste because you're going to just get mad when somebody in 45 blues melts you. With all of the room for exploit in bolster the way it is, how can the devs think this creates a more enjoyable first experience in end game pvp? Recruit gear was awesome, and I'm sorry but if somebody didn't understand that they needed to put on the free set of pvp armor that they got, to do pvp, they aren't going to figure out how to buy the Tier 1 or 2 armor to upgrade anyways, so there goes your gear progression ideal. End game pvp bolster is hands down the worst change made to this game, and I really wish that whoever made that call can put their ego aside and revert to Recruit gear (it's not like you'd have to create new gear for it either, just give people a set of the previously retired gear, i.e. a set of conqueror once the next season starts).

They just need to apply the ranked ELO system to regs. Then the noobs get matched against bads where they can cut their teeth. As they get better and win more they climb up to fight better players.

...from other side, it is so cool, when you can kill 3-4 guys on Oricon being geared into Obroan All that cheaters are dead in 3 hits, PVE gods in 5-7 hits

I've come across people in yolo queue with no gear and who admitted to never having PvP'ed before, I believe the exact quote from the last guy was "I'm still learning my class". I guess that's the players they want to cater to, the one that sets up a gear goal just to never/rarely play again, while driving away those who had a genuine interest but now are so fed up with the BS that they stopped queueing or looked for alternative games.

 

The whole industry has been heading in this direction for atleast a decade now though and the console developers are more interested in creating entertainment centers for the whole family rather than gaming platforms. Even single player is down the drain, it has reached the point where challenging solo games and/or levels, even if it is on the highest difficulty, are so rare that they're making headlines.

Edited April 7, 2014 by MidichIorian

I've come across people in yolo queue with no gear and who admitted to never having PvP'ed before, I believe the exact quote from the last guy was "I'm still learning my class". I guess that's the players they want to cater to, the one that sets up a gear goal just to never/rarely play again, while driving away those who had a genuine interest but now are so fed up with the BS that they stopped queueing or looked for alternative games.

 

I don't understand your complaint ... You're saying he should magically learn to pvp with his class before entering PvP? Yeah, it is gonna suck to be in a group with him, but as long as he is willing to learn, I don't see what the problem is. We all had to go through this transition at one point, now it is his turn. Gear is not the problem, no matchmaking is. We don't have the population for matchmaking, and cross server queues aren't financially possible for BW at this point. If you want to fix this problem so badly, sent a few million dollars to BW and ask them to specifically put that money towards cross server queues and match making.

 

The whole industry has been heading in this direction for atleast a decade now though and the console developers are more interested in creating entertainment centers for the whole family rather than gaming platforms. Even single player is down the drain, it has reached the point where challenging solo games and/or levels, even if it is on the highest difficulty, are so rare that they're making headlines.

 

I don't understand what you want again?

 

If you want a challenge for solo, do heroics.

If you want a challenge for groups do HM/NiM.

If you want a mechanics heavy challenge do Explosive Conflict NiM.

If you want a challenge for PvP, do group ranked.

If you want a challenging puzzle, do the micro-binoculars missions-which are a lot of fun btw.

 

There is a challenge for everyone in this game. The biggest challenge I've seen is getting people off their lazy asses to actually be part of a group to do any of them, instead of taking the easy way out and just skipping good content and ranked to do sm OPs and stomp pugs in regs.

I don't understand your complaint ... You're saying he should magically learn to pvp with his class before entering PvP? Yeah, it is gonna suck to be in a group with him, but as long as he is willing to learn, I don't see what the problem is. We all had to go through this transition at one point, now it is his turn. Gear is not the problem, no matchmaking is. We don't have the population for matchmaking, and cross server queues aren't financially possible for BW at this point. If you want to fix this problem so badly, sent a few million dollars to BW and ask them to specifically put that money towards cross server queues and match making.

 

 

 

I don't understand what you want again?

 

If you want a challenge for solo, do heroics.

If you want a challenge for groups do HM/NiM.

If you want a mechanics heavy challenge do Explosive Conflict NiM.

If you want a challenge for PvP, do group ranked.

If you want a challenging puzzle, do the micro-binoculars missions-which are a lot of fun btw.

 

There is a challenge for everyone in this game. The biggest challenge I've seen is getting people off their lazy asses to actually be part of a group to do any of them, instead of taking the easy way out and just skipping good content and ranked to do sm OPs and stomp pugs in regs.

 

I don't understand how this post at all counters the argument made by the person you quoted. It was simply stated that players do solo ranked because they can, not because they should. The equivalent of starting on HM Ops instead of doing FPs or SM Ops first, which appears to be the same thing you are complaining about. Being "willing to learn" in a ranked arena is not a pre-requisite. Already knowing is the pre-requisite. "Willing to learn" is important pre-55 and to a certain extent "willing to re-learn" is important in regs after 55.

 

Honestly, just put a valor limit on ranked PvP. Must have at least 1 toon in legacy at valor 60 before queuing. It ensure a base level of PvP experience prior to being able to queue for ranked. If you really want to keep people out, require valor 40 to purchase PvP gear and queue for 55 warzones. If you haven't met valor 40, you continue being placed into the 30-54 queue to prevent the stomping you'll receive as someone new entering PvP at 55.

You are right bolster solves none of the problems. But it causes some new...

 

But BioWare still believes it's a solution. But for what? And how!? BioWare is so proud of the bloster idea, they don't ask the important questions.

I don't understand how this post at all counters the argument made by the person you quoted. It was simply stated that players do solo ranked because they can, not because they should. The equivalent of starting on HM Ops instead of doing FPs or SM Ops first, which appears to be the same thing you are complaining about. Being "willing to learn" in a ranked arena is not a pre-requisite. Already knowing is the pre-requisite. "Willing to learn" is important pre-55 and to a certain extent "willing to re-learn" is important in regs after 55.

 

Honestly, just put a valor limit on ranked PvP. Must have at least 1 toon in legacy at valor 60 before queuing. It ensure a base level of PvP experience prior to being able to queue for ranked. If you really want to keep people out, require valor 40 to purchase PvP gear and queue for 55 warzones. If you haven't met valor 40, you continue being placed into the 30-54 queue to prevent the stomping you'll receive as someone new entering PvP at 55.

 

I saw no mention of ranked. If it is ranked I agree that bolster should be removed and a valor/gear check should be applied.

I don't understand your complaint ... You're saying he should magically learn to pvp with his class before entering PvP? Yeah, it is gonna suck to be in a group with him, but as long as he is willing to learn, I don't see what the problem is. We all had to go through this transition at one point, now it is his turn. Gear is not the problem, no matchmaking is. We don't have the population for matchmaking, and cross server queues aren't financially possible for BW at this point. If you want to fix this problem so badly, sent a few million dollars to BW and ask them to specifically put that money towards cross server queues and match making.

Are you aware what yolo queue is? Yolo queue is solo ranked at 55. That's not a good place to have your first PvP experience in and it's ruining it for those who are genuinely interested in working toward a rank.

I don't understand what you want again?

 

If you want a challenge for solo, do heroics.

If you want a challenge for groups do HM/NiM.

If you want a mechanics heavy challenge do Explosive Conflict NiM.

If you want a challenge for PvP, do group ranked.

If you want a challenging puzzle, do the micro-binoculars missions-which are a lot of fun btw.

 

There is a challenge for everyone in this game. The biggest challenge I've seen is getting people off their lazy asses to actually be part of a group to do any of them, instead of taking the easy way out and just skipping good content and ranked to do sm OPs and stomp pugs in regs.

The point was that the gaming has been so dumbed down that it makes people with, what i thought was, an average IQ question who it was intended for. Everything is based on the myth that equality exists. It has reached the point where I wouldnt be surprised if they got rid of max graphics settings. Because you know, it's not fair to the people on crappy hardware that someone should have a superior visual expereince. They're doing everything they can to make sure that everyone, regardless of prerequisites, has the exact same experience, ether by bringing down those who are superior or by hiding every evidence of it.

10/10

Here's the issue. With the OPs ideas that no one should start PVP at 55, you cut your pool of players. Cutting the pool of players makes the queues even longer. Bolster allows more people to participate and not get so frustrated the quit (it does require that they pay some attention, but it's not a game breaking solution like recruit gear was.) Saying you don't want bolster and don't want people to be able to start PvP when they hit 55 means you don't want a PvP community in this game. The math is simple here. It truly is. You'd be way better off to stop griping and actually try to teach new people how to play, what to do, what to wear, etc. That might actually increase the number of players.

The point was that the gaming has been so dumbed down that it makes people with, what i thought was, an average IQ question who it was intended for. Everything is based on the myth that equality exists. It has reached the point where I wouldnt be surprised if they got rid of max graphics settings. Because you know, it's not fair to the people on crappy hardware that someone should have a superior visual expereince. They're doing everything they can to make sure that everyone, regardless of prerequisites, has the exact same experience, ether by bringing down those who are superior or by hiding every evidence of it.

How long before they remove keybinds because theyre too unfair to clickers?

How long before they remove mouse-turning because its too unfair to keyboard-turners?

How long before they limit you to a 5 ability hotbar because learning to use all of a class's tools is too unfair to those who aren't capable?

 

Once I would have dismissed these questions as a lame joke without a second thought, but now I could actually imagine Bioware considering them. That's sad.

Are you aware what yolo queue is? Yolo queue is solo ranked at 55. That's not a good place to have your first PvP experience in and it's ruining it for those who are genuinely interested in working toward a rank.

 

Missed that. Yeah, I agree that ranked should have a gear and valor check (wrote the same thing above as well).

 

The point was that the gaming has been so dumbed down that it makes people with, what i thought was, an average IQ question who it was intended for. Everything is based on the myth that equality exists. It has reached the point where I wouldnt be surprised if they got rid of max graphics settings. Because you know, it's not fair to the people on crappy hardware that someone should have a superior visual expereince. They're doing everything they can to make sure that everyone, regardless of prerequisites, has the exact same experience, ether by bringing down those who are superior or by hiding every evidence of it.

 

Just because of bolster? Come on, it's not that bad. You still have to know your class, how to output maximum dps and other classes in order to counter them. There is nothing wrong with trying to create an even environmental playing field and let skill determine who wins the match. Beating someone because of gear does not mean you are more skillful, you beat him because of an artificial advantage.

People who complain there is no one in the queue and there are too may bad geared people in the queue. Don't you understand, there is not a big PVP community in this game. You need to work with the community you have. Instead of complaining, try to teach newbies what they need to do. If all these bads you complain didn't exist half of you would have your asses kicked left and right by people like LegendaryQuan . Thank us, at least we make you look good. Edited April 7, 2014 by tanerb

Here's the issue. With the OPs ideas that no one should start PVP at 55, you cut your pool of players. Cutting the pool of players makes the queues even longer. Bolster allows more people to participate and not get so frustrated the quit (it does require that they pay some attention, but it's not a game breaking solution like recruit gear was.) Saying you don't want bolster and don't want people to be able to start PvP when they hit 55 means you don't want a PvP community in this game. The math is simple here. It truly is. You'd be way better off to stop griping and actually try to teach new people how to play, what to do, what to wear, etc. That might actually increase the number of players.

here's the issue with this discussion: BW said point blank that they were keeping bolster in RATED pvp so that NEW PLAYERS wouldn't feel deterred. you got that, right? it's not an issue of simply pvp for the first time at 55. it's jumping into rated. bolster is in rated for that ridiculous, absolutely insulting reason. and that is why I unsubbed. I can't speak for anyone else, but that was the biggest line of horse crap I think I've ever read from a "professional" anything.

Edited April 7, 2014 by foxmob

here's the issue with this discussion: BW said point blank that they were keeping bolster in RATED pvp so that NEW PLAYERS wouldn't feel deterred. you got that, right? it's not an issue of simply pvp for the first time at 55. it's jumping into rated. bolster is in rated for that ridiculous, absolutely insulting reason. and that is why I unsubbed. I can't speak for anyone else, but that was the biggest line of horse crap I think I've ever read from a "professional" anything.

 

The real reason is probably they didn't want to change the codebase for ranked as it would be easier to just reuse the same one as in regs. But of course you can't officially say that

The real reason is probably they didn't want to change the codebase for ranked as it would be easier to just reuse the same one as in regs. But of course you can't officially say that

 

probably. except that's a more acceptable reason than the sheeit that musco shoveled in that faq.

Edited April 7, 2014 by foxmob

I do believe he said that you should start your PVP career at lower levels. Now if someone chooses not to and waits till they're 55 and then complains because they get owned who's fault is it?

I've come across people in yolo queue with no gear and who admitted to never having PvP'ed before, I believe the exact quote from the last guy was "I'm still learning my class". I guess that's the players they want to cater to, the one that sets up a gear goal just to never/rarely play again, while driving away those who had a genuine interest but now are so fed up with the BS that they stopped queueing or looked for alternative games.

 

 

Hey, at least they admitted it. Last night I was in a WZ with a guy who hadn't picked his AC yet...!

Yet people go ape over the fact bolster is in rank it's there because noobs will still que for it. Blocking some one from rank because you want uber competition is great gaming how? No aspect of an MMO should be off limits to any of the population they should even let free to play run all pvp period better for ques. Bolster does not stop you from being competitive in rank what you really want is under gear players getting stomped in ranks. Give it a rest bolster is here to stay move on already

The point was that the gaming has been so dumbed down that it makes people with, what i thought was, an average IQ question who it was intended for. Everything is based on the myth that equality exists. It has reached the point where I wouldnt be surprised if they got rid of max graphics settings. Because you know, it's not fair to the people on crappy hardware that someone should have a superior visual expereince. They're doing everything they can to make sure that everyone, regardless of prerequisites, has the exact same experience, ether by bringing down those who are superior or by hiding every evidence of it.

 

How long before they remove keybinds because theyre too unfair to clickers?

How long before they remove mouse-turning because its too unfair to keyboard-turners?

How long before they limit you to a 5 ability hotbar because learning to use all of a class's tools is too unfair to those who aren't capable?

 

Once I would have dismissed these questions as a lame joke without a second thought, but now I could actually imagine Bioware considering them. That's sad.

 

 

 

What kind of nonsense hyperbole is this ? There are some pretty legitimate concerns, but this ?

They create a system to facilitate PvP participation (whether it is effective or not that's another issue), and the next step is complete obliteration of the game experience just because ?

I think that there needs to be a balance between making the game accessible to new players and keeping the old ones. Recruit gear and especially bolster represent BW's attempts to bend over backwards to make pvp accessible. But, in my experience, new players do not become old players AND old players leave when force fed non-intuitive, nonsensical systems that fail to reward effort. Most new players that i tried to explain bolster to in the last few months thought I was lying to them. ALL of those that knew i wasn't were disgusted by it and most refused to use it. From what I saw it was mostly the older players that already had full obroan that used the 45s - the newer ones had conq pieces mixed with gear that didn't get bolstered well, few or no augments, and had 20% less health, less dmg, less armor and less healing for their learning experiences (learning how to lose fast but with the most medals possible).

Endgame bolster hasn't been an "oops this hasn't done everything we meant it to", it has been a dismal failure in every imaginable way. The pvp community in this game used to be much larger, much closer to the pvers in terms of who plays what. As much as anything, bolster and the bad recruit sets have been a major turnoff

I think that there needs to be a balance between making the game accessible to new players and keeping the old ones. Recruit gear and especially bolster represent BW's attempts to bend over backwards to make pvp accessible. But, in my experience, new players do not become old players AND old players leave when force fed non-intuitive, nonsensical systems that fail to reward effort. Most new players that i tried to explain bolster to in the last few months thought I was lying to them. ALL of those that knew i wasn't were disgusted by it and most refused to use it. From what I saw it was mostly the older players that already had full obroan that used the 45s - the newer ones had conq pieces mixed with gear that didn't get bolstered well, few or no augments, and had 20% less health, less dmg, less armor and less healing for their learning experiences (learning how to lose fast but with the most medals possible).

Endgame bolster hasn't been an "oops this hasn't done everything we meant it to", it has been a dismal failure in every imaginable way. The pvp community in this game used to be much larger, much closer to the pvers in terms of who plays what. As much as anything, bolster and the bad recruit sets have been a major turnoff

 

Bolster is not the problem. It may be one of the excuses people use to leave, but in reality it is a lot more than that. Lack of new content, no x-server queues, no class balance, removal of 8v8 ranked, and regular old fashion boredom were the causes of people leaving. Bolster brought in a lot more people and allowed current players to use their alts without worrying about being a burden on the team for 2 weeks.

 

Out of the 100 players I explained bolster to, maybe 5-7 listened and thanked me when they saw the results. But the other 90+ were asses or PvEers who didn't care at all. No matter what system BW implements they would be a burden on us.

 

The only thing that can save us from all of these problems is cross server queues and the ability to kick/ignore horrible players-need both. Whether bolster is here or not will not make a difference.

Bolster is not the problem. It may be one of the excuses people use to leave, but in reality it is a lot more than that. Lack of new content, no x-server queues, no class balance, removal of 8v8 ranked, and regular old fashion boredom were the causes of people leaving. Bolster brought in a lot more people and allowed current players to use their alts without worrying about being a burden on the team for 2 weeks.

 

Out of the 100 players I explained bolster to, maybe 5-7 listened and thanked me when they saw the results. But the other 90+ were asses or PvEers who didn't care at all. No matter what system BW implements they would be a burden on us.

 

The only thing that can save us from all of these problems is cross server queues and the ability to kick/ignore horrible players-need both. Whether bolster is here or not will not make a difference.

 

Bolster is not the only problem and I agree with your list of other issues. But it has removed much of the inspiration for new pvpers to become experienced ones and it has removed much of the inspiration for experienced ones to bang out a few extra wzs/day (resulting in less pvp happening). And it has made BW look very bad just because it is such a glaring and obvious mess to those that have played a bit (or read any of L-Randle's posts on the subject).