It's simple! Cancel subscription.

Two years waiting and still nothing - patience is over. I dont wanna pay for nothing and ignorance of devs. Apparently BW does not want my money.

It's simple! Cancel subscription.

Two years waiting and still nothing - patience is over. I dont wanna pay for nothing and ignorance of devs. Apparently BW does not want my money.

Commando heals is fine.

I'm hoping OP was talking about pvp dps....

Duran'del here:

Commandos are actually pretty good in PvP as healers. I've been doing extremely well in almost full Campaign year for both 8v8s and Arenas. A tip is to platoon yourself in a safe area and stay at max range while the enemies deep around. Self trauma Probe is also a good idea, along with interrupt immunity while RS is active.

Sure, I can't get a lot of numbers on the healing leaderboard, but I've still gotten a few MVP votes.

Commando heals is fine.

 

I'm hoping OP was talking about pvp dps....

Lol.

These changes were nice, and a welcome start to bringing us up to a competitive level. But we are still overly dependent on casting heals to support teammates (our instants will not outheal burst from even 2 players focusing), and with the abundance of ways for casts to be canceled, 1 ability (which is easily countered) on a very long cooldown is not enough to make us truly competitive with Scoundrel healing.

Not to mention our ammo management did not get any help with this patch, and Commando healing is the worst by far of the 3 classes as far as resource management goes.

Not to mention our ammo management did not get any help with this patch, and Commando healing is the worst by far of the 3 classes as far as resource management goes.

Ammo management is fine, if you manage your ammo. Just because other classes do not have to manage their ammo at all, doesn't make ours less manageable. It just means you have to manage it. I do not understand why people keep crying about this.

These changes were nice, and a welcome start to bringing us up to a competitive level.

I never said they were better than either of the other classes. If you want to scream for buffs to be the next OP class, then that's up to you. If you want to BE the OP flavor of the month, roll a scoundrel.

Isn't being competitive what its all about. I would be ok to take an escape of some kind but thats about it.

As i said, mando heals are fine.

Ammo management is fine, if you manage your ammo. Just because other classes do not have to manage their ammo at all, doesn't make ours less manageable. It just means you have to manage it. I do not understand why people keep crying about this.

Probably because you're an idiotic troll who keeps trying to take part in conversations meant for grown ups. Ammo management is tight, and unforgiving. A problem in CM, a BIG problem in Gunnery. You can keep saying the word manage all you like, it doesn't make those facts not so.

Ammo management is fine, if you manage your ammo. Just because other classes do not have to manage their ammo at all, doesn't make ours less manageable. It just means you have to manage it. I do not understand why people keep crying about this.

 

 

 

I never said they were better than either of the other classes. If you want to scream for buffs to be the next OP class, then that's up to you. If you want to BE the OP flavor of the month, roll a scoundrel.

 

Isn't being competitive what its all about. I would be ok to take an escape of some kind but thats about it.

 

As i said, mando heals are fine.

I am tired of repeating myself hundreds of times. Educate yourself.

I'm just going to copy paste what I said in another thread.

"I don't know how many of you guys can say this is not an improvement.

I haven't done any ops yet, but I've done a few warzones, and I came out top heals on all of them, and reached my highest ever of 1.5M. On par with scoundrels? Well, there was a warzone with another scoundrel and we both did around 1.2M but I came out on top. Not stacking? There was another commando in two of the warzones, and I did 1.2M on each (highest heals again), so it's all about healing properly.

Though I must admit that I've always been a way above average Commando healer, now I'm simply OP, lol."

Although getting that high does definitely become a very prominent issue if you have 3 commando healers. It happened, and I wanted to cry - the one trauma probe per person restriction is there for a reason I suppose, else it would be way OP.

Lol... mando heals are OP?

We're still lacking a lot ****.

Cover a raid with probes then respec to dps and get no dps loss when taking damage.

I can live with that.

Combat Shield 1/1 point in medic tree grants immuity against interrupts. Maybe also grant immunity against CC or maybe 50% chance? Would this be OP or balanced? No need for sarcasm because im not sure about this. Its just a honest question.

Yes, but that only lasts about 12s, and static shield has a 2m CD; and no, it does not grant immunity to cc, unless you hit 'hold the line' for knockbacks, but you're still vulnerable to stuns.

Hell, if we didn't have that, mando healers would be unplayable.

Probably because you're an idiotic troll who keeps trying to take part in conversations meant for grown ups. Ammo management is tight, and unforgiving. A problem in CM, a BIG problem in Gunnery. You can keep saying the word manage all you like, it doesn't make those facts not so.

Lol, thats a bit harsh.... idiotic troll, nice one. Anyway enough of the mature name calling, this is an adult conversation right?

Ammo management is tight, yes, thats what makes it challenging. Why do you want to be able to face roll the keyboard without the slightest concern for ammo management. That takes away the skill. It is tight and it is unforgiving and thats one of the reasons i like my mando healer.

BIGGER problem in gunnery, yes. I don't play any dps commando spec and have never pretended otherwise.

You're right though, i must have been having a bad day yesterday and i took the bait when i saw YET ANOTHER post crying *sniff, sniff* my mando needs help. I just get sick and tired of reading all the whining about "buff me please, we are useless.....". It ruins the game in my mind. Everyone wants to nerf/buff the game into oblivion!! Generally speaking its all the whiners that make the most noise and are eventually listened too.

Healers and tanks are relatively balanced, imo. Perfect, no. Balanced within reason, yes. Nothing a few QoL tweaks won't fix. Something that the latest patch has addressed and i think the small changes are a step in the right direction for mando healers. An escape for us, similar to force speed or roll + stealth etc on a low cooldown, would be another small change in the right direction.

You don't have to agree and i'll bite my tongue next time i read another post like this.

As you were, continue on.

Lol, thats a bit harsh.... idiotic troll, nice one. Anyway enough of the mature name calling, this is an adult conversation right?

 

Ammo management is tight, yes, thats what makes it challenging. Why do you want to be able to face roll the keyboard without the slightest concern for ammo management. That takes away the skill. It is tight and it is unforgiving and thats one of the reasons i like my mando healer.

 

BIGGER problem in gunnery, yes. I don't play any dps commando spec and have never pretended otherwise.

 

You're right though, i must have been having a bad day yesterday and i took the bait when i saw YET ANOTHER post crying *sniff, sniff* my mando needs help. I just get sick and tired of reading all the whining about "buff me please, we are useless.....". It ruins the game in my mind. Everyone wants to nerf/buff the game into oblivion!! Generally speaking its all the whiners that make the most noise and are eventually listened too.

 

Healers and tanks are relatively balanced, imo. Perfect, no. Balanced within reason, yes. Nothing a few QoL tweaks won't fix. Something that the latest patch has addressed and i think the small changes are a step in the right direction for mando healers. An escape for us, similar to force speed or roll + stealth etc on a low cooldown, would be another small change in the right direction.

 

You don't have to agree and i'll bite my tongue next time i read another post like this.

 

As you were, continue on.

Well for my part I apologize. I think I may have mistaken you for someone from the PTS who brought the same L2P play line. Unless you are the same guy, in which case I sorta have to stand by what I said.

Anyway, I think you'll find that with easier ammo management, the skill of the class won't exactly go away. There's more to playing Commando properly than ammo management. What I, and others, find annoying is when it feels like ammo management dominates everything else. It provides an artificial ceiling to what can be done with the class.

For my part I'm not asking for a huge buff even to gunnery. Change Cell Charger slightly to mirror the VG version (which gives the same amount of ammo per time frame, but delivers it in smaller more frequent chunks of 2 ammo per GCD instead of 8 ammo every 4 GCDs). As well, change the CoF proc to make it more reliable. I would actually wonder quite a lot about changing it to be something similar to the recent changes to the Jugg/Guardian proc in Veng/Vig. Basically turn CoF into a stacking buff (1 stack per GR, DR, and HiB use), and everytime you get 3-4 stacks the cooldown on FA is automatically finished and deals the increased damage (arguably make it uninterruptable and immune to pushback for PVP). Maybe play around with it also refunding 8 ammo, but I doubt even that would be needed. Just having a more consistent Full Auto like that (note that this slightly increases the rate limit as per the Jugg change), would do wonders for Gunnery Ammo management.

I can sort of understand your frustration, but there are people asking for what amounts to those small QoL buffs that are perfectly reasonable.

Well for my part I apologize. I think I may have mistaken you for someone from the PTS who brought the same L2P play line. Unless you are the same guy, in which case I sorta have to stand by what I said.

 

I can sort of understand your frustration, but there are people asking for what amounts to those small QoL buffs that are perfectly reasonable.

Different guy. I haven't been on the pts since pre 2.0 and they killed my shadow dps......

If you look at my first post i was simply replying to the guy rage quitting/unsubbing because he feels, quite passionately, that we are that far behind he can not possibly continue playing on and then went on to insult the dev team. Warranted or not, this type of thing drives me insane. Then i was "lol'd" by our "class representative" and i guess it escalated.....

I get defensive about my mando, because i enjoy playing on him. I'd prolly be more happy if they left my mando healer alone and brought scoundrels back into line and on par as far as output goes. I agree and get frustrated with all the casting and interrupting but sages have the same problems, difference being they have a 20sec useful escape that helps to no end. Give us something similar, bring the output of scoundrels back a small amount and i think we would have fair and balanced pvp/pve healing classes. I don't think it needs to be as difficult as what a lot of the threads lead you to believe.

I can't talk of your dps issues as i've never dps'd on my mando. I have a tk sage, so i assume its somewhat similar, and i can't handle pvp on him as dps. So i don't..... I know that doesn't help, so i'll stay out of it.

An intelligent and constructive discussion about class balance, i'd be happy to read. Occasionally you find these types of threads.

Cover a raid with probes then respec to dps and get no dps loss when taking damage.

 

I can live with that.

You could also get Kell dragon damage and heal proc relics, and have a ridiculous burst for the first min or so of every fight due to a double proc.

Was this recent patch a buff? Yes. Was it a step in the right direction for our viability in PvP? Yes.

Does it make us competitive at the highest level of PvP? No.

Bottomline is that we are still overly dependent on casting to heal. And in Arenas you are not going to be given the opportunity to get those casts off in a reliable manner outside of 15s every 2 minutes.

In an environment where your cast can be cancelled by a stun, a knockback, a leap, *and* and interrupt, any class or spec dependent on casts/channels is never going to be a better option over those that are less dependent on casts/channels.

I did about 10 WZs yesterday as a healer. I noticed very little change in overall output and ability to keep myself alive w/out help from teammates. Hammershot heal-self is nice, but if youre depending on that to keep you alive while kiting and taking damage, youre going to die. Group wide Trauma Probe is a notable improvement, and helps managing group-wide damage from AOEs.

Was my healing good? Sure, of those WZs the best HPS I had was 1.8k and I averaged about 1.5k. I was able to keep teammates and myself alive easily for the most part, but as soon as multiple enemies focus me, if I do not get help via Guard, Taunts, or any kind of peel from a teammate, Im going to die. It was that way before the patch, and it is still that way.

We just do not have the right set of tools to be competitive healers at a high level of PvP. And that set of tools does not include more pushback resistance (DEVS IM TALKING TO YOU); it includes a deeper integration of Tech Override into the basic mechanics of the class, and as a result a more reliable way to get off casts in an environment where doing so normally would be impossible.

Different guy. I haven't been on the pts since pre 2.0 and they killed my shadow dps......

 

If you look at my first post i was simply replying to the guy rage quitting/unsubbing because he feels, quite passionately, that we are that far behind he can not possibly continue playing on and then went on to insult the dev team. Warranted or not, this type of thing drives me insane. Then i was "lol'd" by our "class representative" and i guess it escalated.....

 

I get defensive about my mando, because i enjoy playing on him. I'd prolly be more happy if they left my mando healer alone and brought scoundrels back into line and on par as far as output goes. I agree and get frustrated with all the casting and interrupting but sages have the same problems, difference being they have a 20sec useful escape that helps to no end. Give us something similar, bring the output of scoundrels back a small amount and i think we would have fair and balanced pvp/pve healing classes. I don't think it needs to be as difficult as what a lot of the threads lead you to believe.

 

I can't talk of your dps issues as i've never dps'd on my mando. I have a tk sage, so i assume its somewhat similar, and i can't handle pvp on him as dps. So i don't..... I know that doesn't help, so i'll stay out of it.

 

An intelligent and constructive discussion about class balance, i'd be happy to read. Occasionally you find these types of threads.

Well in that case I apologize for sure.

I was only replying to you replying to cash. And downing on the devs is good therapy at this point.

TK sage is a pretty different animal from Gunnery commando in a lot of ways, but honestly I'm not much of a PvPer at all these days. For PVE these changes were fantastic.

I for one am not quite feeling the re-arrangement of the CM skill tree.

It feels lackluster and forced into taking some talents that I just don't think I benefit from just to fill the tree and missing some talents that were there before. I did notice that some talents seem to have been reduced from 2 points to 1, otherwise I wouldn't have taken some talents.

The mechanical adjustments in terms of self hammershot heals and multiprobe drop on groups however was a big improvement.

As for the pushback, step in the right direction but it doesn't change the fact casting is dead with all the CC.

B for effort. Let's hope they do something more next time. And that next time is within 2 months.

Anti pushback is really nice, can reliably point blank a melee when they're done with or forget to interrupt without the cast juddering about wasting my time and health.

Ofc interrupts are still a galactic abomination in the path of any commando but it's better.

Just wanted to chime in with my two cents regarding commando healing in pve and pvp since that's what I play.

In pve the Trauma Probe buff is amazing I was testing it out in DF/DP 8man HM and both me and my scoundrel compatriot could swear that on some of the bosses it was like having a 3rd healer in there. Also note that with Trauma Probes going off all over the raid you almost have a 100% up time on First Responder. Now Hammer shot healing yourself is also nice, it saves you from having to waste an Advanced Medical Probe or Bacta Infusion cooldown on yourself, before the buff the the most awkward person to heal in the raid was yourself. Removing the need to spec into Frontline Medic was really good aswell because now you can get both Kolto Wave and Treated Wound Dressings. So overall I'm pretty happy with the buffs I feel like Commandos are one step closer to becoming true contenders in pve healing, what we still lack however is an "oh shi-" heal to bring someone back from the brink akin to Scoundrels Emergency Medpac.

So pvp- oh boy pvp- good god pvp- ahem yes. Trauma Probing your team does help abit. And yes taking melee dps for a run around the block with Hold the Line and Hammer shot healing yourself does sort of work if you're out gearing your enemy and usually only if there is just one of them chasing you sooo "meh". The biggest problem which was not touched on is of course still our extreme vulnerability to interrupts. The only real defense I've come up with is popping Hold the Line and Reactive Shield (with Combat Shield) which affords you a measly few seconds to go about your healing buisness, after that well you're kind of up the creek without a paddle.

TLDR: PVE healing is better but still abit lacking. PVP healing is about the same.

Was this recent patch a buff? Yes. Was it a step in the right direction for our viability in PvP? Yes.

Does it make us competitive at the highest level of PvP? No.

 

Bottomline is that we are still overly dependent on casting to heal. And in Arenas you are not going to be given the opportunity to get those casts off in a reliable manner outside of 15s every 2 minutes.

 

In an environment where your cast can be cancelled by a stun, a knockback, a leap, *and* and interrupt, any class or spec dependent on casts/channels is never going to be a better option over those that are less dependent on casts/channels.

 

I did about 10 WZs yesterday as a healer. I noticed very little change in overall output and ability to keep myself alive w/out help from teammates. Hammershot heal-self is nice, but if youre depending on that to keep you alive while kiting and taking damage, youre going to die. Group wide Trauma Probe is a notable improvement, and helps managing group-wide damage from AOEs.

 

Was my healing good? Sure, of those WZs the best HPS I had was 1.8k and I averaged about 1.5k. I was able to keep teammates and myself alive easily for the most part, but as soon as multiple enemies focus me, if I do not get help via Guard, Taunts, or any kind of peel from a teammate, Im going to die. It was that way before the patch, and it is still that way.

 

We just do not have the right set of tools to be competitive healers at a high level of PvP. And that set of tools does not include more pushback resistance (DEVS IM TALKING TO YOU); it includes a deeper integration of Tech Override into the basic mechanics of the class, and as a result a more reliable way to get off casts in an environment where doing so normally would be impossible.

If multiple enemies focus you, and you don't get help, you should go down rather quickly. Its what makes focus fire essential. I mean, what do you expect, to drag 3 dps around a map healing as you please? Come on now...