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Commando/Mercenary needs major defensive nerfs and all knows it

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Commando/Mercenary needs major defensive nerfs and all knows it

Duco's Avatar


Duco
12.06.2017 , 09:53 AM | #1
Yes i cannot wait i want to remind you:
Quote:
Lastly, you might also wonder why there are not more changes to utilities and survivability for damage dealers in 5.3, and that is a fair question. We are first focusing on the damage and healing output for all Classes before getting too carried away with utility changes. This is because opinions about where a given Discipline stands among the pack can be clouded by high or low damage or healing output without anyone even realizing it. That is not to say we won’t tweak a utility here or there, but before we go making massive changes to a class’s utility toolkit, we want to make sure the damage or healing they can put out is on target and relatively similar to other Disciplines in their grouping. Once we are happy with the damage output, we can start adjusting utilities to give those that need it a boost and others that are too powerful a reduction.
You guys have too much stuff like way more than others and it's quite frankly unfair.

You can go on you and just whail away use good rotation, use your defensive cd's well and still if you use yours even half decent you will barely be taking damage for long enough to make others have to flee because they run out of cooldowns to deal with you and all the while you are just doing massive damage yourself.

I'll give an example of how you just have more than others.

Assassin for example got their utility changed that, i think before it gave assassins 30% damage reduction when stunned, and they took the 30% aoe damage reduction from one specc and merged the two into one utility that now if you are tank specc reduces 30% damage when stunned or dps specc 30% aoe reduction. Meanwhile you have a talent that gives both 30% aoe and 30% while stunned reduction. And they didn't even have to nerf a specc to give you this more powerful version.

This is an example of how lame overpowered your utilities are, the 70% heal one its max retarded too. Take a look at your utility lists and it's many there with too big advantages that have been nerfed for other classes when they had so much power. You are having way too much overpowered **** compared to others, best tanking for ranged burst class etc things don't add up.

And I for one cannot wait till you get butchered. "Butchered", pff, it will just be made to be as powerful as others and not get too many unfair advantages.

Oh yes it will be good.
"Terror will flay your mind, making your frame flee. Fear will freeze both mind and body from action."

Martin's Avatar


Martin
12.06.2017 , 11:04 AM | #2
They did nerf the DCD, like ... last week.

Kolto heals up to 60% instead of 70%. Trauma regulator heals your of 40% health max, instead of 75% (iirc).

So yeah, mercs got the nerf.

It's still at a good place tho, but it's definetly killable if you're not derp (clue: Aoe is your friend when shield & reflect).
<Nekawa> - Jedi Covenant

DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
12.06.2017 , 11:15 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Martin View Post
They did nerf the DCD, like ... last week.

Kolto heals up to 60% instead of 70%. Trauma regulator heals your of 40% health max, instead of 75% (iirc).

So yeah, mercs got the nerf.

It's still at a good place tho, but it's definetly killable if you're not derp (clue: Aoe is your friend when shield & reflect).
The issue is they have too many good DCDs. It's been like this since 5.0, three dcd's in conjunction with the 2 stack tech resistance spaced out makes them still really hard to take down. In regs, the 40% heal may be a nerf if no healer is around to heal them, otherwise literally nothing has changed. Mercs still need to take about 380k+ damage before your finally in there "killzone" which is completely absurd for a range dps class. BW in true fashion, nerfed the wrong spots and the changes have done nothing (for ranked atleast, they are slightly weaker in regs).
server: The Hot Prospect (10/4/2017 #NEVERFORGET)
Characters: Olivia Munn / Rashida Jones / Alicia Keys / Denzel Washington

Turn-XGundam's Avatar


Turn-XGundam
12.06.2017 , 11:37 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DenariusJay View Post
The issue is they have too many good DCDs. It's been like this since 5.0, three dcd's in conjunction with the 2 stack tech resistance spaced out makes them still really hard to take down. In regs, the 40% heal may be a nerf if no healer is around to heal them, otherwise literally nothing has changed. Mercs still need to take about 380k+ damage before your finally in there "killzone" which is completely absurd for a range dps class. BW in true fashion, nerfed the wrong spots and the changes have done nothing (for ranked atleast, they are slightly weaker in regs).
going by that logic mara/snipers have op dcds as well, this class was a joke in the past, easily interrupt able and killed.

lacked the utility of other rdps classes, now they are able to out last them while still having less utility.

only thing i'll admit is broken with mercs/commandos is blazing bolt/boltstream hitting much harder then it should be for, but thats a bug.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
12.06.2017 , 11:39 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Martin View Post
They did nerf the DCD, like ... last week.

Kolto heals up to 60% instead of 70%. Trauma regulator heals your of 40% health max, instead of 75% (iirc).

So yeah, mercs got the nerf.

It's still at a good place tho, but it's definetly killable if you're not derp (clue: Aoe is your friend when shield & reflect).
"Mercenary

Trauma Regulators now heals for 4% per stack instead of 5% and stacks 10 times instead of 15
The heal from Kolto Overload given by Kolto Surge can only heal the Mercenary up to 60% of their maximum health instead of 70%
Trauma Regulators is a now a Heroic utility and Kolto Surge is now a Legendary utility"


It's a technical nerf. Their superiority [as well as Snipers] is unaffected in the practical sense. They still have spam able self heals that they can use to heal themselves to full when they have their reflect's up even if no one s attacking them at the time to avoid healing them. So whether or not an enemy hit's them while the reflect is on, they're still healing to full. Recommendations not to attack them while the reflect is up is nothing more than a smokescreen to make it seem like it's an enemies fault if they heal and to deflect from the OP state of mercs. Even if they do not spam their self heals it doesn't change the fact that it gives them 6 seconds to light your *** up free and clear in any situation where breaking LOS is not a reasonable or possible option which is more often than not the case. Given that they can spec into multiple slows, it is almost assured that they can keep many enemies from having any chance of breaking LOS and resolve is not effected in the slightest by slows. You can technically be slowed indefinitely. No DPS spec should heal potentials anywhere near that especially when there are some DPS specs with very small heals and in one case no baseline heals at all and do not have the advantage is range which is a much bigger advantage in PVP than it may represent in PVE.

Regarding "AOEs being your friends", most AOEs require resources and unless I'm mistaken in most cases resources are gained by attacking. So using Marauders or Juggs as an example, unless they are attacking they cannot gain resources to use said AOES if they cannot attack the merc. Another smoke screen recommended strategy that isn't often plausible.

Add to that they are effected by the set bonus bug and are doing ridiculous amounts of DPS again too boot, they are as bad as they were day one of 5.0. That slight nerf to their already over tuned heals is compensated by the increased DPS they have gained by said bug since 5.6. Compared to what certain other specs got changed in 5.6, the Merc and Sniper nerfs they received are a slap on the wrist. While I'd put Sniper above Merc as the Alpha class, "OP" still applies to Merc.

Martin's Avatar


Martin
12.06.2017 , 03:25 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
[COLOR="Yellow"]
Regarding "AOEs being your friends", most AOEs require resources and unless I'm mistaken in most cases resources are gained by attacking. So using Marauders or Juggs as an example, unless they are attacking they cannot gain resources to use said AOES if they cannot attack the merc. Another smoke screen recommended strategy that isn't often plausible.
Not sure if you're serious our just trying to troll with that one. I've been playing my jugg a lot in pvp lately, and this is exactly what I do, and I've killed countless mercs/mandos that were hoping their reflect or energy shield would save their butt. Vengeful slam + sweeping slash (also dots keep ticking). And if he keeps attacking, it's free energy (if you don't have enrage up).

The only problem with the dcd in pvp might be the kolto overload to 60%, as you can't do anything about it except to wait until it's over. Make it 35% like the PTs, and the reflect + trauma regulators are fine, cause you can actually do something while they're up.

Or they could listen to you guys, and nerf the class to the ground, and render it useless in pvp like it was in 4.0.
<Nekawa> - Jedi Covenant

Uebli's Avatar


Uebli
12.06.2017 , 04:26 PM | #7
sooo true, the last nerf change nothing ..see often mercs / commandos wich stay alone against 4 others longer then any tank !! as dd !!
in 4 vs 4 without healer the last class wich is alive is merc / com !!

and exactly because of this class disbalance and no changes over years the next 4 players i know , quit the game after 5.6.

BW will not see this disbalance ... dont know the reason !? But everyone see this and know this.

5.6 is an *** kick for the other classes again, so dont wonder that more and more players stop !

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
12.06.2017 , 05:50 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Martin View Post
Not sure if you're serious our just trying to troll with that one. I've been playing my jugg a lot in pvp lately, and this is exactly what I do, and I've killed countless mercs/mandos that were hoping their reflect or energy shield would save their butt. Vengeful slam + sweeping slash (also dots keep ticking). And if he keeps attacking, it's free energy (if you don't have enrage up).

The only problem with the dcd in pvp might be the kolto overload to 60%, as you can't do anything about it except to wait until it's over. Make it 35% like the PTs, and the reflect + trauma regulators are fine, cause you can actually do something while they're up.

Or they could listen to you guys, and nerf the class to the ground, and render it useless in pvp like it was in 4.0.
What I said was if you don't have the resources to use your AOE the only way to get resources is to hit the merc which defeat's the purpose of the tactic. Besides, a couple of sweeping slashes aren't going to do much damage. If you are a spec like Fury who's Beserk gives them resources, than yeah, that's more viable, but if the only way you have to build resources is by attacking and you don't have any or much resources at the time, your sht out of luck. Not every spec has dot's btw, mine doesn't.

You are trying to keep Merc's OP it seems.

I just got out of WZ where three people were attacking the same Merc who didn't have his reflect shield up. It was right out of the gate so I had bloodthirst going and I used a Ferocity window on him with three attacks, the first attack did 28k, the second did 30k and the 3rd did 32k, in three seconds and that's not counting how ever much damage the other people were doing which I can't say obviously. He was stunned for a few seconds of that as well, all three were him for I'd estimate a good 10-12 seconds. Not only did he not die, when all was said and done, he still had half his health which leaped up to full health about three seconds after that.

Merc's are one of the few classes that actually deserves to get nerfed. What they got was a slap on the wrist.

There are good and bad players of every class and spec in the game. I've globaled mercs and snipers at times, but the only mercs and snipers that happens with, are the ones that either don't know what they are doing, are new, or didn't use their DCDs.

Those mercs you killed using the attack pattern you stated, they were bad mercs who didn't know what they were doing. A merc who knows what they are doing and uses their DCDs correctly, is not dieing from what you were using.

Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
12.07.2017 , 05:30 AM | #9
I wouldn't call it ridiculous amounts of dps - it's still about 5 percent less sustain than before. It's basically halfway between the terrible spot it was in since July and the OP spot it was in before then.
Hoppin, The Cutest Mercenary <Death Smile>
Hoppinator/Cutest Mercenary (Merc), Hoppin (Sorc), Hopposites (Mara), Hoptimal (Sin)
Hopalicious (Jugg), Hopperative (Operative), Hoptimize (PT)

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
12.07.2017 , 08:47 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Merc's are one of the few classes that actually deserves to get nerfed. What they got was a slap on the wrist.

There are good and bad players of every class and spec in the game. I've globaled mercs and snipers at times, but the only mercs and snipers that happens with, are the ones that either don't know what they are doing, are new, or didn't use their DCDs.
While I happen to agree by and large, I will that if they give mercs the defensive nerfs to the extent we're requesting they really should give them some of their damage back. As it stands right now, with proper interrupting, mercs really aren't terrible to shut down offensively. It's their sheer survivability that makes them troublesome.