So, I just recently came back to ToR from a WoW excursion (though, technically, I had active accounts in each).

 

How are the new raids? Coming from WoW, I was pretty disappointed with EV/KP, given how quickly we cleared them on HM (opening night for KP, blah). I've only done SM S&V and TFB and I did those months ago once just to see it, so I can't really speak to the difficulty of those two.

 

Comparatively, how hard are the new raids in comparison to say, SoO or ToT in WoW?

 

I'm mainly just curious if it's worth getting back into the raiding scene.

 

Thanks for your time.

Nightmare difficulty for any ops will require a very coordinated/geared/skilled group to complete. I'd say the difficulty of the content available is pretty satisfying. Some necessitate you to bang your head against the wall for many night the first time around if that's any indication.

The HMs will still take the heads off uncoordinated groups and give good groups focus to clear. NiM is still the 2%ers club, at least for the current 55s.

NiM content is definitely where it is at. Even NiM EC is still next to impossible to complete without a coordinated group and it is a level 50 Operation. HM Dread Fortress and Dread Palace are interesting but, with a good group, only take about an hour and a half to down completely for each operation. NiM DF releases shortly and promises to require an excellent level of skill to complete it.

I haven't played WoW, so I can't give you a direct comparison to those operations.

 

Over the past year I would say that the developers have evolved the level of difficulty that they have built into the operations content. Whereas EV and KP nightmare mode can be cleared by anyone, some of the newest hard mode, and especially nightmare mode versions of operations feel like they will never be able to be cleared by the typical PUG, even when they are five gear tiers beyond the requirement.

 

I'll give you a breakdown of where the operations fall in difficulty. This breakdown is, of course, just my opinion. It also relies on three assumptions. 1) You are a skilled player who was clearing difficult WoW operations. 2) Your SWTOR operations team is also very skilled, not "facerolling everything in their sleep amazing," just very skilled. 3) Your team has The Dread Fortress (HM) and The Dread Palace (HM) on farm and are working on gearing up to full BiS 78s, the highest gear tier currently in the game.

 

Coma inducing

Eternity Vault: SM, HM, NM

Karagga's Palace: SM, HM, NM

Explosive Conflict: SM, HM

Terror From Beyond: SM

Scum and Villainy: SM

The Dread Fortress: SM

The Dread Palace: SM

Dreadtooth 1-stack / 3-stack (Step 1 for secret bosses)

 

Outside chance of a wipe

Terror From Beyond: HM

Scum and Villainy: HM

Dreadtooth 10-stack (Step 2 for secret bosses)

 

Need to pay attention during farming

The Dread Fortress: HM

The Dread Palace: HM

The Dreadful Entity (first secret boss)

 

Wipe if key mechanic missed

Explosive Conflict: NM

 

Actual progression content

Terror From Beyond: NM

Scum and Villainy: NM

The Dread Fortress: NM (April 8)

The Dread Palace: NM (June 10)

The Hateful Entity (second secret boss)

 

In my experience, while the absolute top progression teams have completed their work on TFB and S&V nightmare mode, including timed title runs, the vast majority of progression teams either have not fully cleared those two operations, or even cleared them beyond the first boss of each.

 

TFB and S&V nightmare mode were the cutting edge progression content before 78s were released in DF and DP hard mode. Logically, teams immediately moved on to trying to get the new hard mode operations on farm for 78 gear. The majority have still not circled back to clear the preceding nightmare content, and many have no plans to do so.

 

Personally, I have recently cleared TFB (NM) and I am on the last two bosses of S&V (NM). Even with a team in, essentially, full BiS 78s, these nightmare operations are a very satisfying challenge. Story mode and hard mode S&V are total snooze-fests, to the point that S&V seems to be a lot of people's most hated operation, but the nightmare version really is pretty thrilling to work through.

I haven't played WoW, so I can't give you a direct comparison to those operations.

 

Over the past year I would say that the developers have evolved the level of difficulty that they have built into the operations content. Whereas EV and KP nightmare mode can be cleared by anyone, some of the newest hard mode, and especially nightmare mode versions of operations feel like they will never be able to be cleared by the typical PUG, even when they are five gear tiers beyond the requirement.

 

I'll give you a breakdown of where the operations fall in difficulty. This breakdown is, of course, just my opinion. It also relies on three assumptions. 1) You are a skilled player who was clearing difficult WoW operations. 2) Your SWTOR operations team is also very skilled, not "facerolling everything in their sleep amazing," just very skilled. 3) Your team has The Dread Fortress (HM) and The Dread Palace (HM) on farm and are working on gearing up to full BiS 78s, the highest gear tier currently in the game.

 

Coma inducing

Eternity Vault: SM, HM, NM

Karagga's Palace: SM, HM, NM

Explosive Conflict: SM, HM

Terror From Beyond: SM

Scum and Villainy: SM

The Dread Fortress: SM

The Dread Palace: SM

Dreadtooth 1-stack / 3-stack (Step 1 for secret bosses)

 

Outside chance of a wipe

Terror From Beyond: HM

Scum and Villainy: HM

Dreadtooth 10-stack (Step 2 for secret bosses)

 

Need to pay attention during farming

The Dread Fortress: HM

The Dread Palace: HM

The Dreadful Entity (first secret boss)

 

Wipe if key mechanic missed

Explosive Conflict: NM

 

Actual progression content

Terror From Beyond: NM

Scum and Villainy: NM

The Dread Fortress: NM (April 8)

The Dread Palace: NM (June 10)

The Hateful Entity (second secret boss)

 

In my experience, while the absolute top progression teams have completed their work on TFB and S&V nightmare mode, including timed title runs, the vast majority of progression teams either have not fully cleared those two operations, or even cleared them beyond the first boss of each.

 

TFB and S&V nightmare mode were the cutting edge progression content before 78s were released in DF and DP hard mode. Logically, teams immediately moved on to trying to get the new hard mode operations on farm for 78 gear. The majority have still not circled back to clear the preceding nightmare content, and many have no plans to do so.

 

Personally, I have recently cleared TFB (NM) and I am on the last two bosses of S&V (NM). Even with a team in, essentially, full BiS 78s, these nightmare operations are a very satisfying challenge. Story mode and hard mode S&V are total snooze-fests, to the point that S&V seems to be a lot of people's most hated operation, but the nightmare version really is pretty thrilling to work through.

 

I'd agree with that thorough analysis. 16man NiMs also add a further challenge to your traditional 8man NiMs.

Thanks everyone.

 

That gives me a decent overview of what I can expect if I decide to start raiding here. I'm glad to hear the operations have ramped up. EV was understandable about the lack of difficulty being the first raid of the game, but when we cleared KP night one, our entire raid group gave a giant "meh" and went away.

 

Sadly, I'm the only one walking around with our RC tag and I mainly because I'm lazy about finding new guilds until I decide for sure (and I'm repping for Penny Arcade).

 

See you in game.

Edited March 11, 2014 by The_Assuran