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STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Are the pinned guides still relevant?

Hei_Atzfel's Avatar


Hei_Atzfel
12.21.2014 , 10:19 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
There's more than just PvP bud

Besides, I know pretty much everything there is to know about the spec.
So sharing that knowledge is only natural to me.
Yes there is, but if deception were as terrible as you keep claiming then surely it'd be equally as useless in PvE as it was in PvP. From the way I see it deception isn't nearly as bad off as you keep claiming, you're just trying to argue that it's in such a terrible state to justify the usage of hatred.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.21.2014 , 10:28 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Hei_Atzfel View Post
Yes there is, but if deception were as terrible as you keep claiming then surely it'd be equally as useless in PvE as it was in PvP. From the way I see it deception isn't nearly as bad off as you keep claiming, you're just trying to argue that it's in such a terrible state to justify the usage of hatred.
You keep bringing up a dead argument. I havn't even released the guide yet and you're already bloating **** that doesn't even apply.

It IS thrash in PvE, but it still has some nichés.
There you go, happy now?

Jezus christ man, give it a rest already.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

Hei_Atzfel's Avatar


Hei_Atzfel
12.21.2014 , 10:33 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
You keep bringing up a dead argument. I havn't even released the guide yet and you're already bloating **** that doesn't even apply.

It IS thrash in PvE, but it still has some nichés.
There you go, happy now?

Jezus christ man, give it a rest already.
Nah, I don't think I will. Primarily because the spec isn't nearly as bad as you keep claiming, and partially because your reply posts are rather amusing.

IInox's Avatar


IInox
12.22.2014 , 06:19 AM | #14
unluckily the actual spot for Infiltration is not so good..and I'm a *** of it, trust me, I still updating my guide for it because I love it but now (well..since 2.8 tbh) I play Serenity for PvE unless there are some burst issues dependent by the fight.

Also PvP, Serenity is the king. No way. But I play sometimes Infiltration to get fun and play bursty..ninja nodes..1on1 etc. at least this..

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.22.2014 , 07:05 AM | #15
Infiltration can do things, never claimed otherwise. But anyone playing Infiltration would do 4 times as well if they would play Serenity regardless of what they are doing.

Because Infiltration, isn't going to do this.

Spoiler
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

IInox's Avatar


IInox
12.22.2014 , 08:14 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Infiltration can do things, never claimed otherwise. But anyone playing Infiltration would do 4 times as well if they would play Serenity regardless of what they are doing.

Because Infiltration, isn't going to do this.

Spoiler
yeah this is not gonna happen at all but it's RIGHT..like this..a burst spec must not do this sustain dps

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.22.2014 , 08:23 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by IInox View Post
yeah this is not gonna happen at all but it's RIGHT..like this..a burst spec must not do this sustain dps
Yeah that wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that Serenity can burst just as hard.. or even harder than Infiltration. It just requires setuptime, which is literally the only drawback.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

IInox's Avatar


IInox
12.22.2014 , 08:48 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Yeah that wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that Serenity can burst just as hard.. or even harder than Infiltration. It just requires setuptime, which is literally the only drawback.
idd, that's why people is whining about it

Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.22.2014 , 09:06 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Yeah that wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that Serenity can burst just as hard.. or even harder than Infiltration. It just requires setuptime, which is literally the only drawback.
It still can't burst quite as hard. Almost, yes, but the amount of setup also kills your sustained damage. Given the same number of criticals and the same number of GCDs, Hatred still can't match Deception's burst, so unless you literally have nothing to deal damage to, or you're trying to coordinate a massive burn on a target, you're better off not trying to maximize burst in Hatred. Especially considering the way you maximize Hatred's burst is by abusing the not-fully-thought-through way they coded the Raze reset.

I'm finally getting the chance today to work on that code I wanted to, so maybe we'll be lucky and I'll be done by tonight. I've started the pseudocode, but it might take a while because I'm helping prep for a big holiday gathering today (and the next few days) in a house still under renovation, and so it might not be done as soon as I'd like.

As for answering OP's question: Xinika's guides, MKnightrider's guides and the Mitigation Tanking guide are all somewhat out of date, though there is still some good information in there. General ideas and concepts still hold, but rotations and gearing suggestions probably don't, but I haven't read through them all extensively, and can't say for sure.
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
Ellendra - Death MarkExit Area - Theraton
The Shadowlands

Hei_Atzfel's Avatar


Hei_Atzfel
12.22.2014 , 09:15 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Infiltration can do things, never claimed otherwise. But anyone playing Infiltration would do 4 times as well if they would play Serenity regardless of what they are doing.

Because Infiltration, isn't going to do this.

Spoiler
Of course deception can't pull the same overall numbers. Not only does hatred have a hard hitting AoE as part of its main rotation but said AoE also spreads dots (which is a *********** stupid mechanic in and of itself) to anyone that gets hit by it. A lot of that overall damage though, is nothing but pure fluff. Creeping terror and discharge by themselves are nothing more than a tiny nuisance that can be negated by an AoE heal or two every now and then. So let's say that a hatred sin pulls 2k dps in a civil war. Of that 2k probably a good 400-600 dps is from nothing but death field's AoE and the spreaded dots ticking on people and ending up doing nothing but adding a but of extra damage to the scoreboard, leaving you with 1,400-1,600 effective dps.

Whereas on the other hand if I pull 1,400-1,600 dps in deception than most, if not all, of that dps is effective. So really, the advantage that hatred has of spreading dots really isn't anything more than fluff unless you start stacking sins, but if we're talking a single sin it's just an annoyance. Hatred simply has more options to stay at range if necessary as well as being able to heal itself. Now, no one is saying that hatred doesn't need a nerf, because it certainly does, but it's not utterly eclipsing deception like certain people would like to have everyone believe.