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Should I keep using Power/Surge in pvp for my dps or does accuracy matter now?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Should I keep using Power/Surge in pvp for my dps or does accuracy matter now?

Hellhog's Avatar


Hellhog
12.12.2014 , 02:04 PM | #11
The main reason the argument has popped up about Power vs Mainstat augmenting is for classes that had the 9% mainstat boost. Pre 3.0 classes with that boost that went full Mainstat only lost less than 1 point of bonus damage yet gained around a percent of crit. In 3.0, the lack of the mainstat boost in the skill tree makes full mainstat augmenting on the new augments 14.5 less total bonus damage however you get around 1.3% crit after diminishing returns. From there, it comes down to the class specifics and discipline specifics. For now, I'm probably going to go mainstat because that could mean I use one less crit mod in the end and the power gain from that would be more than the bonus damage difference from mainstat over power.

Another important thing to note is that the difference itself is so small that the RNG in damage actually dealt, crit actually staying true to critical chances, and natural variations in one's own rotation over a fight, that natural variations will probably cause more damage differences or parse amounts than actually choosing between either power or mainstat.

Personally, I say choose whatever one you want and no matter what you choose, you are not incorrect no matter what someone says the numbers are. The difference is just too small. Natural variations will take more effect.

Below is some math explaining what I have in the first paragraph.
0.2*((1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^(X/60/5.5)))*100 = crit from mainstat
0.23*X = bonus damage from power
0.2*X = bonus damage from mainstat

In full (x14) 156 Augments:
Power:
14*32*0.23 = 103.04
Willpower (no mainstat skill tree boost):
14*32*0.2*1.05 = 94.08
crit assuming 3000 mainstat before augmenting = 0.92%
Willpower (mainstat skill tree boost):
14*23*0.2*1.05*1.09 = 102.55
crit assuming 3000 mainstat before augmenting = 1.00%

So you can see why Mainstat > Power Pre-3.0 for 9% bonus classes. Assassin's never had that skill though yet Willpower seemed to be the consensus back then. So I'm not really sure why it'd be a discussion come 3.0. The amount of crit provided does go down because the formula scaled with level. Power and Mainstat damage however remained the same formula. But the difference is still very small

In full (x14) 186 Augments:
Power:
14*52*0.23 = 167.44
Willpower (no mainstat skill tree boost):
14*52*0.2*1.05 = 152.88
crit assuming 3500 mainstat before augmenting = 1.3%

So there you have it, those are the exact numbers. From there decide what seems best for you. Run your own tests, etc. NOTE: For those wondering what the 1.05 is that I multiplied by, that is the class buff provided by the Inquisitor/Consular. It is not something you can neglect. For example, that 728 power provided from augments remains 728. But in mainstat, that 728 becomes 764.4 with your buff applied. Also, for the 156 augment math, I used the formula based on being a lvl 55.

Edit: Just to give you and idea of how much that 1.3% crit from the mainstat compares to crit from critical rating, look below:
Assuming 0 crit, then you need 71 crit rating for 1.3% (comparison, an optimized 180 mod has 69 crit)
Assuming 100 crit, then you need an additional 75 crit for that extra 1.3% (comparison, an optimized 186 mod has 75 crit)
Assuming 200 crit, then you need an additional 80 crit for that extra 1.3%
Assuming 300 crit, then you need an additional 86 crit for that extra 1.3%

So what I'm getting at is that if you have a particular critical chance target that you are seeking, using mainstat would most likely mean 1 less critical mod and instead 1 additional power mod. Getting a 180 mod as power instead of crit would be 15.87 additional bonus damage. If you remember from above, full mainstat was 14.56 less bonus damage than full power augmenting. So in the case of having a critical chance target, using full mainstat augments over power augments could in fact lead to having a higher bonus damage score.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.12.2014 , 06:04 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Hellhog View Post
...
So you can see why Mainstat > Power Pre-3.0 for 9% bonus classes. Assassin's never had that skill though yet Willpower seemed to be the consensus back then. So I'm not really sure why it'd be a discussion come 3.0. The amount of crit provided does go down because the formula scaled with level. Power and Mainstat damage however remained the same formula. But the difference is still very small...
The reason, in 2.X, that Assassins still went with main stat augments was due to the absurd surge bonuses we used to have. Madness had 30% on dots and 50% on Thrash, while Deception had 30% on Maul and 50% on Discharge and Shock. We had so much passive surge that the extra crit chance had a much greater value to us than to other classes (remember, critical is only as effective as your surge and number of non-auto-crits).
Quote: Originally Posted by Hellhog View Post
...So what I'm getting at is that if you have a particular critical chance target that you are seeking, using mainstat would most likely mean 1 less critical mod and instead 1 additional power mod. Getting a 180 mod as power instead of crit would be 15.87 additional bonus damage. If you remember from above, full mainstat was 14.56 less bonus damage than full power augmenting. So in the case of having a critical chance target, using full mainstat augments over power augments could in fact lead to having a higher bonus damage score.
Never, ever try to optimally gear by using a % goal for critical chance, because that ignores the fact that your main stat increases linearly with gear level (though the crit bonus from it does have DR) (and contributes to it at all) and that critical rating is very non-linear. At each gear level, a different amount of critical rating will be optimal, and you have to balance that with the stat that competes for the crit slow: power.
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DemonJin's Avatar


DemonJin
12.13.2014 , 03:04 PM | #13
I've been playing deception since launch and have found it that its best to use enough willpower augments to ensure you hit the crit you want to have. Once you've reached your crit that you desire you should augment for power. And as for accuracy, once you've gotten to around 75% surge start grabbing accuracy mods and enhancements.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.13.2014 , 05:32 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DemonJin View Post
I've been playing deception since launch and have found it that its best to use enough willpower augments to ensure you hit the crit you want to have. Once you've reached your crit that you desire you should augment for power. And as for accuracy, once you've gotten to around 75% surge start grabbing accuracy mods and enhancements.
Not sure why you want to get to 75% surge, seeing as you need 700 rating. In full Brutalizer, at the end of 2.10, you would have needed 9 Surge pieces to get to 75% surge. However, with nothing else even being mildly useful (beyond accuracy) for a tertiary stat for a dps, that was okay. In the new ranked gear, you should (assuming gear follows the pattern from 2.X, since I haven't looked at it) need 8-9 pieces of surge to hit 75%. However, with Alacrity now being beneficial, I don't think this is such a good idea. Trading the 8th piece of surge for your first piece of Alacrity gives you 1.23% alacrity at the cost of 1.27% surge. At that level of alacrity, it will be largely unnoticeable, but you'll be hitting marginally faster. If you traded away a 9th piece of Surge, you'd lose only 1.02%

As for mods, you can't get accuracy, surge, or any other tertiary stat on them, so the enhancements would be how you'd have to do it.
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crunchybacon's Avatar


crunchybacon
12.14.2014 , 04:51 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Hellhog View Post
I recommend the following (sorry if any mistakes but this is from memory):

-All 7 Stalker Pieces
-Force-Mystic Focus (whatever one is Power/Surge)
-Power/Surge Earpiece (cannot remember name)
-Power/Accuracy Implants x2 (cannot remember name)
-Replace both Crit/Alacrity enhancements with Power/Surge (believe this is the chest and hands)

From here, when I go full Dark Reaver, I plan to have 1 Accuracy augment and the rest most likely Willpower.
I haven't put any thought into Crit Rating yet and where to swap Crit for Power.

In full Dark Reaver, I believe this is 307 accuracy which is just above 95/105. Unless proven otherwise, I don't plan to use Alacrity for PvP. But I still plan to do some testing and number crunching in the future. For now I just play the full unaugmented Exhumed set listed above and am working on getting ranked gear first before messing with anything else.

Note: the reason I recommend Power/Accuracy implants instead of enhancements is Stalker gear only comes with one accuracy enhancement (in the headpiece). Replacing enhancements is far more expensive than getting implants twice (in the case I were to decide to go Power/Surge and drop accuracy).

Note #2: You can choose 1 of the 7 gear pieces to be Force-Mystic or Force-Master in order to save costs on buying separate Mods/Enhancements for minmaxing later since the set bonus requires only 6 pieces. I only went with all 7 because of a little bit of OCD in my case. Unfortunately mixing and matching of bracers/belts is futile this time around as bracers for all 3 sets are all crit I believe and belts for all 3 are power (it could be the other way around, either way BioWare thought ahead on that one).

Happy Note: This time around BioWare decided to do PvP gearing a solid and give BiS mods in the 5 main gear pieces instead of A-type unoptimized high endurance mods, yay!
Why do you run the unaugmented Exhumed set instead of putting the modifications into a decent looking orange set?

Then you only augment once. Plus, some the of PvP gear sets are dang ugly.

RaithHarth's Avatar


RaithHarth
12.21.2014 , 07:44 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
Not sure why you want to get to 75% surge, seeing as you need 700 rating. In full Brutalizer, at the end of 2.10, you would have needed 9 Surge pieces to get to 75% surge. However, with nothing else even being mildly useful (beyond accuracy) for a tertiary stat for a dps, that was okay. In the new ranked gear, you should (assuming gear follows the pattern from 2.X, since I haven't looked at it) need 8-9 pieces of surge to hit 75%. However, with Alacrity now being beneficial, I don't think this is such a good idea. Trading the 8th piece of surge for your first piece of Alacrity gives you 1.23% alacrity at the cost of 1.27% surge. At that level of alacrity, it will be largely unnoticeable, but you'll be hitting marginally faster. If you traded away a 9th piece of Surge, you'd lose only 1.02%

As for mods, you can't get accuracy, surge, or any other tertiary stat on them, so the enhancements would be how you'd have to do it.
As of now I have the following Exhumed set:

Exhumed stalker robe = crit & alacrity
Exhumed force-masters device = power & surge
Exhumed force-mystics focus = power & surge
Exhumed stalker saberstaff = crit & surge
Exhumed stalker legwraps = crit & surge
Exhumed stalker headgear = accuracy + power
Exhumed stalker handwraps = crit + alacrity
Exhumed stalker boots = power & surge
Exhumed stalker waistwraps = crit
Exhumed stalker bracers = power
Exhumed stalker MK-V package (implants) x 2 = accuracy & power
Exhumed relic of Serendipitous assault
Exhumed relic of focused retribution

Does this seem right?

Also I'm abit confused after I get my full Dark Reaver gear set should I stick to full main stat or go full power augments? And which mods/enhancements should I be exchanging?

I'm a infiltration shadow just so you know.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.22.2014 , 08:29 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by RaithHarth View Post
As of now I have the following Exhumed set:

Exhumed stalker robe = crit & alacrity
Exhumed force-masters device = power & surge
Exhumed force-mystics focus = power & surge
Exhumed stalker saberstaff = crit & surge
Exhumed stalker legwraps = crit & surge
Exhumed stalker headgear = accuracy + power
Exhumed stalker handwraps = crit + alacrity
Exhumed stalker boots = power & surge
Exhumed stalker waistwraps = crit
Exhumed stalker bracers = power
Exhumed stalker MK-V package (implants) x 2 = accuracy & power
Exhumed relic of Serendipitous assault
Exhumed relic of focused retribution

Does this seem right?

Also I'm abit confused after I get my full Dark Reaver gear set should I stick to full main stat or go full power augments? And which mods/enhancements should I be exchanging?

I'm a infiltration shadow just so you know.
I'm no expert on accuracy in PvP, though I know that 2 pieces isn't enough to make you stop missing non-Consulars/Inquisitors. It's up to you, though, if you think that trading away damage to ensure you hit is worth it.

For Alacrity vs Surge, 2/5 seems as decent a split as it gets. As for Resolve vs Overkill augments, they're almost identical in effect, but if you're trying to burst as hard as you can, you should be running 0 critical rating and use the Overkill augments.
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.22.2014 , 08:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
I'm no expert on accuracy in PvP, though I know that 2 pieces isn't enough to make you stop missing non-Consulars/Inquisitors. It's up to you, though, if you think that trading away damage to ensure you hit is worth it.

For Alacrity vs Surge, 2/5 seems as decent a split as it gets. As for Resolve vs Overkill augments, they're almost identical in effect, but if you're trying to burst as hard as you can, you should be running 0 critical rating and use the Overkill augments.
The only real important thing you can miss is your FiB and it only misses on tanks.
So don't use tanks as your plaguebearer. The rest of it.. if it misses once in a match it's pretty much "whatever".
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