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So our guild can usually get the majority of the people needed for a SM EC/TFB (we refuse to pug HM as we are still progressing on these), but usually we have to pug a couple spots. In general chat we set up our lfm requirement to have 1800 mainstat (for EV/KP HM we usually just have them tell us what there mainstat is at and decide from there), this is the shortened version if you are too lazy to get your free tionese gear and do a couple FP’s we are not taking you. Every single time there are people complaining about this.

 

Just a few responses in general chat or from a tell:

-Mainstat means nothing.

-Lol, mainstat requirement for TFB/EC SM

-Aim, Strength, Willpower, Cunning (yes, countless times now we have asked people what their mainstat is at and this was the response)

-You don’t need 1800 for that raid.

 

My issue is that it takes very little effort to achieve this requirement yet people still complain. We are tired people joining raids still wearing green gear (for EV/KP HM comm and mount runs) or put no effort what so ever into doing a FP or EV/KP SM. To be honest, when the majority of our guild is geared for EC and TFB HM, we don’t want to and shouldn’t have to carry you when you clearly have run very little lvl 50 content to begin with and just want a free ride.

 

What are other people doing when they have to pug a couple spots. Are they just accepting whoever they get the first tell from without knowing what gear they have and hoping things run smoothly? I am not an elitist, far from it actually, I have no problem helping people learn the runs or get better gear, but I mean c’mon, 1800 is so easy to get to and is a pretty conservative figure.

 

Is a requirement to having a certain mainstat for a raid really asking too much?

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If it is a guild run with a couple pugs, then the raid leader can require whatever they want. Pugs don't like it, don't take them and ignore. They want to take people into SM TfB or HM EC with tionese or lower gear, then they can form their own group. Personally I would require all dps to be augmented, been on to many pug type runs where healers and tank kept everyone alive until enrage, but then everyone wiped. Then have dps yell at me for not healing them through enrage. You hit enrage with everyone alive the entire time, it isn’t the tanks or healers fault that is all on dps. Except in certain uncommon situation where healer may have made an epic mistake and healed the target during force leech or something.

 

I don't think your requirement is to strict. People only wanting full BIS 63 for HM EC or HM TfB is too strict.

Edited by mikebevo
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So our guild can usually get the majority of the people needed for a SM EC/TFB (we refuse to pug HM as we are still progressing on these), but usually we have to pug a couple spots. In general chat we set up our lfm requirement to have 1800 mainstat (for EV/KP HM we usually just have them tell us what there mainstat is at and decide from there), this is the shortened version if you are too lazy to get your free tionese gear and do a couple FP’s we are not taking you. Every single time there are people complaining about this.

 

Just a few responses in general chat or from a tell:

-Mainstat means nothing.

-Lol, mainstat requirement for TFB/EC SM

-Aim, Strength, Willpower, Cunning (yes, countless times now we have asked people what their mainstat is at and this was the response)

-You don’t need 1800 for that raid.

 

My issue is that it takes very little effort to achieve this requirement yet people still complain. We are tired people joining raids still wearing green gear (for EV/KP HM comm and mount runs) or put no effort what so ever into doing a FP or EV/KP SM. To be honest, when the majority of our guild is geared for EC and TFB HM, we don’t want to and shouldn’t have to carry you when you clearly have run very little lvl 50 content to begin with and just want a free ride.

 

What are other people doing when they have to pug a couple spots. Are they just accepting whoever they get the first tell from without knowing what gear they have and hoping things run smoothly? I am not an elitist, far from it actually, I have no problem helping people learn the runs or get better gear, but I mean c’mon, 1800 is so easy to get to and is a pretty conservative figure.

 

Is a requirement to having a certain mainstat for a raid really asking too much?

 

1800 main stat is good enough for the hardmodes let alone the story modes. Someone with 1800 mainstat is going to be at the very least over rakata level, I got two alts just over that in rakata/campaign mix and I know for a fact my sniper cleared EC SM and done TFB SM up to weekly first time with around 1700 with the 9% skill tree buff. My sorc healer who was in plain old rakata at the time healed through a 6 man EV nightmare mode with around 1700 main stat.

 

Another thing you're forgetting to consider is mod -wise more people are bound to stack secondary stats like power and crit rather than their main stats. My main whom is 2/5 dreadguard and rest campaign sit around 1900 without a stim but I have around 1000 power instead of the heavy mainstat 27A mods. In comparison you'd be requesting that every pug that joined was geared to at least mostly 61's with some bits augmented just for a story mode that drops lesser gear.

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It's not too much, but don't base them off of one stat, inspect all of the stats their class needs, and of course, if you find a knight in sage gear, don't take him ;)

 

Well it would be nice to inspect players and their companions gear, however when I inspect a player I still keep seeing my gear instead of theirs. So until they patch fix inspecting players it's kinda worthless to inspect players.

Edited by Raideag
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It's your run and you can take whomever you like, but honestly 1800 seems a little high. I mean TFB/EC SM shouldn't need BH gear to accomplish. :p

 

I've seen people with 1200 mainstat pull off some crazy dps, and honestly a person with lesser gear who knows the fights would probably be preferable . Plus if you guys are geared for the HMs anyhow:o, bringing a slightly lesser geared player shouldn't be a problem as long as he isn't hindering the group in any way.

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Just a few responses in general chat or from a tell:

-Mainstat means nothing.

-Lol, mainstat requirement for TFB/EC SM

-Aim, Strength, Willpower, Cunning (yes, countless times now we have asked people what their mainstat is at and this was the response)

-You don’t need 1800 for that raid.

I'm both amused and depressed by some of these responses. Especially the third one.

 

1800 does seem a bit high though, at least if it's without any buffs or stims. My gunslinger has 1788 cunning with mostly BH and Rakata gear and a few stray columi mods. She has successfully completed EC SM as a filler to a guild run and KP HM in a complete PUG. With the consular buff and an exotech stim, her cunning is pushed well above 2000 though. Most of her gear isn't augmented either, because I have a difficult personality.

 

Of course, high stats can provide some compensation for lack of skill. It's just a shame that setting a stat requirement favors those who have taken shortcuts and bought their equipment without learning to play properly (see here for an example), while potentially excluding skilled but less geared players.

Edited by DataBeaver
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As some have hinted at, mainstat level might not be that high for a well-geared person using unlettered mods and power augments, so it's not necessarily a great metric.

 

Here's what my guild looks for in an EC or TFB SM pug:

Do you have a decent health pool?

Do you know the fights or have vent?

 

We're not raiding superstars, but the pugs have never prevented a clear. And we're usually doing full runs trying to get the end stabilizers for some new alt or something. I guess I can see having requirements if you're just trying to get the weekly done as quickly as possible. But otherwise why be such a snob? The last few people we recruited were from TFB runs. They didn't have a lot of gear (actually NEEDED some of the Rakata!), or even knew the fights past the weekly, but they learned quickly and handled mechanics well. Be willing to give a chance to your server's talented but undergeared, and you may not have to pug these runs in the future.

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op

it is your raid and your guild. if past experiences shown that this number is what it makes you and your guild comfortable and successful with running that content then go with it.

 

also i agree with you 100% of not taking the lazy who haven't made a effort to get the free tioenesse. if they didn't know about it then politely tell them as that is the only acceptable excuse for having green gear.

 

it really isn't hard to get a base stat past 1800 but the sentinel/guardian and its empire mirror class will have problems since it is the only class(s) without a main stat bonus in its tree. also many players use non main stat augments or no augments at all which can make this number even more difficult to obtain. a toon with all blue t6 augments will have plus 224 main stat base and more with bonuses. but players dont always use main stat augments. and i will not go into the whys and why nots of this as that is a thread in itself and has no place in this discussion. the only thing i would like to know is why someone has no augments at all if that is the case. there are some reasonable and acceptable reasons for this.

 

in a nutshell, your guild, your ops run, your rules. if they dont like it then too bad.

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We'll take a fresh 50 to SM EV or EC for a comms run. My guild is usually pugging DPS (we have a lot of tanks and healers in our guild). What we will take depends on what the DPS looks like among our guildies, because some of our DPS is very good so they can usually carry an undergeared DPS. We try to look for DPS that we've run with before and know are good if we can.

 

That said, if a pug does not have at least full Tionese with Recruit gear making up the missing pieces, we're gonna make them grab that stuff because its free and there's no reason not to get it. I dont think we mind carrying someone but we don't need to carry someone more than we have to. I have had pugs with greens at 50 and its probably the only thing I'll kick you over.

 

And, by the way, to gauge how someone is, I actually look at their social rank. High social rank to me says they've run a lot of group content, how in demand they are, devoted to PvE, etc.

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And, by the way, to gauge how someone is, I actually look at their social rank. High social rank to me says they've run a lot of group content, how in demand they are, devoted to PvE, etc.

 

That could actually work if social was tied to legacy. I have 2 level X social toons, a Sawbones and a infiltration shadow (both have be social 10 for over 6 months). You seriously would take a infiltration social X shadow over my social 3 Watchman? :p Trust me, only reason she is not higher social is because most fun runs and comm runs we go on we are short healers, so I end up healing instead of dps, but in everything but SM TfB, I would take my watchman over my shadow. Not sure about SM TfB, but I love the burst dps on the shadow, but gear wise and overall dps my watchman is would still be a better choice.

 

The difference is my shadow and smuggler have been 50 for 11 months or longer, my Sentinal has been 50 for about 2 months. I do dailies, I do heroics (solo) and I train on the dummy, but I don't do HMFP, I do them on my healer since I don't need the comms or the gear and hate to wait. I would love to do more operations on her, but Iike I wrote, I end up healing most of the time. Also have an operator geared fairly well, but she is like social 4 because our sister guild just does not have the people to do ops yet. However, I am fairly confident with my abilities on her, since it is the exact same thing as my sawbones.

 

So I think social may be a good indicator, it isn’t foolproof either although for the most part it is just a good as any other way short of taking people to the training dummy or into a HMFP to check their abilities before doing a Operation.

Edited by mikebevo
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Well i guess i cant run with you guys, my vanguard TANK has a mix of 61s and 63s but my aim stat, which by the way is my main stat is only 1750 un-buffed guess im screwed :(.

 

You're a tank, your mainstat is endurance. So I am guessing your endurance is somewhere between 2300 and 2500 lol, clearly good enough. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my post, but we are usually asking 1800 buffed, we just assume everyone will be.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the responses.

 

After plugging some gear into Ask Mr Robot for sorc dps I found the following, I realize classes are different, warrior gets stuck with a lot of power and snipers a lot of endurance. But, full columi, class matrix cube, class buffs, stim, and 6% from the class tree puts you just shy of 1800. So perhaps 1800 wasn't quite as conservative as I was originally thinking, still easily achievable though if if you spend a week or two doing lower tier stuff before stepping into these ops.

 

Throw in a few augments, get 35 to 50 BH comms (for sorc example, pick up the BH implant or boots), maybe 120 daily comms for a rakata implant (probably better off just saving up for 300 honestly though), maybe run Lost Island for the rakata chest, get yourself some modifiable belt and bracers, and you are well past this mark.

 

I'm seeing a lot of comments about 1800 being rakata+, I'm just not seeing this. For sorc (again, I realize each class is different), you can hit over 1900 with full rakata, stim and class buff. This doesn't even include augmenting one single piece of gear. WIth my least geared 50, my juggernaut, I have a mix of BH/rakata (power heavy) and I am at 2000+ strength (a few pieces are augmented).

 

We could easily carry a couple of under geared people through this as most of us are over geared for SM EC/TFB. Maybe we are setting our standards a little high. I don't want to be a snob or elitist about it, but people should be running at least SM EV/KP and some HM EV/KP. Yeah, I know EC and TFB drop rakata, but I think that was more intended to fill in the gaps from stuff you didn't get from HM EV/KP. Sure you don't need rakata, but it is it really that difficult to get a couple pieces before hand. EV/KP HM are not difficult, people should be thankful they don't have to fight through double ticking lightning balls that hit you for 18k anymore to get the rakata chest piece.

 

Meh, maybe mainstat requirement is a bad way to do it, but it's a lot easier than running around inspecting people before you invite them. Being as we are mostly running these for stabs, we are just trying to speed up the process.

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You're a tank, your mainstat is endurance. So I am guessing your endurance is somewhere between 2300 and 2500 lol, clearly good enough. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my post, but we are usually asking 1800 buffed, we just assume everyone will be.

 

 

 

you obviously did not get my sarcasm and endurance is not a tanks main stat in this game look at there defense rating, the higher the better.

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Rather than gear stats, you could require a minimum sustained dps from the operations combat dummy. I'm guessing that somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 for melee dps and 1000 for range dps should suffice for SM EC or TfB. This takes into account not only gearing, but also rotation mastery.

 

Of course, this will automatically filter out all noobs who don't even know where the combat dummy is, much less how to use any raid parser. But maybe this is a desired result.

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You're a tank, your mainstat is endurance. So I am guessing your endurance is somewhere between 2300 and 2500 lol, clearly good enough. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my post, but we are usually asking 1800 buffed, we just assume everyone will be.

 

 

 

you obviously did not get my sarcasm and endurance is not a tanks main stat in this game look at there defense rating, the higher the better.

 

 

If you're a vanguard stacking defense, then you're doing it wrong.

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You're a tank, your mainstat is endurance. So I am guessing your endurance is somewhere between 2300 and 2500 lol, clearly good enough. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my post, but we are usually asking 1800 buffed, we just assume everyone will be.

 

 

 

you obviously did not get my sarcasm and endurance is not a tanks main stat in this game look at there defense rating, the higher the better.

 

Lol, I got the sarcasm. And yes, I know defense is key for tanks, but endurance rating can help gauge a persons tank stats as long as they are not completely mis-itemized. We are usually not pugging tanks, so this is not much of an issue for us. I hear what you are saying though.

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If you're a vanguard stacking defense, then you're doing it wrong.

 

 

I have played my vanguard since day one of early release and have had many build high endurance, high shield and high defense. The parse data does not lie in high defense i take much less damage than any other build i have tried. When i join as a pug the healers of that group always comment on how smooth and easy my tank was to heal and keep alive. Try it out yourself and you will see.

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Assuming a finite stat pool, you face a zero sum situation with respect to the three secondary defensive statistics. Thus, you stack defense at the expense of stacking either shield or absorb.

 

The problem with this in the vanguard class is that you waste talents in your skill tree that buff your shield and absorb by adding a percentage of the total. Here are the talents:

 

Shield Cycler: 2% bonus to shield chance

Ceramic Plating: 4% bonus to absorb

Power Screen: 8% bonus to absorb when fully stacked

Counterattack: 6% bonus to shield chance

 

Having a low shield chance or absorb means having lower bonuses. This is undeniable regardless of what you may have experienced or what healers may have told you.

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Assuming a finite stat pool, you face a zero sum situation with respect to the three secondary defensive statistics. Thus, you stack defense at the expense of stacking either shield or absorb.

 

The problem with this in the vanguard class is that you waste talents in your skill tree that buff your shield and absorb by adding a percentage of the total. Here are the talents:

 

Shield Cycler: 2% bonus to shield chance

Ceramic Plating: 4% bonus to absorb

Power Screen: 8% bonus to absorb when fully stacked

Counterattack: 6% bonus to shield chance

 

Having a low shield chance or absorb means having lower bonuses. This is undeniable regardless of what you may have experienced or what healers may have told you.

 

This is the wonderful thing about games like this people seem to think there is only one way to do things but there are many different ways of doing things.

 

My three main defensive stats are:

Defence 28%

Shield Chance 53%

Absorbe is 52, 60 with power screen

26500 hp

 

 

I have had no problems doing tfb hm or ec nim.

I like to outright avoid the damage than to mitigate it through the shield.

But this just my opinion and we all know about opinions right

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Of course, this will automatically filter out all noobs who don't even know where the combat dummy is, much less how to use any raid parser. But maybe this is a desired result.
It is on my ship and they are not allowed there. :p

 

The one on the fleets can be laggy especially on busy nights if they haven't taken the game down in a couple weeks, but still may be the place to do it since the operations can be laggy too under those circumstances.

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