Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.07.2012 , 10:58 AM | #71
A good player can take any tank in this game and excel with it. The classes are all pretty solid. Stat counting and min maxing are fun. No doubt, but there is no situation where a particular tank just can't do the job (Like we had in wow where only DKs could do Vezax because they were the only tank with applicable cooldown CDs).
May the Schwartz be with you....

DwainD's Avatar


DwainD
12.11.2012 , 02:45 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyriosgundam View Post
Juggurnaut Tanks still make better tanks than the Jedi Guardian's do at least at the lower levels. My level 13 Jug can take on an elite 2 levels above it. While my level 16 Guardian Tank cant even take down a elite at the same level as she is, and I have all the best gear for that level on it. Plus the opponent is melee based which the Guardian should be strong against. So while the Jug Tank is not as good as the Assassin Tank (Which my main character is by the way). It still has its uses and can be very effective if used by the right player. All the Jug tanks I have teamed up with have out lasted everyone in my groups except for maybe myself, and thats pretty good from where I am standing.
This has nothing to do with the differences in Guardian and Juggernaut as they're essentially the same, and everything to do with the companion each gets. Vette is about 35% better at damage dealing than the Droid and has a better selection for gear, making her an overall better companion.

In quest/solo play the Jugg has a clear advantage early on. But in 4 person flashpoints they both play the same and perform the same.

(stupid spellchecker)

Seeten's Avatar


Seeten
12.29.2012 , 07:50 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Oddly enough of the 3 tanks I've found that Powertechs are the ones I never see.

I've raided with Legacy of Bane, Rage, Infernal Harvest, Terror/Jivanikas, and never seen one Powertech tank (Powertank) for Operations or Nightmare Pilgrim.

Have I seen a Powertank for Gargath and PD? Yes. Have I seen a Powertank for Tier 1 HM FPs? Yes.
Have I seen a Powertank for any Operation (even Story EV) and HM LI? Nope.

Maybe there just weren't many on Ajunta Pall and just aren't many on Jung Ma, but I find it telling that there's so few of them.

I've done HM EC with 2xTanksassins and a Juggernaut+Tanksassin. I haven't done it with 2xJugg but I did Nightmare KP with 2 Juggs and that was faceroll, even in a Columi-Rakata mix.
I'm an Officer in Infernal Harvest (Gloom) and I have one of each tank. I've completed HM TFB with both Annaconda (Powertech) and Gloom (Assassin) and I'll be running on Toxic (Juggernaut) tonight. I have preferences due to playstyles, but all 3 tanks are "Viable".
Party Time Kittenface
Bounty Hunter of Infernal Harvest
Jung Ma

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.30.2012 , 10:43 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by DwainD View Post
This has nothing to do with the differences in Guardian and Juggernaut as they're essentially the same, and everything to do with the companion each gets. Vette is about 35% better at damage dealing than the Droid and has a better selection for gear, making her an overall better companion.

In quest/solo play the Jugg has a clear advantage early on. But in 4 person flashpoints they both play the same and perform the same.

(stupid spellchecker)
You're comparing a ranged DPS companion with a ranged Tank companion, of course Vette is going to deal more damage. However, T7 can be your own personal meat (or rather circuitry) shield and essentially double your HP pool.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.31.2012 , 04:17 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
A good player can take any tank in this game and excel with it. The classes are all pretty solid. Stat counting and min maxing are fun. No doubt, but there is no situation where a particular tank just can't do the job (Like we had in wow where only DKs could do Vezax because they were the only tank with applicable cooldown CDs).
You can excel with any tank in this game, but the classes are not as solid as they seem. Guardians, especially due to faulty defense tree have big problems holding threat and this denies the dps their full rotation execution the first 30 seconds of the fight resulting in a significant dps loss or loss of aggro. This was not meant in any way to happen by Bioware, and I think with new level cap they'll be taking measures to fixing this.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Allegos's Avatar


Allegos
12.31.2012 , 10:38 PM | #76
The only problem I've seem with Juggernauts is their lack of reach at low levels, making it easy for DPS to use their knockbacks to keep mobs away from you. This is also problematic for competent DPS, who keep seeing mobs knocked out of the area of effect of ground targeted abilities like Death From Above. It's not a problem with the tanking class, and could be easily solved by making Flashpoint mobs immune to knockback.
"The Nerfbat is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those FOTMs who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed that is."

KarathAnno's Avatar


KarathAnno
01.04.2013 , 12:20 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Allegos View Post
The only problem I've seem with Juggernauts is their lack of reach at low levels, making it easy for DPS to use their knockbacks to keep mobs away from you. This is also problematic for competent DPS, who keep seeing mobs knocked out of the area of effect of ground targeted abilities like Death From Above. It's not a problem with the tanking class, and could be easily solved by making Flashpoint mobs immune to knockback.
That would be awful. As a jugg tank leap --> force push --> leap is one of the only ways I have to quickly pull together spread out groups. (Edit, not to mention one of the most fun things I get to do as a tank.)

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.04.2013 , 01:32 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Allegos View Post
It's not a problem with the tanking class
It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players. There are actually parts of the game where the developers have explicitly allowed players to have an easy time clearing trash by just knocking them off the edge. False Emperor is *famous* for this, such that there is actually an area in that that it's best to explicitly tell players to *not* knock enemies off the edge because there is grating in the KB area that often causes enemies to bug out and/or reset.

Knockback is a utility function. Just because some players are idiots and don't understand that it's a utility function rather than their AoE damage ability (I've met so many bad Shadows that think that Force Wave is their AoE damage ability and it just makes me facepalm because Force Wave does such marginal damage while scattering my tightly packed mob) doesn't meant that it's a problem with the game. Making all enemies in FPs immune to KB would just make KB only really useful for PvP, which is just boring; I *like* being able to throw my opponents off of the side of ledges and, when necessary, pushing them around so that they stack up better, not to mention that, from a mechanical standpoint, pulls like Harpoon and Force Pull are identical to pushes (it's just a push in the inverse direction with a cap on the push distance equal to the current distance between the targets).
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.04.2013 , 02:41 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players. There are actually parts of the game where the developers have explicitly allowed players to have an easy time clearing trash by just knocking them off the edge. False Emperor is *famous* for this, such that there is actually an area in that that it's best to explicitly tell players to *not* knock enemies off the edge because there is grating in the KB area that often causes enemies to bug out and/or reset.

Knockback is a utility function. Just because some players are idiots and don't understand that it's a utility function rather than their AoE damage ability (I've met so many bad Shadows that think that Force Wave is their AoE damage ability and it just makes me facepalm because Force Wave does such marginal damage while scattering my tightly packed mob) doesn't meant that it's a problem with the game. Making all enemies in FPs immune to KB would just make KB only really useful for PvP, which is just boring; I *like* being able to throw my opponents off of the side of ledges and, when necessary, pushing them around so that they stack up better, not to mention that, from a mechanical standpoint, pulls like Harpoon and Force Pull are identical to pushes (it's just a push in the inverse direction with a cap on the push distance equal to the current distance between the targets).
100% exactly.

Incidentally, one of the frustrating things when I'm on my Commando is

1. Seeing trash head towards the healer
2. I fire off my very expensive morter volley
3. the mobs fall on their backs and start taking damage
4. THEN the healer triggers their knockback pushing them out of range.

Eh?

This even happens in my raid group using vent in HM TfB with people I've played with for months and should really know better.

Seriously? You didn't see the giant explosive charges killing everyone that was surrounding you?

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.04.2013 , 03:25 PM | #80
Hah yep. Worst I've seen is knock back right before I do full singularity sweep on a big pull. 30k damage down the drain.

I blame noxxic in part. It lists overload as an aoe DMG ability for every DPS spec for sorc and sin (even tank sin). At least for sorc it says its lower than force storm, but for decep-sin it says overload is top aoe DPS priority. You're better off doingsingle target.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.