Jump to content

You are aware of how terrible expertise is?


Xinika

Recommended Posts

Right? Knowing that the stat soft caps at roughly 10%, BM upgrades are a complete joke. Not only do PvErs gain more of the crucial stats but they gain more health as well. (lol) I'm just curious as to what your itemization team was thinking before these sets were released.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Right? Knowing that the stat soft caps at roughly 10%, BM upgrades are a complete joke. Not only do PvErs gain more of the crucial stats but they gain more health as well. (lol) I'm just curious as to what your itemization team was thinking before these sets were released.

 

This should actually be a big issue... but with all the qq about pvpers hitting me to hard from 0 geared players expertise will never ever be decent (especially with gaining about 5 points from BM... honestly they should just do away with pvp gear. Look at the first MMO when wanting to work on PVP. Ultima Online has never had pvp gear and yet gear was abundant due to high amounts of customization in gear. Also the had the right idea on how to get player crafted gear that meant something but still made it reliable for pve/pvp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They already said they were going to fix this, and make it so having more expertise will always be beneficial.

 

Not sure when, but they acknowledged this issue.

 

PvP equipment will get slight stat boost within the next 2months more than likely.

Edited by Varcan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right? Knowing that the stat soft caps at roughly 10%, BM upgrades are a complete joke. Not only do PvErs gain more of the crucial stats but they gain more health as well. (lol) I'm just curious as to what your itemization team was thinking before these sets were released.

 

You are aware that even if it's only 10%, that translates to a difference of 20% between you and a non-pvp geared character? You do 10% more, they do 10% less.

 

Tell you what, go put on your best pve gear and go do some wz's. Then come back and cry about how OP full bm gear is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are aware that even if it's only 10%, that translates to a difference of 20% between you and a non-pvp geared character? You do 10% more, they do 10% less.

 

Tell you what, go put on your best pve gear and go do some wz's. Then come back and cry about how OP full bm gear is.

 

Lmao. How clueless can one person be. Not even going to bother responding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right? Knowing that the stat soft caps at roughly 10%, BM upgrades are a complete joke. Not only do PvErs gain more of the crucial stats but they gain more health as well. (lol) I'm just curious as to what your itemization team was thinking before these sets were released.

 

First off, it caps at 15% with soft cap around 13 in full BM. Source? Full BM Rage Juggernaut here. Now you say that expertise is useless? Let's run through a quick scenario:

 

In full BM gear, let's say you have 17k health and deal 1700 dps. Compare this to someone in full PvE with 20k health doing 1800 dps. Due to expertise, the PvE man will do 1592 dps while the BM will do 1921 dps. How long does it take to kill each other, assuming no heals or anything? 10.67 seconds for PvE to kill BM, 10.4 seconds for BM to kill PvE. Now, if you add ANY heals into the mix, PvP man goes so much better it's not even funny. The increase in health/main stat is not worth the damage +/- ratio of expertise. And this is just calculated with 13% expertise vs roughly full rakata PvE. Any lower gear in PvE and the PvP health is MUCH closer, so the expertise is crazy useful. Kthxbai

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, it caps at 15% with soft cap around 13 in full BM. Source? Full BM Rage Juggernaut here. Now you say that expertise is useless? Let's run through a quick scenario:

 

In full BM gear, let's say you have 17k health and deal 1700 dps. Compare this to someone in full PvE with 20k health doing 1800 dps. Due to expertise, the PvE man will do 1592 dps while the BM will do 1921 dps. How long does it take to kill each other, assuming no heals or anything? 10.67 seconds for PvE to kill BM, 10.4 seconds for BM to kill PvE. Now, if you add ANY heals into the mix, PvP man goes so much better it's not even funny. The increase in health/main stat is not worth the damage +/- ratio of expertise. And this is just calculated with 13% expertise vs roughly full rakata PvE. Any lower gear in PvE and the PvP health is MUCH closer, so the expertise is crazy useful. Kthxbai

 

You wont have 17k hp in full BM gear... more like 16k hp if you go your damage/healing set (not tank stat)... also in full BM you will have roughly 1300 unbuffed of your main dps stat (str/aim/cunning/will), with full top quality PVE with augment slots you're looking at around 1700 of main dps stat.

 

basically if you go full PVE you'll have roughly 400 more of your main dps stat along with 3k more hp than if you went BM.

 

Though the best way to do it is to go roughly half PVE, and half PVP regarding gear.

Edited by AndantePhist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

People really don't get that damage reduction >>> HP increase. If you have the following choices: reduce damage taken by 50%, or increase HP by 100%, which one would you choose? I hope you didn't pick the HPs. A character with 50% damage reduction is pretty much immortal in PvP even with some minimal occasional heals, while the guy with twice the HP just takes twice as long to kill usually.

 

The damage increase might be slightly in favor of PvE if you're going from 653->703 (BM-1 to BM) but it's too close to tell without a parser. The defensive bonuses is overwhelmingly in favor of Expertise because unelss you plan on never getting healed in combat, damage mitigation is way more useful than more HPs.

Edited by Astarica
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are aware that even if it's only 10%, that translates to a difference of 20% between you and a non-pvp geared character? You do 10% more, they do 10% less.

 

Tell you what, go put on your best pve gear and go do some wz's. Then come back and cry about how OP full bm gear is.

 

I have full BM and full rakata, as an avid PvPer lately i've just been entering WZ's with my rakata gear because: I am too lazy to switch and I do the same amount of damage or more.

 

Perhaps I take more damage - but not a noticeable amount or enough to make me switch gear constantly.

 

If only the game had a wardrobe feature...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, it caps at 15% with soft cap around 13 in full BM. Source? Full BM Rage Juggernaut here. Now you say that expertise is useless? Let's run through a quick scenario:

 

In full BM gear, let's say you have 17k health and deal 1700 dps. Compare this to someone in full PvE with 20k health doing 1800 dps. Due to expertise, the PvE man will do 1592 dps while the BM will do 1921 dps. How long does it take to kill each other, assuming no heals or anything? 10.67 seconds for PvE to kill BM, 10.4 seconds for BM to kill PvE. Now, if you add ANY heals into the mix, PvP man goes so much better it's not even funny. The increase in health/main stat is not worth the damage +/- ratio of expertise. And this is just calculated with 13% expertise vs roughly full rakata PvE. Any lower gear in PvE and the PvP health is MUCH closer, so the expertise is crazy useful. Kthxbai

 

The problem that he's highlighting isn't Full Battlemaster versus Full Rakata though. The problem with the system currently is that the expertise soft cap is so low (~500, easily achievable even without full Champion gear much less full Battlemaster) that once you get to a point of sufficient diminishing returns, the player's best option is to put Rakata gear in the remaining slots because the gains in primary stats will still scale up linearly while the respective loss in Expertise will amount to a minimal loss because of the lost effectiveness of an extra point of Expertise. In the current model, it's very much possible to get 20k HP, do 1800 DPS AND have ~500 expertise, which makes it unreasonably tough on Battlemasters doing 1700 DPS, using 17-18k HP, and having ~650 expertise.

 

In that scenario, even though the Battlemaster has more PvP gear, and will still lose out because the damage gains from the extra Primary Stat scale linearly, whereas the gains on expertise are asymptotically approaching zero.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have full BM and full rakata, as an avid PvPer lately i've just been entering WZ's with my rakata gear because: I am too lazy to switch and I do the same amount of damage or more.

 

Perhaps I take more damage - but not a noticeable amount or enough to make me switch gear constantly.

 

If only the game had a wardrobe feature...

 

If you have full Rakata you're probably not too worried about dying either.

 

On offense, ignoring any set bonus imbalances, Rakata does slightly less damage than BM, but since there are set bonus imbalances that tend to favor PvE set bonuses, this is usually about even.

 

Survivality is lower in Rakata mostly because you take damage at the same rate as a fraction of your health (slightly more in Rakata really), but it's far easier for a healer to full up 16K HP (full BM) than 19K HP (Rakata) no matter who your healer is. Thus, even though a BM and Rakata loses health at comparable rate (as a % of health), it is always easier to get the BM guy back up.

 

Put it another way, if you're given the option to lose 50% of your health permanently and reduce damage taken by 50%, you should definitely always take it since this would make med packs/heals way overpowered on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You wont have 17k hp in full BM gear... more like 16k hp if you go your damage/healing set (not tank stat)... also in full BM you will have roughly 1300 unbuffed of your main dps stat (str/aim/cunning/will)

 

 

 

I'm at 16500 and 1475 in mostly champion gear.... don't exaggerate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have full Rakata you're probably not too worried about dying either.

 

On offense, ignoring any set bonus imbalances, Rakata does slightly less damage than BM, but since there are set bonus imbalances that tend to favor PvE set bonuses, this is usually about even.

 

Survivality is lower in Rakata mostly because you take damage at the same rate as a fraction of your health (slightly more in Rakata really), but it's far easier for a healer to full up 16K HP (full BM) than 19K HP (Rakata) no matter who your healer is. Thus, even though a BM and Rakata loses health at comparable rate (as a % of health), it is always easier to get the BM guy back up.

 

Put it another way, if you're given the option to lose 50% of your health permanently and reduce damage taken by 50%, you should definitely always take it since this would make med packs/heals way overpowered on you.

 

I know what you're saying but I'm saying the impact isn't huge - and my healer can out-heal 5 people on me anyway so whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You wont have 17k hp in full BM gear... more like 16k hp if you go your damage/healing set (not tank stat)... also in full BM you will have roughly 1300 unbuffed of your main dps stat (str/aim/cunning/will), with full top quality PVE with augment slots you're looking at around 1700 of main dps stat.

 

basically if you go full PVE you'll have roughly 400 more of your main dps stat along with 3k more hp than if you went BM.

 

Though the best way to do it is to go roughly half PVE, and half PVP regarding gear.

 

I'm a deception assassin (a squishy), only in half battlemaster, and I have 16400 hp, and I have 1500 WP. 13% expertise. Next.

Edited by Ahhmyface
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a deception assassin (a squishy), only in half battlemaster, and I have 16400 hp, and I have 1500 WP. 13% expertise. Next.

 

^ What he said. In rage spec juggernaut, I've got 16.6k HP in BM gear. This is not counting my stim. When I switch to my PvE set (3/5 rakata, along with rakata mh/oh/belt/utility pieces/relics) I've only got about 18-19k health, tops. Gains on strength are marginal as well, topping out at around 150-170 more str.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They already said they were going to fix this, and make it so having more expertise will always be beneficial.

 

Not sure when, but they acknowledged this issue.

 

PvP equipment will get slight stat boost within the next 2months more than likely.

 

Do you have a link by chance please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are aware that even if it's only 10%, that translates to a difference of 20% between you and a non-pvp geared character? You do 10% more, they do 10% less.

 

Tell you what, go put on your best pve gear and go do some wz's. Then come back and cry about how OP full bm gear is.

 

Smart players gear for the BM 4 piece (or 2x 2 piece) bonus and stack expertise to around 300-350~ and then fill in the rest of the slots w/ PvE gear.

 

They will probably utterly destroy a full BM-geared player if both are at equal skill levels, since they will maintain around the same offense/defense from expertise, but the one w/ PvE offpieces will hit harder and have more health.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...