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Strike Fighters = Unbeatable?


ThutmoseV's Avatar


ThutmoseV
05.19.2019 , 01:28 PM | #11
What is really unbeatable is teamwork. A mixture of ship capabilities working together is the hardest to deal with.

I'm not a bomber specialist and not an especially good evasive bomber pilot but I do use them occasionally. I still solo queue most of the time and when I started I always took concussion and seismic when I flew that type of bomber, because that was the best way to kill attacking scouts without any help. When I had some chances to play with a group on voice they wanted me to switch to interdiction mines. If I had help from teammates interdiction mines made it easier for teammates to kill attackers. They also preferred I use interdiction drone instead of railgun drone on that type of bomber for the same reason.

Hyperspace beacons are extremely useful in domination, try to put it close to sats but with a some cover. On the Denon map some coordinated groups will have a bomber delay spawning until another bomber has placed a beacon halfway to B, then spawn with a full engine power pool and get to B faster.

A lone bomber can be defeated, especially by 2 attackers that make it harder for bombers to los both attackers. But if teammates are helping the bomber the attackers need a lot more attackers, or those attackers have to be way better than the defenders. A gunship at range behind the sat can stay out of range of enemy gunships and shoot any scouts or strikes that come after the bomber. A scout or strike teammate has an easier time dogfighting around a sat if the enemy has to watch out for mines. They can also go after enemy gunships trying to get good position, or try to intercept enemy bombers in open space. Protorps are a big reason bombers can be in big trouble in open space.

While voice makes it easier, even without it a bit of common sense on the part of players should enable them to see when they should be helping defend sats.

The formula for winning domination is simple, if you can ever get the middle sat and one of the others. Once you have 2 sats, put a bomber on each one, then most of the rest of the team should be a mobile force moving between the 2 sats as needed. The 3rd sat should be probed a bit to keep them honest, but never attacked in strength at the expense of holding the other 2.

Never leave a sat undefended, unless you need to take another sat so quickly to have a chance that you have to take a risk. I have seen a group of ships rush away from a recently taken sat and rush to the next sat, leaving the newly taken sat undefended. A good player can knock out all 3 turrets and start capping an undefended sat in about 10 seconds. Even 1 defender can usually slow attackers down long enough for help to come if teammates are paying attention. That's why bombers should always take communication sensors.
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dahaga's Avatar


dahaga
12.15.2019 , 03:42 AM | #12
Honestly if they just copied WarThunder flying system it would work milion times better SF are weird as **** and extremly incoinsistent half of features it has are practicaly useless and all it has is warhead meta

Verain's Avatar


Verain
12.15.2019 , 10:54 AM | #13
I guess May to December is not the silliest of necros. At least it is like the same year and all.

War Thunder is decently more realistic than GSF, and what it simulates is pretty different. You can turn altitude into advantages there, etc.

An interesting idea and all, but there were probably several reasons why it wasn't in the cards.
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Stncold's Avatar


Stncold
12.15.2019 , 11:53 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
Sounds to me like your describing a tick bomber. Those are slaughtered by veteran pilots fairly easily. The only ones they do well against are a team of new players. Some of the best bomber pilots I've seen flew all around/over/under the sats in a unpredictable way when the enemy is attacking the sat, not just sitting there.
Exactly it. Most people don't build their strikes for turning. Random unpredictable turns will give even great pilots trouble staying on you. Your only real threat will be clarion/imperiums built specifically for bomber busting because they have the turning to keep up easier and tankiness to take a mine hit or three. And not many people run those. A good flashfire/sting could be a problem but with them it's a race. Either they kill you quick or they take two mine hits and either die or have to back off.
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ForfiniteStories's Avatar


ForfiniteStories
12.16.2019 , 07:41 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by dahaga View Post
Honestly if they just copied WarThunder flying system it would work milion times better SF are weird as **** and extremly incoinsistent half of features it has are practicaly useless and all it has is warhead meta
Except that GSF is like World of Tanks.

Tank destroyers/Pre nerf Artillery = Gunships.

hehehe

Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
12.21.2019 , 10:57 AM | #16
It certainly seems like it at times. I'm a T2 Scout main and a Rapids user and I have a really hard time getting through the shields of a Strike sometimes. A Strike running Quick-Charge Shields can be a very tough nut to crack, surprising given the raw firepower a Flashfire/Sting can put out. Worse, Protons have ridiculous range and can one-shot a Scout that isn't using Reinforced Armor. It's partially because of that I run Hydro Spanner now, mainly as a self heal so I don't need to rely on bombers, but also because I can use it to just barely survive the DoT after a Proton hits.

They're not unbeatable, but they're certainly much tougher than they once were, and so as a Scout I generally try to avoid them unless I see a teammate engaging one and I can safely assist against it. Otherwise I tend to stay away from them and go after Gunships instead.

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
12.21.2019 , 07:56 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Loadsamonie View Post
It certainly seems like it at times. I'm a T2 Scout main and a Rapids user and I have a really hard time getting through the shields of a Strike sometimes. A Strike running Quick-Charge Shields can be a very tough nut to crack, surprising given the raw firepower a Flashfire/Sting can put out. Worse, Protons have ridiculous range and can one-shot a Scout that isn't using Reinforced Armor. It's partially because of that I run Hydro Spanner now, mainly as a self heal so I don't need to rely on bombers, but also because I can use it to just barely survive the DoT after a Proton hits.

They're not unbeatable, but they're certainly much tougher than they once were, and so as a Scout I generally try to avoid them unless I see a teammate engaging one and I can safely assist against it. Otherwise I tend to stay away from them and go after Gunships instead.
If your using a T2 scout, I'd highly suggest you try Burst laser cannons instead of Rapid fire lasers. While Rapids have gotten buffed they really don't do that well Vs a target that flies evasively.
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Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
12.21.2019 , 10:49 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
If your using a T2 scout, I'd highly suggest you try Burst laser cannons instead of Rapid fire lasers. While Rapids have gotten buffed they really don't do that well Vs a target that flies evasively.
I know Bursts are statistically superior, but I tend to perform better with Rapids. I get more consistent results with them, especially since I run Clusters and not Pods. I also have far less weapon power issues with Rapids, so much so that I can comfortably use Frequency Capacitor and Blizz and not have any problems.

It's only because they were buffed though. If they didn't have Ignore Armor I wouldn't use them. But mainly my T2 Scout is Rapids/Clusters/TT for Dogfighting, while my T1 Scout is Lights/Pods/EMP and mostly for Jousting and sometimes attacking satellites.

I'm thinking of switching it up though, going Rapids/Pods and either EMP or TT on T1 Scout, and then Bursts/Clusters/TT on T2 Scout.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
12.24.2019 , 11:26 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Loadsamonie View Post
It certainly seems like it at times. I'm a T2 Scout main and a Rapids user and I have a really hard time getting through the shields of a Strike sometimes.
Does this sound like something that should be really good versus a strike? Rapid fire laser is not an amazing dps gun, and requires you to stay on target quite tightly. It's strengths are:
+Decent ability to land a minor hit when chasing around corners, hurting shield regeneration
+Low cost to fire
+ignores armor (hull damage reduction needs nothing to this gun)
+good dps for a stationary target undernose
For this reason, it's rather strong at chasing bombers around nodes, but should it be nearly as good at strikes as it is at bombers?
Note that quick charge shield explicitly negates the top advantage- shield regeneration. The weapon has no access to shield piercing, a solid pick versus strikes. It has no access to instantaneous burst (that would be burst laser cannon), nor extreme dps (that would be light laser cannon)

For years, RFL was a meme-gun, a joke. Now, it's a good gun. I run it if I expect to see armor on a node. But I do not recommend it on type 2 scout. Consider Light Laser Cannon or Burst Laser Cannon, if your gripe is not being good against strike fighters.

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A Strike running Quick-Charge Shields can be a very tough nut to crack, surprising given the raw firepower a Flashfire/Sting can put out.
Everyone praising the raw dps of a flashfire is assuming said flashfire is not running RFL.

Quote:
I also have far less weapon power issues with Rapids, so much so that I can comfortably use Frequency Capacitor and Blizz and not have any problems
I don't feel "Why does not Frequency Capacitor, the largest capacitor, not simply eat the other capacitors?" is a good approach here. You shouldn't feel the need to run a specific capacitor and let that influence your weapon choice- rather, you should select your weapon, and then choose the capacitor you are pretty sure is best for you there. For burst laser cannon, this really shouldn't be frequency capacitor (it should be range or damage). For rapid fire laser, frequency is a risky pick- you get that raw multiplicative 15% fire rate (versus the 10% damage being added in additively with something), but each individual rapid his is so damned small. Consider light laser as well, of course- burst laser canon and rapid fire laser literally could not be further apart.

Quote:
Worse, Protons have ridiculous range and can one-shot a Scout that isn't using Reinforced Armor.
Or hydro spanner, as you go into. Generally, a scout needs to be willing to sacrifice either top tier railgun defense (lightweight armor) or offense (copilot) to be able to tank a proton. Note that the scout still has access to a 2 and a 3 button that break missiles.
The real problem here shouldn't be actually getting hammered with protons an unreasonable amount (fly more defensively if that is happening), the real issue should be the effects of being forced to fly defensively.

Quote:
They're not unbeatable, but they're certainly much tougher than they once were, and so as a Scout I generally try to avoid them unless I see a teammate engaging one and I can safely assist against it. Otherwise I tend to stay away from them and go after Gunships instead.
I think this is a pretty fine call, for two reasons. First, a scout on a gunship usually deroosts it much faster, and will frequently kill it much faster, than any other thing you can bring to bear upon it. Second, a scout remains solid at swapping to a second target, and remains solid at flying defensively: you can have several dps strikes uselessly pursuing you on a scout. They will peel you, but they will have a harder time killing you.

Quote:
I'm thinking of switching it up though, going Rapids/Pods and either EMP or TT on T1 Scout, and then Bursts/Clusters/TT on T2 Scout.
This sounds pretty solid- in this case, each of your scouts is becoming more focused on a given situation. You'll probably like the results of this, is my guess.
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Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
12.25.2019 , 02:58 PM | #20
The only thing to consider then is what works better for Bursts, 16% extra Hull Damage, or 18% extra Shield Damage. I use Shield Piercing on Bursts as well.

Even with BLC's though, I still have a hard time engaging Strikes. I can take them one on one in a turn-heavy dogfight, but if I decide to play chicken and go heads up against one, I lose every time.