Has there yet been an opportunity for Hatred sins to test the new builds/items? I am very curious if Hatred (mainly for PVP) is going to be in a better or worse place than it currently is on live.

Thanks in advance for any feedback all of you testers can provide!

Outside of reg warzone node capping there is no use of this tactical in ranked, it is completely not worth a tactical slot for double cap at the start of an arena, it won't affect it at this point of fight in any significant manner the way for example The Life Warden would with a heal-to-full cooldown.

 

Shadow Step being a dps increase for Deception would only occur if all other (including general) tacticals are garbage, as for darkness dps increase there are general tacticals that increase dps. Greased Lightning for example giving a flat 5% dps gain, so if we have a 350 dps increase on ST then taking the wither tactical with 2,5% sustained DR has no point, especially since sustained dtps doesn't matter as much as smoothness of the damage taken.

But that's just it. The point of tacticals is for ppl to play the way they want, content they want. There should be something for everyone. For ppl that enjoy offnode work in regs they will like double sap, for others it will be useless and they'll pick something else.

Wither tactical gives 2.5% DR per stack, but it stacks up to 8. Last I checked on PTS, the stacks are not only refreshed on Wither, but also increased. So even in PvE scenario with boss without adds you could have 20% DR.

possible scenario: use Multitrap tactical, while you are in stealth => sap two people => switch tactical => attack third person

I don't think this is intended, but I'm also sure it's being exploited especially in ranked.

Plesae give us some feedback on Hatred for PVP... I want to know if they will be better than deception and how viable they will be in PVP.

Thanks. All I see in this thread is deception... sad.

Redirected Wrath is actually rlly rlly strong. if u can manage to keep it up and hit wither at just the right time on a single target you can refresh and gain an extra stack until u hit 8 stacks. this gives an extra 20% dr if you can maintain this. with alacrity this becomes easier.

here is a sample of this:

Plesae give us some feedback on Hatred for PVP... I want to know if they will be better than deception and how viable they will be in PVP.

 

Thanks. All I see in this thread is deception... sad.

I'm an old school Hatred fan. Some initial thoughts below.

This combo look interesting to me, but I haven't tested yet:

Set Bonus

Saber Master - (4) Reduces the cooldown of Overcharge Saber by 20 seconds. (6) Killing an enemy during Overcharge Saber refreshes the duration of Overcharge Saber. Can occur up to 5 times during one Overcharge Saber.

Tactical

Hungering Blade - Critically hitting with Leeching Strike resets its cooldown and increases the critical chance of the next Leeching Strike. Stacks up to 3 times.

Basically:

A lot more self heals via more Overcharge Saber usage and Leeching Strike CD resets and crits. (need to run really high crit?)

Potentially easier energy management from more Leeching Strike force refunds.

Lightning Charge procs more via increased Overcharge Saber usage, thus more dps and heals.

IMO, this will be pretty good for PVE raids, and the damage/self heals will be decent, but not incredible, for PVP. Couple all that with the leeching amplifiers.....

It's hard to say without testing in a match though.

SUGGESTION to dev team:

Get rid of the upfront 15% healing on Overcharge Saber and increase the heals (and damage if possible) from dots and procs during Overcharge Saber. This makes the ability feel like more of an attack buff, not a DCD.

Redirected Wrath is actually rlly rlly strong. if u can manage to keep it up and hit wither at just the right time on a single target you can refresh and gain an extra stack until u hit 8 stacks. this gives an extra 20% dr if you can maintain this. with alacrity this becomes easier.

here is a sample of this:

That's what I think devs intended, to put some alacrity to reduce GCD in order to use this tactical to it's full capacity. I really like that idea, because it's a trade-off. You swap a bit of shi/abs for alac in order to gain some DR. It's not a coincidence that Wither CD and stack duration are both 8s. And it's not that really OP because many bosses, especially recent ones, have some knock back, stun or silence mechanic which can make your stacks expire.

There's no way that a perma 20% damage reduction can be intended, especially since it's provided by doing a clunky broken rotation with delaying gcds. But it's easy fix, with next patch I suppose we'll see Wither refresh the stacks instead of stacking them up on subsequent uses.

I believe it was supposed to be an aoe tactical so few suggestions

- 8 targets/8stacks cap is too much, it should be lowered to 4 or maximum 5 and provide more DR on each stack instead, there are pretty much no real situations where we have more than 4 targets, usually it's max 3 or 3+boss.

Shadow Step - make it give a 2nd Force Speed charge instead + some small additional utility, Force Cloak resetting cooldown on Force Speed or additional stack on Recklessness idk; 2 stacks on both Force Speed and Phasing Phantasm might be too much... - both utility and defensive tactical that can be useful for all specs.

Ward of the Continuum - make it give additional shield chance on Dark Ward, but more than twice of DR % that Redirected Wrath provides at 1 stacks so it is better on single target bosses.

Also about the spike 6-piece - ok, well that's kinda nice if other set bonuses were not providing substantial dps increase, but assassin tanks don't need an additional active mitigation cooldown, it's already op in that regard.

6 piece could give a 2nd force speed charge too heh...

As I suspected, since I'm playing Hatred spec since 2014, Hungering Blade isn't that good due to poor Force management.

You use it once, still got enough Force to continue to do dmg/spread dots, use it twice (2nd crit) you begin to lack the Force if you get a chance to get that 3rd Leeching Strike crit.

The problem is the cost of that 3rd Leeching crit, it just costs too much to the point that you have to spam basic strike attack just to get enough energy to use Leeching 3rd time, unless your proc for the 3rd expire which is most likely.

My suggestion would be to keep the cost of Force Leech at the same Force price, without any increase, 'cause Hatred already has poor Force regen even with GCD 3.

For testing this particular Tactical, I've used 3 dummies at the same time (dot spread) just to make a "real environment" for that spec.

To explain, since it's a dot spec, you have to spam lacerate to spread and that costs the Force also. That way, it's almost impossible to get enough Force points for the 3rd crit.

Leeching strike.

As I suspected, since I'm playing Hatred spec since 2014, Hungering Blade isn't that good due to poor Force management.

 

You use it once, still got enough Force to continue to do dmg/spread dots, use it twice (2nd crit) you begin to lack the Force if you get a chance to get that 3rd Leeching Strike crit.

 

The problem is the cost of that 3rd Leeching crit, it just costs too much to the point that you have to spam basic strike attack just to get enough energy to use Leeching 3rd time, unless your proc for the 3rd expire which is most likely.

 

My suggestion would be to keep the cost of Force Leech at the same Force price, without any increase, 'cause Hatred already has poor Force regen even with GCD 3.

 

For testing this particular Tactical, I've used 3 dummies at the same time (dot spread) just to make a "real environment" for that spec.

 

To explain, since it's a dot spec, you have to spam lacerate to spread and that costs the Force also. That way, it's almost impossible to get enough Force points for the 3rd crit.

Leeching strike.

I ended up just clicking off the buff that increases its force cost and crit chance at 1-2 stacks or just waiting until it falls off on its own. the tactical still increases the amount of leeching strikes this way but also leaves enough force to do the rest of the rotation

Any chance of putting assassins death field radius back to something useful, it was reduced because it used to spread dots too much for a melee class, then you removed dot spread from it and put it on lacerate instead, your lucky if you can clip 2-3 targets with it these days, so the force slow spread item is going to be pretty much useless if it remains the current radius.

 

And will ask again since it never gets an answer, absorb mods for tanks and or shield absorb enhancements, tanks are putting dps into mod slots because the diminishing on 4k + Defense is insane, tank relics ... no one uses them due to no endurance all this stuff has been broken since 4.0 making tanks the most painful class to gear since 4.0

 

Is anyone really surprised why tanks are the hardest thing to find with the current game meta

This radius loss is also what irreversibly destroyed Madness sorcs. They put the same radius on a medium cooldown dot spread ability, that no cooldown dot spreads of other classes get. Think virulence and the spammable small radius spread; this is why it was designed this way originally by Zoeller(?). This is why DF had a large radius and medium cooldown. Taking this radius down to 5m while keeping the same cooldown and damage, effectively killed the specs.

I've really tried over the years just to get noticed with the suggestions on how to improve Hatred spec and gave several reasons why nerfing Hatred with Lacerate etc was a bad move through posts, message to Musco etc and all of it was pointless.

While other classes got buffs over the years, Hatred was the same, literally broken after nerfing Death Field and making Lacerate spreading dots.

Not to mention the bug where when you use Force Cloak while having dots on someone, those little heals were visible to anyone even when you're in stealth, so Force Cloak was useless. Also you stayed aggroed even when you vanished, thus not be able to regenerate out of combat, cause you were still in combat lol.

The only thing that could save you from enemies running to you while seeing those little heals while you're invisible (but not really invisible) was a phase walk and they even took that away.

I guess that in 5 years, nobody even bothered to read any of my posts or message.

This is literally my last try to help this spec get the improvement that it deserves. If it doesnt with 6.0, I'm gonna give up on sins. They destroyed Hatred years ago and they destroyed Deception after 5.0 so the only sin spec worth playing is a skank tank and lets be honest, only a few players can play sin skank tanks properly.

I've really tried over the years just to get noticed with the suggestions on how to improve Hatred spec and gave several reasons why nerfing Hatred with Lacerate etc was a bad move through posts, message to Musco etc and all of it was pointless.

 

While other classes got buffs over the years, Hatred was the same, literally broken after nerfing Death Field and making Lacerate spreading dots.

 

Not to mention the bug where when you use Force Cloak while having dots on someone, those little heals were visible to anyone even when you're in stealth, so Force Cloak was useless. Also you stayed aggroed even when you vanished, thus not be able to regenerate out of combat, cause you were still in combat lol.

 

The only thing that could save you from enemies running to you while seeing those little heals while you're invisible (but not really invisible) was a phase walk and they even took that away.

 

I guess that in 5 years, nobody even bothered to read any of my posts or message.

 

This is literally my last try to help this spec get the improvement that it deserves. If it doesnt with 6.0, I'm gonna give up on sins. They destroyed Hatred years ago and they destroyed Deception after 5.0 so the only sin spec worth playing is a skank tank and lets be honest, only a few players can play sin skank tanks properly.

I feel the same way, I simply cannot reconcile playing hatred since they changed the dot spread mechanic to lacerate. I only play tank now for your aforementioned reasons.