This discussion again...

Enragetimers are a cheap mechanic, i agree with that.

But they are, to some extend, a way to force DPS to do their job!

If you fail at enrage timers, your DPS is doing something horribly wrong.

Analyse why, change it -> profit.

Or: "If they are to strong, you are to weak"

It is realy that easy!

I have never had a problem with enrage on any HM EC boss, Granted I agree with the Denova Lag, but once you get that group cohesion you never hit enrage timers

same here

Seriously Bioware? Ok, so this is going to sound like I'm whining, well, the truth in fact is, that I am whining. There are some operation bosses in this game that just should not have enrage timers, or maybe not a 200% damage increase, maybe a 50% damage increase, or 75%... Take HM Zorn and Toth for example; The mechanics of this fight alone are enough to make you want to rip your damn hair out. So last night 3 or 4 times we get these guys down to 8% (now i have beat them before, have the codex for HM, etc) and BAM, 200% damage increase, raid wipe... Come on guys, game mechanics are superb, people are almost guaranteed to die at least once in this fight if they screw up, but the sudden 200% damage buff followed shortly by a wipe....

 

This HAS to be one of the major reasons people are leaving this game. I know I'm fed up with it to the point that I just dont want to do it anymore. It's one thing to rely on 1 or 2 people to do their jobs flawleslly, it's another thing entirely to rely on 7 other people + their internet connection + the Denova lag (I think everybody here knows what i'm talking about on this last one). So seriously, is the 200% damage increase and uber short enrage timer REALLY needed? I've seen several groups wipe before they could even hit an enrage timer... I'd really like to see a developer response on this. Why can't you guys come up with something better than a friggin enrage for every dang fight in this game?

 

Sorry for the complaining, if you have nothing nice to say, go ahead and follow it up, but think about the logic here before you do so. I love mechanics, but the enrage on every single boss has to go.

god help us all if they took those timers out it would make HM worse than SM ops now there HM for a reason so you will hit those timers if your team members DPS are rotten also the placement of the players we kill Z/T easy in HM but all it takes is 1 bad DPS and if that's the case your not ready for a HM EC simple run a dps meter see where the problem is with the DPS in your team then work with the player or players to increase there damage. But asking for enrage timers to be removed will never happen they are there for a reason and that's to make it more of a challange.

Do more damage

This. if your DPS hasnt done any research on rotations/stats/builds odds are your gona come up short. Beat their asses and make them do more damage .

You could make make the argument that a few of the enrage timers in HM EC are a little too finely tuned, by which I mean you're really shaving it close when you get them down. But frankly, I kind of like that.

 

I like that there's a mechanic that puts expectations on your DPS, skillwise. The Vael BWL fight in WoW was always a favourite of mine, because until you overgeared for the fight, it was a great test of the skill of your DPS players, to maximize their output.

 

There are people in my raid group who also hate enrage timers, and I just don't get it. The only other option would to make fights a lot shorter, but nerf energy/force regeneration significantly, so at some point the healers are literally incapable of keeping the tanks alive any more. But how is that practically different from an enrage timer?

 

Where you really lose me, is when you mention that someone is guaranteed to die on Zorn and Toth, as an argument against them. No - someone is not guaranteed to die on Z&T, if your guild is prepared and coordinated, which is the entire point. Raids are rests of skill and group coordination. Enrage timers are the "test" for the DPs classes - can they take the boss down fast enough? If not, then maybe your gear isn't good enough yet, or maybe they simply aren't skilled enough.

 

Otherwise, why not take half as much DPS, double up the healers, and make every boss fight insanely easy, since you can take all day to kill stuff?

 

Lastly, enrage timers aren't even guaranteed wipes in this game. In one of my guilds most memorable (and terrible) Soa kills, we had one DPS disconnect early on, and another die at the last phase. The result was us fighting an enraged Soa for over a minute, and only one healer and one DPS standing by the end - but we got him down. One of the loudest cheers over our voice server that I've ever heard, because it was so terrible but awesome.

 

If you are constantly running into problems with enrage timers, your guild members need to look inward, not outward, for the problem. The timers in this game aren't terribly forgiving, but they can be beaten.

I've tanked Soa through enrage for several minutes because our DPS was pitiful. Soa is a joke. That said, enrage timers are a good thing. I'd rather have an enrage timer that gives double damage than the one for LR-5. Nothing says party wipe like a massive lightning bubble on the boss.... Enrages make bosses harder and for some like Bulwark in D7, they actually took effort to kill. Now that the enrage has been lengthened that fight is boring

are you kidding me the enrage times is too short?!?!?.. I have to scream at the rest of my raid to stop dpsing on this fight because we dps so hard its skipping phases i.e. toth jumping to zorn or jumping too early while in his frenzy so he misses the rock being tossed at him.. i killed myself like 3 times last week b/c the time i got back to zorn i still had fearful

As this happened the first time we thought it was a bug after we realised we did "to much damage" xD

Enrage timers are largely an easily implemented raid mechanic for unimaginative content designers. There are other, more creative ways to require that a raid group bring more than just tanks and healers to a fight.

Nothing is more frustrating than working a mob down to about 2% health only to have it enrage and wipe the party. More often than not, this is what happens.

Enrage timers are largely an easily implemented raid mechanic for unimaginative content designers. There are other, more creative ways to require that a raid group bring more than just tanks and healers to a fight.

 

Nothing is more frustrating than working a mob down to about 2% health only to have it enrage and wipe the party. More often than not, this is what happens.

At this point you know what and where you ahve to improve adn in the next few pulls your hopefully kill the boss.

That is exactly the point of enrage timers. Its a boot in the backside for your DPS.

Enrage timers are largely an easily implemented raid mechanic for unimaginative content designers. There are other, more creative ways to require that a raid group bring more than just tanks and healers to a fight.

 

Nothing is more frustrating than working a mob down to about 2% health only to have it enrage and wipe the party. More often than not, this is what happens.

Please enlighten us on these other, more creative way to require a raid group bring more than just tanks and healers.

I realize I'm being snarky here, but on the off-chance that you have an actual suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Enrage timers are largely an easily implemented raid mechanic for unimaginative content designers. There are other, more creative ways to require that a raid group bring more than just tanks and healers to a fight.

 

Nothing is more frustrating than working a mob down to about 2% health only to have it enrage and wipe the party. More often than not, this is what happens.

If you can't kill them when the enrage timer pops at 2% health, well then you just need to get better and maybe try.

Please enlighten us on these other, more creative way to require a raid group bring more than just tanks and healers.

 

I realize I'm being snarky here, but on the off-chance that you have an actual suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Adds, lost real estate due to "fire", gradual loss of firepower due to control effects (a la Maalus from EQ2). To name a few. (please note, I'm not saying they're all diamonds, particularly for this game)

You could call them all enrages of one form or another, and maybe you'd even be right, but you also have to admit they're a lot more interesting and creative than "oh, look it's been six and a half minutes, think I'll hit harder now".

Heck, many of them exist within the framework of this very game, yet they still feel the need to tag on an additional enrage, in at least one case completely invalidating the usefulness of it (Karagga).

are you kidding me the enrage times is too short?!?!?.. I have to scream at the rest of my raid to stop dpsing on this fight because we dps so hard its skipping phases i.e. toth jumping to zorn or jumping too early while in his frenzy so he misses the rock being tossed at him.. i killed myself like 3 times last week b/c the time i got back to zorn i still had fearful

Regarding this, same thing happens to our guild in HM. We actually stop DPSing during yellow circles (around 74%) to the boulder can be thrown, otherwise you force the next jump.

If you can't kill them when the enrage timer pops at 2% health, well then you just need to get better and maybe try.

If any raid I've ever been on hit the enrage timer when the mob was still at 10 or 20 percent, I'd agree with you; but that's rarely the case. If we ever wipe to an enrage timer, it's usually after we've gotten the boss down to at least 5% health and usually happens on range-friendly fights with a nearly all melee DPS raid group. Sometimes, this can be a difference of like 5 seconds, meaning we failed the raid entirely due to some arbitrary developer-created timer. If said developer had been feeling especially generous and extended the enrage timer by even as little as 10 seconds, we would have easily cleared the boss. That is stupid.

That's what cooldowns and adrenals are for =X

Anyway, like I said earlier, while it's getting stale at this point I don't MIND enrage timers, but only if they can't be directly affected due to bugs.

Which is why, as I said, the turrent enrage on the mindfield needs to be extended or eliminated altogether until they can resolve bug issues where the guy in the tower despawns almost as soon as he goes into the hologram phase, or he finds the droid but it just never spawns for some reason.

Wiping because you hit a droid enrage means that you failed a DPS check. Wiping because the game bugged and you were forced to take too long to get through the minefield because you couldn't actually summon the droid to begin DPSing him is a design flaw.

I don't see what's the big deal.

There is boss, I hit him. He starts killing people around me, I keep on hitting him. He tries to kill me, so do I to him. He kills me, oh well, it happens. Next time I'll hit him harder.

If we can't get even close to killing boss, I guess we shouldn't be in this ops yet.

If any raid I've ever been on hit the enrage timer when the mob was still at 10 or 20 percent, I'd agree with you; but that's rarely the case. If we ever wipe to an enrage timer, it's usually after we've gotten the boss down to at least 5% health and usually happens on range-friendly fights with a nearly all melee DPS raid group. Sometimes, this can be a difference of like 5 seconds, meaning we failed the raid entirely due to some arbitrary developer-created timer. If said developer had been feeling especially generous and extended the enrage timer by even as little as 10 seconds, we would have easily cleared the boss. That is stupid.

Every enrage timer is arbitrary then. Seriously, Just pop stims,adrenals,don't die,minimise downtime in combat,tighten rotations,tighten gear,get a better strat,get better players the list for improvement goes on.

We had our first HM T & Z attempts this weekend. We killed one boss and routinely got the other down to 5-10% and hit the enrage timer.

Our repsonse was simple. We need to tighten up what we are doing and we need to get better . This reset we will probably stroll into HM EC and blow them up in a few attempts.

Just admit that theres PEKAC happening, fix that and youre golden. Its not like these fights are patchwerk 1.0 here.

Seriously Bioware? Ok, so this is going to sound like I'm whining, well, the truth in fact is, that I am whining. There are some operation bosses in this game that just should not have enrage timers, or maybe not a 200% damage increase, maybe a 50% damage increase, or 75%... Take HM Zorn and Toth for example; The mechanics of this fight alone are enough to make you want to rip your damn hair out. So last night 3 or 4 times we get these guys down to 8% (now i have beat them before, have the codex for HM, etc) and BAM, 200% damage increase, raid wipe... Come on guys, game mechanics are superb, people are almost guaranteed to die at least once in this fight if they screw up, but the sudden 200% damage buff followed shortly by a wipe....

 

This HAS to be one of the major reasons people are leaving this game. I know I'm fed up with it to the point that I just dont want to do it anymore. It's one thing to rely on 1 or 2 people to do their jobs flawleslly, it's another thing entirely to rely on 7 other people + their internet connection + the Denova lag (I think everybody here knows what i'm talking about on this last one). So seriously, is the 200% damage increase and uber short enrage timer REALLY needed? I've seen several groups wipe before they could even hit an enrage timer... I'd really like to see a developer response on this. Why can't you guys come up with something better than a friggin enrage for every dang fight in this game?

 

Sorry for the complaining, if you have nothing nice to say, go ahead and follow it up, but think about the logic here before you do so. I love mechanics, but the enrage on every single boss has to go.

People wanting content to be spoon fed to them! GASP! Bioware could not possibly make a challenging fight, that wouldn't be a raid.

In other news my guild has done HM EC 4 times and I know of people who have done it even more.

People wanting content to be spoon fed to them! GASP! Bioware could not possibly make a challenging fight, that wouldn't be a raid.

 

In other news my guild has done HM EC 4 times and I know of people who have done it even more.

lol ive lost count of how many times our guild has done it now. My main is completely campaign geared and 2 of my alts are half camp/rakata gear. there are hundreds of guilds (possibly thousands?) out there that are clearing this on a weekly basis. The recent nerf to stacking armor pen debuffs hurt overall raid DPS but as long as you were beating enrage timers before they fixed that u should be fine. If not. Suck it up and learn to max your dps builds.

Anyone who honestly believes that enrage timers are too harsh a mechanic probably should not be running HM Operations in the first place.