Currently my PT is lvl 43 and I am PVPing my way to lvl 50 so I can max out both my ranked and regular WZ coms to buy both my WH main hand and offhand as soon as I ding 50, right now my PT is 31/3/0 build and she just destroys everything in her path in lowbie PVP coming out of most battle without a scratch on her, but I know from past experience (have a WH Operative and WH Marader) that lvl 50 is a whole new ball game.... so with that being said...

I know the amount of people who play PT Tanks in lvl 50 PVP is pretty slim and while searching the forums I haven't noticed too much about how PT tanks perform in lvl 50 PVP, I know you guys are out there so I just want to know if you could fill me in on some of the specifics such as....

1) is a shield tech build viable for pvp (do you actually have enough power to kill someone if you are wearing full Super Commando PVP gear)

2) what role do you usually find yourself playing, guarding nodes, guarding healers, running interference while others cap nodes or all of the above

3) What type of augments do you guys use in your PVP armor, main stat? defense? absorb? endurance? power? or a combo of all of them, should I have more augments of one type over the other?

4) What build do you guys use, is this 31/8/2, seems like a solid build for 50 PVP? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMsbZb.2

Thanks

Shieldtech is not really viable in PvP. Yes you will be more suvivable if you use a set of defensive super commando warhero & spec shieldtech, but your damage will be so much lower that you will not be able to burst anyone down effectively. That isn't your aim obviously as a tank, but unfortunately in SWTOR's pvp bursting critical players down as fast as possible is king.

The things most hurting is that defensive stats (be it defense or shield/absorb) are only about 50% effective in PvP. Defense and Shield only works on melee & ranged attacks, but not on force & tech attacks (roughly half the classes use mainly force or mainly tech). Yet you pay the same amount of stat allocation points for them.

So if you get an item with +20 power and +20 crit, those stat points boost all your attacks in pvp, i.e. they work 100%. But take an item with +20 defense and +20 shield rating, and those stat points only boost your defense against roughly half the incoming attacks.

So what this means is, that when you face someone in full DPS gear while you wear full Defense gear, they will have a massive advantage over you if they have one or more main attacks that are force or tech based. And if they don't, it will be equal. That is hardly fair.

What I would advise, is if you really want to play a supportive role, still get an offensive war hero set, spec either AP for more damage or Shieldtech for more survivability, but do not believe Bioware's old promise where they said all specs are within 10% dps of one another...if you spec Shieldtech your damage will be 20-30% lower than AP or Pyrotech. Using Ion Gas Cylinder with AP works pretty well and allows you to guard other players while stilling dealing a respectable amount of damage.

You can use a shield generator, but know that even with Ion Gas Cylinder active it will provide a mere 2% damage reduction on average (20% chance to reduce damage by 20% on 50% of the incoming attacks = 2%). Without Ion Gas Cylinder it will provide a mere 0.5% damage reduction (lol). On the other hand a power generator will provide you with roughly 200 more techpower, which should be around a 5% boost regardless of what cylinder you use. Again defense vs offense is not in balance.

Thanks for all the help, I am really bummed out now though that PT Tanking in lvl 50 PVP with PVP TANKING ARMOR is not a viable spec to play because I am having a ton of fun with it in lowbie pvp! Bioware really needs to buff the tanking tree and/or the tanking armor! I want to be able to play a shield tech spec in super commando armor in 50 pvp!

Well you can still give it a go, you just won't find yourself very useful without a strong supporting cast. Without an on-demand slow, longer on-proc slow, an AOE slow, or partial cc immunity you won't be as annoying to opponents either. Until the design philosophy behind the vg/pt changes you won't have any "oh ****" cooldowns to save you in a tough spot.

I played ST spec since December 2011. It is a viable PvP spec, but it takes a lot of practice to play right.

1v1, this spec is absolutely worthless. You have no burst DPS at all, and almost every class with exception of DPS Mercenary and Commando will murder you. Healers will just LOL-heal your damage. If you want to see the big numbers over enemy heads, this is not the class for you. Damage of ST spec is abysmal.

In group PvP is where ST shines. I always take control of the turrets/objectives and guard them. It takes a long time for anyone to kill me with 24k health and 1250 expertise; and while they are killing me, I can call in back up and save the point. In mass combat situation, I guard the healer, fire my taunt darts at enemy DPS characters, and disrupt the enemy healers with quell, stun dart, and carbonize. When paired with good healer I can tank four people consistently.

As far as abilities go, this class is very fun to play. I really enjoy it. You have pull, jet charge, carbonize, flame sweep, DFA, guard, taunt darts, rocket punch, unload, and flame thrower. In Huttball I can play Tim Teebow on steroids when there is a good healer and off-tank present. I can walk the ball into the end-zone while being pummeled by all eight enemy players.

For the build, I have 32/7/2. All of my augments are Reflex Augments +12 Endurance, +18 Aim.

That being said, give the class a try. Find yourself a healer, team up with him and play for objectives. I find playing ST very fun and rewarding. I haven't switched my spec once, even though my guild mates asked me to go DPS countless times.

1) is a shield tech build viable for pvp (do you actually have enough power to kill someone if you are wearing full Super Commando PVP gear)

Pay no attention to the naysayers, it's perfectly viable for 50 PvP. Yes, you have enough power to cause damage. 300k damage, 200k protection is not uncommon for me. Wearing a full set of Supercommando armor is pointless though, see #3 for the gear I use. PT tank damage is better than Jugg tanks, but still less than Assassin tanks.

2) what role do you usually find yourself playing, guarding nodes, guarding healers, running interference while others cap nodes or all of the above

You want to be in the thick of things, where all the action is. You have a lot of AoE at your disposal, including an AoE taunt. Run w/ a guild healer and toss guard around to protect your teammates. Be support DPS and help focus down enemies.

3) What type of augments do you guys use in your PVP armor, main stat? defense? absorb? endurance? power? or a combo of all of them, should I have more augments of one type over the other?

I use all Aim augments. I have tank implants, main hand, and offhand. The rest is DPS gear.

4) What build do you guys use, is this 31/8/2, seems like a solid build for 50 PVP? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMsbZb.2

31/10/0. Take those 2 points out of Iron Fist in the Pyro tree and put them into Advanced Tools. The shorter cooldown on Grapple is well worth it.

Pay no attention to the naysayers, it's perfectly viable for 50 PvP. Yes, you have enough power to cause damage. 300k damage, 200k protection is not uncommon for me. Wearing a full set of Supercommando armor is pointless though, see #3 for the gear I use. PT tank damage is better than Jugg tanks, but still less than Assassin tanks.

No offense, but as AP I regularly switch to use ion cell when I see that would benefit the team. I have the exact same tools at protecting my allies as ST minus the accuracy debuff, and do roughly 10-20% more dps and significantly more burst and AOE even in ion cell compared to ST (at the cost of having more difficult to manage heat), meaning I can kill classes attacking my healer faster.

What advantages would you say ST brings over AP in that regard? For the way I see it it merely brings some additional personal survivability to the table, which is in most situations overshadowed by being able to do more damage.

...I have the exact same tools at protecting my allies as ST minus the accuracy debuff...

No, you don't. You're also lacking:

5% damage debuff (for 15 sec)

Ion Cylinder damage proc and movement debuff

16% armor

Damage mitigation via shields...doesn't affect much in PvP, but it does help

Most likely reduced HP compared to a full spec tank

Jet Charge

Any derp can toss around taunts, so that's a wash. The only benefit you're gaining by switching cylinders is being able to use Guard. You'd benefit your team more by not doing it at all and just sticking with DPS. Stance/cylinder dancing isn't very productive for any class.

Don't underestimate survivability. After a zerg by the opposing team, and the dust has settled, I'm always the last one standing. I can withstand focus fire from 3-4 attackers long enough for reinforcements to arrive. I often get "unbeatable" and even "immortal". With even a semi-competent healer at my back, you and your team might as well forget it. You're not going to kill me, ever.

No, you don't. You're also lacking:

 

5% damage debuff (for 15 sec)

Ion Cylinder damage proc and movement debuff

16% armor

Damage mitigation via shields...doesn't affect much in PvP, but it does help

Most likely reduced HP compared to a full spec tank

Jet Charge

I see you are trying to make a list of advantages as shield tech over this AP spec switcheroo, but I'm a bit confused in your direction and am worried maybe you are assuming a bit too much. He might have the 5% dmg debuff in his build. It could be possible he has the armor increase as well (not that I would advocate that). Additionally, you didn't recommend the OP make any changes to his build outside of Iron Fist > Advanced Tools. That would leave him without Neural Overload, which you just advocated as an advantage over the AP cylinder switcher.

The answer you wanted to give to the OP for #1 was No, but if you do X,Y, and Z you can ...

Pay no attention to the naysayers, it's perfectly viable for 50 PvP. Yes, you have enough power to cause damage. 300k damage, 200k protection is not uncommon for me. Wearing a full set of Supercommando armor is pointless though, see #3 for the gear I use. PT tank damage is better than Jugg tanks, but still less than Assassin tanks.

 

 

You want to be in the thick of things, where all the action is. You have a lot of AoE at your disposal, including an AoE taunt. Run w/ a guild healer and toss guard around to protect your teammates. Be support DPS and help focus down enemies.

 

 

I use all Aim augments. I have tank implants, main hand, and offhand. The rest is DPS gear.

 

 

31/10/0. Take those 2 points out of Iron Fist in the Pyro tree and put them into Advanced Tools. The shorter cooldown on Grapple is well worth it.

You do actually have a level 50 powertech/vanguard, right? I recall that you used to say that mercenaries were fine and that we all just needed to learn to play even though you never leveled your merc past 34 (or something close to that).

No, you don't. You're also lacking:

 

5% damage debuff (for 15 sec)

Can easily be picked up by AP and is not even stance dependent.

Ion Cylinder damage proc and movement debuff

The incredible damage of the Ion Cylinder procs I'd hardly call a tool to help defend allies. The snare effect somewhat, but AP has a guaranteed snare on one of their spammable attacks.

16% armor

Damage mitigation via shields...doesn't affect much in PvP, but it does help

This falls under personal survivability, these are not tools to help defend your allies better. I concede that living a little bit longer means you can protect your allies longer, but only if you are not the last one alive.

Most likely reduced HP compared to a full spec tank

I must have missed that talent in the ST tree that provides it with a significant HP difference to AP?

Jet Charge

I forgot about jet charge. Being able to quickly relocate to assist an ally is indeed a good tool.

Any derp can toss around taunts, so that's a wash. The only benefit you're gaining by switching cylinders is being able to use Guard.

It also adds survivability in the form of a flat damage reduction & an armour increase.

You'd benefit your team more by not doing it at all and just sticking with DPS. Stance/cylinder dancing isn't very productive for any class.

Who said anything about stance dancing? When I see its advantageous for me to guard a healer instead of providing extra dps, I'll use ion cell for a match. I love this flexibility in the tank classes. Making the best healer on your team twice as survivable can have an incredible effect on the outcome of a warzone, much more than providing 10-20% more dps. Not always of course, it depends on the situation.

Don't underestimate survivability. After a zerg by the opposing team, and the dust has settled, I'm always the last one standing. I can withstand focus fire from 3-4 attackers long enough for reinforcements to arrive. I often get "unbeatable" and even "immortal". With even a semi-competent healer at my back, you and your team might as well forget it. You're not going to kill me, ever.

To be fair, any tank class in its tank stance will usually die last, not because of incredible survivability but because the enemy team will focus on healers and then dps first. In addition, pretty much any class backed by a semi-competent healer is neigh-immortal.

While I'm in no way saying ST has less survivability than AP, the 30% damage reduction while stunned (usually when fighting alone vs 4 attackers they will inevitably chain-stun you) + a well timed Hydraulic Overrides means AP too can survive a fair amount of time vs 3-4 attackers to stall for reinforcements. Probably not as well as ST but I doubt the difference will be that big.

Posted this in the PvP forum, but I'll re-post it here: http://imgur.com/Ulzz5

That's nearly 500k damage as a 31/10/0, no stim. Usually I focus more on tossing Guard around for more protection, but since we had 3 healers on our team, I decided to see how much damage I could muster. I've hit 517k as 10/31/0 with Ion Cylinder, but forgot to take a screenie.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is that PT tanks are perfectly viable in PvP, even in full Shieldtech PvE tanking spec. The key is tweaking your PvP gear to maximize DPS while not giving up too much "tankiness". You can argue semantics and specs all you want. In the end, the damage can be comparable to AP, but with the added benefit of using Guard and more survivability.

Summarizing what's been said so far in this thread for the OP:

1) is a shield tech build viable for pvp (do you actually have enough power to kill someone if you are wearing full Super Commando PVP gear)

No, not with "full" supercommando gear. Your damage is output lacks the ability to put pressure on opponents without a noticeable gain in survivability. Instead, seek to have a mix of dps and tanking gear.

My personal thoughts:

All spec trees are viable, just not as good as others at doing their job. It wouldn't surprise me to see an Arsenal Merc/Gunnery Commando hit upwards of 800k damage in a game similar to the screenshot the poster above me had; and you're probably used to seeing how many complaints there are about that spec being viable. Similar to that spec doing damage versus another, I'd much rather have another tank AC perform the tank role in a warzone if needed. Due to the other two tank ACs having a bigger bag of tricks.

2) what role do you usually find yourself playing, guarding nodes, guarding healers, running interference while others cap nodes or all of the above

You can guard a node solo and will certainly do better at dealing with attacks while support comes than some specs. However, you'd be better off supporting (debuffing, stunning, attempting to peel for your healer, assisting dps, rotating guard) you teammates in the thick of the action.

My personal thoughts:

This spec is the most dependant team spec in the game. Solo shield tech isn't going to kill 2 people at the East node quickly and cap it. You need to play with somebody, preferably a healer, and stick around them. You can guard a node solo if needed, but I'd prefer someone with stealth and mez capability.

3) What type of augments do you guys use in your PVP armor, main stat? defense? absorb? endurance? power? or a combo of all of them, should I have more augments of one type over the other?

Aim.

4) What build do you guys use, is this 31/8/2, seems like a solid build for 50 PVP? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMsbZb.2

Pretty much any spec variation of at least 31 in Shield Tech will work. You can go the full pve cookie cutter tank spec and be fine.

My personal thoughts:

I always at least grab the Neural Overload and No Escape talents in the Shield Tech tree and the Advanced Tools talent in the Advanced Prototype tree. Any slow is better than no slow, and the root on stealth scan plus the pull (cooldown reduced by 10 seconds with Advanced Tools) just makes it that bit more annoying.

31 Bounty hunter tank in tank gear here. Leveled as shield tank questing/pvp all the way up to 50. My thoughts on the bh shield tech is as follows.

1. Your not going to kill anyone...your not dps. If you want to kill anyone even in recruit gear, play something else. Do damage from your attacks, because you are doing damage, but thats just not your role.

2. Find a healer, guard him and know your guard range, stay in it, fight in it. stick to him like glue.

3. if someone is on your healer, attack them, not the dude in the corner.

4. always be casting your taunts...think of casting your taunts off of cooldown even before an attack.

5. use your jet charge every time its off cooldown, you will get 2 free flamesweeps, and can add a third and not really that big of a heat, you are the node saver....no one caps while you are there.

6. You are very hard to kill, but you will eventually die in a 1 vs 1, so don't do that, if left alone you can guard a node long enough for help to arrive and probably survive. backed by a healer you are nigh unstoppable, as he only has to heal you some...giving team mates most of the heals.

7. Ive had same healer on my bh tank in tank gear, and my dps jugg in dps gear, and there is not even a contest of who will live the longest, bh wins handsdown...and if tank is alive, healer is alive and healing. if your dps and dead, you'll probably meet your healer at the spawn point.

8. I don't believe in stance dancing. I think if your not running the stance that your supposed to be running, your actually a hindrance to the team, because alot of spec abilites require you to be in that stance to work off of. Hate to make a WoW reference but learned along time ago....sure a shadow priest can heal, might even be beneficial at times to do so....but he shouldn't pop out of shadow form to do so, because its more beneficial for him to do his job and dps, which is what he was made for.

9. You have to search yourself and see what you really want. be a tank or be damage, but there is no way to be both. As a tank your not going to get many MvP votes, because no one really cares about the protection stat, so you'll be the unsung hero, because every votes heals first, followed by dps. I can't tell you the number of games where my bh tank got most medals, most protection, and not 1 vote, so if mvp is your thing as well, might want to go dps.

10. There are very few shield techs, so use that to your advantage, 95% of bh are either pyro, or advanced proto, so they are not going to espect you to have a jump, this is killer in huttbal, when you go into the lower levels with ball, jump to someone on the edge, carbonize the whole bunch, and score

11. Playing shield tech tank in pvp seems just more rewarding to me, knowing that by my actions, with my healer we probably aided a very great deal to the teams win, i don't get that feeling on my dps jugg, even though alot of timesi'm first place in medals and get lots of votes...the same feeling is not there.

12. Whatever route you go for tank ot dps, try to make up your mind before you start buying gear, so you don 't have to aquire 2 sets of pvp gear

Most of all just pick what you are going to have fun with, at the end of the day swtor is a game and is about having fun, and thats exactly what you should do.

I am a long-time ago Juggernaut player, with decent PvP experience. So I have no clue about Powertechs in PvP, but I can say that it is perfectly fine to play tank specc in PvP! I played my Juggernaut from level 1 to 50 in Immortal specc and achieved Valor Rank 60+ while doing so. I was at the top of the pvp chart most of time. I did change my gear at some point into the game from defensive orientated to offensive for pvp, because people found out that most defensive stats are useless or very poor in PvP.

You must not underestimate the strength of having a tank guarding a healer, this combo can outlast 2vs4+ if played right. And most of warzones I know are not about killing somebody fast, they are about teamplay! The utility a Juggernaut has to neglect the effectiness of other classes was great in the days, have to see how/if that changed.

And I guess that Powertech also has many utility for protecting or helping your own team. Ofc you won't do the big numbers and kill enemies as fast as other classes, but that is not your goal anyway.

This thread inspired me to stick with Shield Tech on my PT till max level, to test the capabilities in PvP and PvE.

PS:

You don't need tank PvE speccs if you are not doing Operation Hardmodes! Get those PvP talents in the tank tree, they are the bread and butter for your specc. And use offensive gear as tank specced (class).

stuff ...

agree