i know someone used to say flashpoints were too long and they had too much trash. And while i agree to some point that a flashpoint shouldn´t take as long as an operation, and should take about the same amount of time i just hate how ever piece of trash and every possible boss is beeing bypassed theese days.(talking pugs here)

The big plus about longer FP is that it extends content a bit. When FP are speeded that much up, people get tired of them that much faster. So if people get in 3 times as many FP every evening they get bored with them 3 times as fast. And they get gear 3 times as fast wich also would have kept them dooing FP.

If FP were too long compared to operations, the fix was not to make FP faster, rather make operations longer.

What do you expect after 6 months of playing the same ones? People are now experienced enough to probably do them in their sleep. Most people have now routes that skip 70% of the trash mobs

^This

I have been running the HM Flashpoints since before 1.2 to gear up for EV. At this point in time I get frustrated when people actually do not know these flashpoints as well as they should.

When they create more content and add more flashpoints those will take a little longer until we master those... and so on and so on.

i know, but imo there´s just too much that can be bypassed, i dont do FP for the loot, it´s the "story" of the FP and it is a bit destroyed when so much is bypassed. Some are worse than others ofc, taralV seems to be bad.

dont realy know if it can be fixed. I´m sure many people would be agry if lets say agro range was made twice as big in FP so bypassing would be alot harder. i´d kinda like it.

I get your point about skipping trash, but yeah, most people would be annoyed if current FPs changed. Making trash harder to bypass in future instances is a decent idea, though allowing you to bypass patrols of mobs seems interesting, to me, and more in line with what happens in Star Wars movies, such as when Obi-Wan sneaks around the Death Star.

Though I know it isn't pug-friendly, I'd also like to see flashpoints that are non-linear. Having a space station to explore rather than just run from point A to point B would be fun, now and then. Having boss hard modes on individual bosses that are triggered by not turning off certain defenses is a method that's been successful in other games. For instance, have a droid boss whose shielding can be turned off via slicing or adds that can effectively be disabled by locking doors or spacing them.

I get your point about skipping trash, but yeah, most people would be annoyed if current FPs changed. Making trash harder to bypass in future instances is a decent idea, though allowing you to bypass patrols of mobs seems interesting, to me, and more in line with what happens in Star Wars movies, such as when Obi-Wan sneaks around the Death Star.

 

Though I know it isn't pug-friendly, I'd also like to see flashpoints that are non-linear. Having a space station to explore rather than just run from point A to point B would be fun, now and then. Having boss hard modes on individual bosses that are triggered by not turning off certain defenses is a method that's been successful in other games. For instance, have a droid boss whose shielding can be turned off via slicing or adds that can effectively be disabled by locking doors or spacing them.

Non-linear group content has been done and sorry to say but the vast majority want it simpler. Yes, this is a WoW mentality but the populous has spoken. Even when WoW players screamed for non-linear content (because at the time everything was EXTREMELY linear) and Blizzard gave them what they wanted, only a small percentage ever took advantage of it and only for a short period.

As for the HM bosses you described, how long would it last before gear caught up and bypassed the difficulty and players said, "who cares we out gear it anyway." A month or two MAYBE.

i know someone used to say flashpoints were too long and they had too much trash. And while i agree to some point that a flashpoint shouldn´t take as long as an operation, and should take about the same amount of time i just hate how ever piece of trash and every possible boss is beeing bypassed theese days.(talking pugs here)

 

The big plus about longer FP is that it extends content a bit. When FP are speeded that much up, people get tired of them that much faster. So if people get in 3 times as many FP every evening they get bored with them 3 times as fast. And they get gear 3 times as fast wich also would have kept them dooing FP.

 

If FP were too long compared to operations, the fix was not to make FP faster, rather make operations longer.

some of us have lives out side of this game. kids, wife, job. I personally would like the 30 min FP. dont have time to sit hour and half doing a FP.

some of us have lives out side of this game. kids, wife, job. I personally would like the 30 min FP. dont have time to sit hour and half doing a FP.

^^ This

However, I will always do a full flashpoint for anyone who is new to it, do the bonuses, etc if anyone wants it. Basically I ask in the beginning.

But generally speaking, I'm doing a FP for the BH comms at this point, so I like a good speed run.

I'm not a fan of the "exhaustion zone" skip though -- I still like the actual mechanics of combat and playing is still fun.

Everyone is doing these once a day (not 3 lol) for the BH comms. I don't even look at the gear drops anymore. I just hit Greed on absolutely everything, and I get my crystals to later exchange for gear that I will immediately sell back for credits.

People skip trash because it is annoying and boring. We don't need more trash, or less trash. We need BETTER trash, with interesting mechanics. Lost Island has a little of this.

People also skip the first boss in Taral V because they are used to it. It was a broken boss for a long time: way too much hp, it took forever! I know it's been fixed, but I still would rather skip it. The tall robot + turret boss skip in D7 I'm fine with as well, since everyone that wants to fight it just cheeses the fight anyway and LOS's the turrets.

TL;DR: As long as top tier gear is available in fresh-50 content, you will get extremely overgeared people rushing through it.

OP, if you are finding HM FP are over to quick for you then go run HM LI for a few weeks, i'm sure it will provide you with the hours of entertainment you are after with little to no gain apart from an expensive repair bill.

So as you can see there is something for everybody.

i know someone used to say flashpoints were too long and they had too much trash. And while i agree to some point that a flashpoint shouldn´t take as long as an operation, and should take about the same amount of time i just hate how ever piece of trash and every possible boss is beeing bypassed theese days.(talking pugs here)

 

The big plus about longer FP is that it extends content a bit. When FP are speeded that much up, people get tired of them that much faster. So if people get in 3 times as many FP every evening they get bored with them 3 times as fast. And they get gear 3 times as fast wich also would have kept them dooing FP.

 

If FP were too long compared to operations, the fix was not to make FP faster, rather make operations longer.

We don't need the content extended. There needs to be more of it, and better content. Having to waste a lot of time on trash is like eating a plate of bread at a high-class restaurant. Not very satisfying and you are left wanting to get to the good stuff. Longer instances mean people will get bored and frustrated more easily and be more likely to bail on the group. Especially if an instance takes an hour or more and they walk out with nothing to show for it. Getting through the instances at a steady rate means a somewhat steady influx of new gear (to a point). That's how you keep people interested in grouping, not making trash harder to skip or the instance longer.

It's called 'trash' for a reason. Honestly there are better things to do in an MMO than sitting in an instance fighting all of the trash. I have dailies, crafting, and PvP to do as well. I can't say I blame people for skipping trash and opting for quick runs.

OP, if you are finding HM FP are over to quick for you then go run HM LI for a few weeks, i'm sure it will provide you with the hours of entertainment you are after with little to no gain apart from an expensive repair bill.

 

So as you can see there is something for everybody.

I felt fantastic when we finally beat it. My whole team shouted over mumble so loud it nearly blew out my speakers.

It was actually pretty thrilling.

about people leaving group if flashpoints are too long. just not true. not unless the group is realy bad. then maybe they would suck it up in a short FP and not in a longer.

longer FP makes people stay for the endboss since if you leave you would have to start all over.

And mostly it´s not so much about fast or slow, it´s about skipping "content". i use the term content VERY loosely.

People saying they dont want longer FP because then they wont have time do do their daylies.

must say i was surprised people still did those. Daylies are more boring that anything else ingame imo.

Daylies are as far as im concerned false content.

If you only have 30 min to play each day then it kinda suck, but for me it seems a bit extreeme that all content that´s worth dooing can be done in 30 min. (ye ye, i know there´s OP and lost island)

i´m not saying FP should take 90 min, but a 20min FP were you´ve skipped alot of the "content" is the other extreeme.

TL;DR at bottom.

Here is the issue with trash - too much cc.

In WoW I was able to pull 6-8 groups at once knowing that since I heavily out geared the heroic my healer and I could handle it. Eventually there were pockets of enemies you had I pull 1 group at a time but that was ok. Everything was very close together an within reason the pacing was good.

Developers in this game really love making every enemy 15-20 yards apart, half the time I can't even AoE more than 2-3 mobs! The issue isn't too much trash, it's too much distance. Don't even mention how I get thrown around constantly! Tanks need some kind of anti CC aura because as it stands I get thrown around the room constantly. I get pushe back, pulled in, stunned, slowed, Agro drops, Agro targets, there isn't an end! I can't speed tank with the current set up of mobs, it's miserable. Sometimes I can, and we breeze through, chaining pulls and never stopping. This is rare though as only certain flashpoints let you chain pull. Not to mention because of this vast amount of cc the healer is constantly cleansing what they can and burning resources -_- then you have to wait for them!

Imagine removing a lot of the space they give us, Taral V has an INSANE level of distance between each boss. So much that you ride a speeder to make it faster!

This is one thing WoW did well (I can only speak about TBC), ther were mostly short instances - I'd say 80% and about 20% long instances with lots of trash. This made the long ones feel more epic.

There aren't any throw away flashpoints really, every single one tries to be more epic than the last, eventually we just need some flashpoints that are very easy to grind and short. Something refreshing.

It would help this game out immensely if the developers put more time into variety, and less time into making large worlds. Generally speaking its better to have a wider variety, with less length than it is to have less variety with more length.

Tl;dr: wasted space between mobs. There is no fast way to kill mobs. Even if you removed 100% of the trash it would take forever to get through some of these flashpoints. Nobody likes filler.

OP, if you are finding HM FP are over to quick for you then go run HM LI for a few weeks, i'm sure it will provide you with the hours of entertainment you are after with little to no gain apart from an expensive repair bill.

 

So as you can see there is something for everybody.

I do LI every night and now it doesn't feel fun anymore.

You can skip all the trash before the 1st mini boss, and only 3 pulls to get to Droid boss, 5 pulls to 3rd boss (skip mini boss), and 7 pulls before last boss. All can be done in 30 - 45 mins.

Please be quiet. bw dont make fps longer pleeeeeease.

Firstly we have been doing these for MONTHS. if they were for example an hour and a half each it would cut considerably the amount of time people could gear up alts meaning "casual" (i hate that word but thats a different talk) players can only play effectively 1 character and level them SLOW as F and players that play for longer take a hell of a lot longer to gear up their alts.

Secondly.... Who in the word would want to spend an hour and a half to two hours every single day on an fp that would bore most people considering they have done them 20.. no 50... no 100.. no around 200 times!!!!! its ridiculous! and leaves less time for raiding the ops.

Thirdly what do you expect when we are INCREDIBLY overgeared for these ops now they are made for fresh 50s to gear up! we have geared way past the stage where we didnt even have colum gear so the only solution would be to make the fps harder which is unfair on fresh 50s or to put in new mobs and what is the point of that? can storm through the mobs now more isnt gonna make it fun its gonna bore us all to the point we fall asleep mid flashpoint and still arent dead when we wake lol.

conclusion .... leave them along they are farmed each day as they should be for the bh comms if you want longer go do an ops.

The issue is really that there is no tough 4 man content available. Give people more tough 4 man content and fewer people will speed run T1 HMs. The issue is that the harder content needs to have better drops and be on the same 'lockout' as the T1 BH comms otherwise geared people will still run those.

For example: adding another T2 FP and making those give 6 or 7 BH comms would probably be enough to get most geared people running those instead of the T1 HMs. Alternatively, drop T1 HM rewards to 3 BH comms and keep Tier 2 at 5.

TL;DR - Make more Tier 2 FPs and make the LFG rewards better than the T1 HMs but with the same lockout system.

That's what "Story Mode" is for -- learning the Story and the events. Hard mode is just for the boss fights and the gearing.

Pet hate -- people that level to 50 and queue for hard modes without ever bothering to do the Story mode versions or gear up at all, and expect to be told everything about the instance. I've no issues with filling in someone with the differences from Story mode, but that's not what they are asking for.

That's what "Story Mode" is for -- learning the Story and the events. Hard mode is just for the boss fights and the gearing.

 

Pet hate -- people that level to 50 and queue for hard modes without ever bothering to do the Story mode versions or gear up at all, and expect to be told everything about the instance. I've no issues with filling in someone with the differences from Story mode, but that's not what they are asking for.

Pet Hate #2 - Choosing a platforming shortcut to bypass 1(!) mob (that the group has melted in less than 10 seconds every other time we've run accross it). Takes me longer to respawn and get back to them after I miss the landing. Gonna solo it next time

Pet Hate #2 - Choosing a platforming shortcut to bypass 1(!) mob (that the group has melted in less than 10 seconds every other time we've run accross it). Takes me longer to respawn and get back to them after I miss the landing. Gonna solo it next time

False Emperor, right?

Let's jump across the platform to skip a single elite droid that can be soloed by a dps, or shredded by a group of 4 in seconds.

OOPS Joe missed the jump and has to run back ...