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Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

Codedrago's Avatar


Codedrago
07.26.2016 , 01:32 PM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by ethanredmace View Post
Lol. Anyways, Arcann only won against Nox simply because the plot demanded it and if the plot let Nox's true colors (true power) shine, he would have annihilated Arcann without Valkorian's help.
You thinking it could only happen because the plot demanded it, does not change the fact that it still happened. Or should we not count most of the feats the casses pull off because we could make a good arugment that those outcomes would be different if the plot didn't demand it?
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ethanredmace's Avatar


ethanredmace
07.26.2016 , 01:35 PM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by Sage_of_Battle View Post
And... because he simply isn't stronger. You're grossly overestimating Nox. Arcann was trained by Valk/Vitiate. He simply isn't stronger than Arcann. That may change by the end of this, but if he becomes stronger, so does the Wrath.

Bottom line is Wrath's achievements are on par with everything Nox ever did, if not greater. As an apprentice, the Wrath was already beating Lords and Jedi Masters single-handedly. They defeated a Sith Lord that used the force to become nearly unkillable, they defeated a Voss Mystic possessed by a dark side entity who was also supercharged by the Emperor ffs. Go to page 26 and you can see for yourself a more detailed list. If the Wrath is a "fly" then the Inquisitor is an ant, waiting to be stepped on.

Let's go over what it means to be the Wrath. The last Wrath, the Dark Council didn't dare mess with. Scourge left the Council in fear. And it's not just because "no one ****s with the Emperor" because at this point, the Dark Council is hardly even affiliated with the Emperor anymore. The Emperor is living in seclusion, plotting on his own. No, they fear the Wrath because they know that not just anyone becomes the Wrath. Not only that, but the Wrath had already fought and killed two Dark Council leveled Sith before Baras, so yes, he IS stronger than the Dark Council. Want to know what happens when Nox threatens them? Marr hardly even takes it seriously. The idea that they would "let" him punish them for any transgressions towards the Emperor is foolish. They would fight back, like any Sith would, and they would die.
If Nox is 'weaker than the Wrath and Arcann', then he can go bind 100 or even 12 more ghosts and become infinitely more powerful than them and even might be able to school Valk/Vitiate and even Vaylin if she unlocks her full powers. My opinion still stands, Nox can beat the Wrath from a distance with full power or even half-power or even quarter power, and only lost to Arcann because of what we call lack-of-experience and etc. If Nox was active in those 5 years and not frozen, then he would have utterly destroyed Arcann and become the most powerful force wielder in the galaxy with the exception of good old Valkorian.

Nox also lost to Arcann because they were lightsaber dueling and Nox is horrible at it, except at least better than Vaylin who just swings her lightsaber around like she doesn't give a censored about it or anything in general. And again, Arcann only won because the plot demanded it, and because Nox couldn't actually focus on their force powers because of the carbin sickness maybe? And etc. The Wrath and Nox battle might be close, but overall Nox would win, and etc. PS. you guys can also go check out my crossover uncompleted short story of Darth Nox vs the Emperor's Wrath vs (well read it and find out who) back on page 28.

ethanredmace's Avatar


ethanredmace
07.26.2016 , 01:42 PM | #283
Alright, here are Nox's feats before the expansions and etc, copy and pasted from the 'Sith Inquisitor most powerful being in Swtor?' version 2 thread.

The Inquisitor is the heir of Aloysius Kallig, the greatest rival of the mighty dark lord of the sith Tulak Hord.

Regarding this proud linage it was said:
"Easily the most ambitious, and therefore the most dangerous, of my rivals is Kallig. Therefore, he shall be the first to die."
―Tulak Hord

Out story begins when the Inquisitor, slave at the time due to the Kallig line wiped by Tulak Hord, joining to the Sith Academy on Korriban due to his force affinity.

During the training the Overseer Harkun continuously send the Inquisitor to suicidal missions in the most dangerous tombs of Korriban valley of the Dark Lords.
Each time the Inquisitor, mere acolyte at the time, finish easily - including among the others, opening a secret holocron which was locked for hundreds of years.

For the final test the Inquisitor was sent to the tomb of Naga Sadow to recover a starmap stored there by Tulak Hord.
During this task the Inquisitor, mere acolyte with horrible gear and almost no training at the time, subdue the mighty Dashade Khem Val, which was a Shadow Killer in the service of Tulak Hord and placed in stasis for safekeeping.
How the Inquisitor managed to subdue this being which its greatest aspect is Eating force users is amazing at that.

During chapter 1 the Inquisitor is filling the role of Apprentice to Darth Zash, and sent as almost as soon as he arrives on dromund kaas to kill Zash's master Darth Skotia (which is heavily enhanced with bionics).

Soon after that Zash is receiving her promotion and then sending the Inquisitor throughout the Galaxy to recover artifacts stashed by Tulak Hord in order to preform a force ritual.

On Balmorra the Inquisitor is injected with a serum which transform him to become immune to the toxin waste created in the bombing - similar to the native colicoids.
On Nar Shadda The Inquisitor is taking over a major cult of one Lord Paladius and gain his first supporters to his powerbase. During the battle between Lord Paladius and the Inquisitor - Paladius used a force technique which blocked the Inquisitor's connection to the force weakening him but still the Inquisitor managed to slay Paladius even in his weakened state.
On Tatooine the Inquisitor is joined by the Pirate Andronikos reval and together the scour the desert planet and recovering an artifact which caused everyone who took an hold of it to become mad and insane but that artifact did not affected the Inquisitor.
On Alderaan the Inquisitor broke into the houses of Alde and Rist, then he annhilated the guards of Lady Rist in order to lure the Jedi which held the key to the Artifact. After that the Inquisitor fought an entire hive of Killiks and then destroyed the jedi Nomar Organa before assaulting the Elysium in order to rocover the last artifact.

In between the Inquisitor recovered his ancestor ancient Mask ( Kallig's Countenance ) which was held on Korriban in the possession of a Sith Lord named Khreusis.

And also on Nar Shadda the Inquisitor fought an entire gang of criminals to recover his ancestor's lightsaber ( Kallig's lightsaber ).

During the Ritual Zash showed her true face (literally, yuck) and tried to posses the Inquisitor, but even though she had the entire power of the artifacts and countless years as Sith Lord the Inquisitor had the bound Dashade as his guardian and Khem Val interrupted the ritual which caused Zash to become trapped inside Khem's body instead and bound to the will of the Inquisitor.
At that moment the Inquistor was declared Lord Kallig, heir to Tulak Hord and he inherited Zash's power base and apprentices.

During Chapter 2 Lord Kallig was facing the meeting with his new master the powerful Darth Thanaton , which according to the lore was in the past was a slave himself known as Teneb Kel was sent to hunt and kill the apprentice of the Sith Emperor called Exal Kressh (descendant of Ludo Kressh - Which was the rival of the famous Naga Sadow).

At their first meeting Thanaton tried to send the Lord Kallig into his death by tasking him in recovering the writings of one dead sith lord Darth Andru, what the Inquisitor was not aware of is that Andru's ghost was tormented and haunted the tomb (hence killing many who trespassed).
During the assault of Andru on Kallig the spirit of Aloysius Kallig intervened and stopped Andru, Instructing the yound Inquisitor to seek out the tomb of Darth Ergast and telling him that he have a "pull on the dead" - being able to disturb force ghosts into forming before him.
Then the Inquisitor not only learned from Ergast himself the Ritual of Force Walking (effectively bounding a force ghost and taking all of its powers to yourself, rendering the Inquisitor immortal in the process) but he bound the spirit of Darth Ergast.
Then the Inquisitor bound the spirit of Darth Andru and recovering his writings about the Force-Walking technique.

Then the Inquisitor faces Darth Thanaton for the first time and when Thanaton "kills" the un-initiated Inquisitor it is learned that due to the bound ghosts as long they are bound to the Inquisitor he is practically Immortal and can't die.

The Inquisitor then leave dromund kaas and heads out to bind the most powerful ghosts he can find in order to get the ultimate power and annihilate thanaton.

On Taris he destroyed a cadre of Thanaton supporters, cadre of Sith Assassins, two Jedi masters and enslave as his apprentice the Jedi Ashara Zavros which led him to the place where her ancestor's ghost was, the Sith Lord Kalatosh Zavros, Zavros himself was first a Jedi Master during the Mandalorian wars and then he turned to the Dark side and served in Revan's Sith Empire - Hence granting the Inquisitor not only the Dark Side insight of the previous bound ghosts but an insight to the Light side of the force with the knowledge of a Jedi Master.

Then while capturing the ghosts the Inquisitor recieve a distrass call from Zash's former apprentices on Quash where he faces a cadre of Sith Assassins sent by Thanaton - the Inquisitor dispatched all of them with ease.

On Hoth the Inquisitor joined forces with LT. Talos Drellik of the Imperial Reclamation Service in order to locate the Ghost rumored to be there.
Then he braved the base of the Sadow'een, the personal order of assassins who served Naga Sadow.
Though they were long dead the base itself was in midst of pirate turf and protected by many traps and entire host of assassins droids.
Finally the Inquisitor located the coffin of Hurak-Mul, the right hand of Ludo Kressh.

Once all ghosts were bound the Inquisitor went to Dromund Kaas to challenge thanaton, there he annhilated his apprentice Rolan and on the moment of victory the ghosts overwhelmed Kallig reviling to him that he cannot bind more then one ghost at a time.

Chapter 3s start, the Inquistor breaks into Thanaton's library to learn about two potential ways to control the host of ghosts he bound.

First he travels to Belsavis, where he brave the prison and the Rakata defenses to release the Mother Machine, an ancient construct of the infinite empire used to create force using races. Then the Mother remakes the Inquisitor's body anew into new "race" or being which is not affected by the degradation of the Ghosts - hence he can bind unlimited number of ghosts without any effects on his body.

At Voss the Inquisitor first destroys an entire voss commando squad, then he takes the trials of the Dream-Walker cult only to slaughter them all when he was done. Once finished he travelled to the Voss healing shrine and in the Dream-Walker's sanctum there he faced a force ghost of a Voss Dream-Walker named MAr-Da, through his Bindings the Inquisitor got insight to the ways of the Voss and their abilities.
In order to heal his mind and gain control over the ghosts he bound the Inquisitor enlisted the aid of a Gormak Shaman and together they traveled to the nightmare lands (a place tainted with the dark side in such way the sith themselves did not venture there).
After the ritual was performed the Inquisitor remade his mind to control it and thus taking over the ghosts and allowing him not only to bind unlimited amount of ghosts but also to control them.

In between the Inquisitor gained the allegiance of Imperial Officers cadre under the command of Moff Pyron, which was gained by helping them building the Silencer super-weapon which allows to destroy entire fleets in one shot.

After those events the Inquisitor gained new apprentice from the Korriban academy, the Kaleesh warrior Xalek, upon the ending of Xalek's trials the Inquisitor gained his revenge and with flick of his wrist he executed overseer Harkun.

Once the Silencer was ready Thanato challenged Kallig to the ancient sith ritual known as the Kaggath, a duel of powerbase against powerbase. The arena was declared as corellia and the Inquisitor accepted.
After the Inquisitor annhilated Thanaton's forces at every turn in middle of planet wide war he fought thanaton in single combat in front of Sith and military leaders.
Thanatons then ran away and went to ask the help of the Dark Council (which Thanaton was part of) on Korriban.

The story ends when the Inquisitor arrives at the Council chambers cornering Thanton to the wall and wiping the floor with him, The inquisitor "played" and humilated Thanaton in such way that the Dark Council mercy killed him.

Upon victory the Inquisitor was declared Darth Nox, and was charged with the Sphere of ancient knowledge (hence gaining access the the secrets of the Sith Order as their warden).

"By order of the Dark Council and in light of your reputation as a master of the dark side, you are now Darth Nox."
―Darth Marr

This beats anything the Wrath and other classes except for the Counselor have done. The Wrath ever since the beginning was treated like royalty and destined to succeed, etc, etc, and etc. But Darth Nox was treated poorly like filth from the beginning, a failure waiting to happen, an underdog, etc, etc. He might not be the most powerful being in SWTOR, but he's the second most powerful force user in SWTOR in terms of potential/raw power and tons of other factors with the exception of lightsaber dueling which I stated in another post above and I think maybe some back on page 28. Darth Nox as a character, personality, etc, etc, and other things make a lot of Hollywood Undead songs fit him along with some Three Days Grace songs, a few Skillet songs, and etc. Sorry for going off topic there and I also edited that in and forgot to add PS. and press enter.

Sage_of_Battle's Avatar


Sage_of_Battle
07.26.2016 , 02:01 PM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by ethanredmace View Post
edited for the sake of length
Ffs, tl;dr

Barely even got through half of that without encountering an increasing amount of fluff and gloss, much of which is matched by everything the Wrath has done. You missed the point of that thread, which was to romanticize Nox and fluff up his achievements. It's a respect thread, not a logical thread. People pointed it out as much. And your other comment just... really didn't make much sense at all. I think you're confusing a lot of your head-canon and fanon for actual lore, in which case, arguing with actual lore won't do much to sway you. You have your opinion, everyone else has theirs. You saying things like "the plot demanded it" and other excuses really doesn't mean much. Especially due to the fact that Nox is the physical embodiment of "the plot demanded it." I mean come on, he arrives on Korriban, knowing how to use lightning already? What a joke.

Nox is weaker than Arcann, so is the Wrath. If Nox could go "bind" a bunch more ghosts to become stronger, they would, but they don't, which by assumption means they can't. Stop god moding your favorite character. They're not the strongest force user, probably not even the second strongest. Besides, an unbeatable character is boring.

ethanredmace's Avatar


ethanredmace
07.26.2016 , 02:10 PM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by Sage_of_Battle View Post
Ffs, tl;dr

Barely even got through half of that without encountering an increasing amount of fluff and gloss, much of which is matched by everything the Wrath has done and your other comment just... really didn't make much sense at all. I think you're confusing a lot of your head-canon and fanon for actual lore, in which case, arguing with actual lore won't do much to sway you. You have your opinion, everyone else has theirs. You saying things like "the plot demanded it" and other excuses really doesn't mean much. Nox is weaker than Arcann, so is the Wrath. If Nox could go "bind" a bunch more ghosts to become stronger, they would, but they don't, which by assumption means they can't. Stop god moding your favorite character. They're not the strongest force user, probably not even the second strongest. Besides, an unbeatable character is boring.
Alright, you're right. I keep confusing fanon and my head-cannon with actual lore. Again, you're right, my character might be at least in the top ten strongest force users in this game or even in the top 15. But, my opinion still stands, Darth Nox will still crush the Wrath in a fight. Also, have you read my unfinished short story on page 28? I'm too lazy to edit that even more to where it matches up with actual lore and is not a crossover, but I want it to be that though. You're also right, just because a character is my favorite doesn't mean I should god mod them and make them almost unbeatable.

PS. I have to go and do some things. I'll be back here later.

Sage_of_Battle's Avatar


Sage_of_Battle
07.26.2016 , 02:14 PM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by ethanredmace View Post
Alright, you're right. I keep confusing fanon and my head-cannon with actual lore. Again, you're right, my character might be at least in the top ten strongest force users in this game or even in the top 15. But, my opinion still stands, Darth Nox will still crush the Wrath in a fight. Also, have you read my unfinished short story on page 28? I'm too lazy to edit that even more to where it matches up with actual lore and is not a crossover, but I want it to be that though. You're also right, just because a character is my favorite doesn't mean I should god mod them and make them almost unbeatable.

PS. I have to go and do some things. I'll be back here later.
Indeed, and you are allowed to have your opinion. I mean, we'll most likely never know who would win as they'll likely never have a cross over. My opinion is that they're equal and would probably both die in the conflict.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
07.26.2016 , 02:46 PM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by ethanredmace View Post
If Nox is 'weaker than the Wrath and Arcann', then he can go bind 100 or even 12 more ghosts and become infinitely more powerful than them and even might be able to school Valk/Vitiate and even Vaylin if she unlocks her full powers. My opinion still stands, Nox can beat the Wrath from a distance with full power or even half-power or even quarter power, and only lost to Arcann because of what we call lack-of-experience and etc. If Nox was active in those 5 years and not frozen, then he would have utterly destroyed Arcann and become the most powerful force wielder in the galaxy with the exception of good old Valkorian.

Nox also lost to Arcann because they were lightsaber dueling and Nox is horrible at it, except at least better than Vaylin who just swings her lightsaber around like she doesn't give a ...k about it or anything in general. And again, Arcann only won because the plot demanded it, and because Nox couldn't actually focus on their force powers because of the carbin sickness maybe? And etc. The Wrath and Nox battle might be close, but overall Nox would win, and etc. PS. you guys can also go check out my crossover uncompleted short story of Darth Nox vs the Emperor's Wrath vs (well read it and find out who) back on page 28.
The bold might be possible but it may not be true either. If you bind the optional ghost during the voss healing ritual, Noss struggles containing him. I think Nox is at his/her limit on how many ghosts he can absorb. Before you claim "Well, Nox didn't finish the healing ritual!" The healing ritual was necessary in order to prevent Nox from going insane by listening to their voices/attacking their mind. Nox struggles absorbing the ghost right from the beginning. It's nothing the ghost does to Nox.

We don't know how many ghosts Nox can absorb. Assuming that he can absorb as many as he/she wants would be taking the no limits fallacy road. Now before anyone uses this to knock Nox.. stop right there. I don't think Nox is entirely reliant on eating ghosts in order to get stronger. The ghosts were simply a clever short cut that show cases the character's knowledge in the dark side of the force. I don't think Nox is in need of any additional short cuts (which is why even an Imperius who releases the ghosts still maintains a position on the dark council.)

ethanredmace's Avatar


ethanredmace
07.26.2016 , 03:26 PM | #288
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
The bold might be possible but it may not be true either. If you bind the optional ghost during the voss healing ritual, Noss struggles containing him. I think Nox is at his/her limit on how many ghosts he can absorb. Before you claim "Well, Nox didn't finish the healing ritual!" The healing ritual was necessary in order to prevent Nox from going insane by listening to their voices/attacking their mind. Nox struggles absorbing the ghost right from the beginning. It's nothing the ghost does to Nox.

We don't know how many ghosts Nox can absorb. Assuming that he can absorb as many as he/she wants would be taking the no limits fallacy road. Now before anyone uses this to knock Nox.. stop right there. I don't think Nox is entirely reliant on eating ghosts in order to get stronger. The ghosts were simply a clever short cut that show cases the character's knowledge in the dark side of the force. I don't think Nox is in need of any additional short cuts (which is why even an Imperius who releases the ghosts still maintains a position on the dark council.)
Well, if I remember correctly, didn't Nox dreamwalk on Voss, therefor gaining control of all the ghosts that he currently has like a puppetmaster pulling the strings or was that for all the ghosts that he absorbs in his career?

Also, what is your reaction to my SWTOR and CP crossover uncompleted (vs) short story (so far) back on page 28? Its been edited a little bit, so you sort of have to read it again. Sorry about that, lol.

PS. I absorbed the Voss ghost on Voss on my Darth Nox.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
07.26.2016 , 03:39 PM | #289
Quote: Originally Posted by ethanredmace View Post
Well, if I remember correctly, didn't Nox dreamwalk on Voss, therefor gaining control of all the ghosts that he currently has like a puppetmaster pulling the strings or was that for all the ghosts that he absorbs in his career?

Also, what is your reaction to my SWTOR and CP crossover uncompleted (vs) short story (so far) back on page 28? Its been edited a little bit, so you sort of have to read it again. Sorry about that, lol.

PS. I absorbed the Voss ghost on Voss on my Darth Nox.
Yes. It allowed you to gain control of them and have power over them. The problem is when you absorb that Voss ghost it's nothing he actually does back. Nox seems to have trouble "getting him down." Grabbing his/her head and struggling for a bit after absorbing him. We know the ghosts aren't able to retaliate right away or anything like that. So Nox might be nearing the limit of how many can be taken in. It's a theory but it's not something we know for sure one way or the other.

As for your short story? I already see a problem with it. Nox can't ragdoll the Wrath. I don't deal with fanon but only canon. I'm not a wrath fanboy and I've defended the consular and the night as well. My main is a sorcerer. The problem is due to how flashy the sorcerer's scene is a lot of people seem to overblow Nox and his/her accomplishments. The protags all have similar crazy feats for a reason.

ethanredmace's Avatar


ethanredmace
07.26.2016 , 03:51 PM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
Yes. It allowed you to gain control of them and have power over them. The problem is when you absorb that Voss ghost it's nothing he actually does back. Nox seems to have trouble "getting him down." Grabbing his/her head and struggling for a bit after absorbing him. We know the ghosts aren't able to retaliate right away or anything like that. So Nox might be nearing the limit of how many can be taken in. It's a theory but it's not something we know for sure one way or the other.

As for your short story? I already see a problem with it. Nox can't ragdoll the Wrath. I don't deal with fanon but only canon. I'm not a wrath fanboy and I've defended the consular and the night as well. My main is a sorcerer. The problem is due to how flashy the sorcerer's scene is a lot of people seem to overblow Nox and his/her accomplishments. The protags all have similar crazy feats for a reason.
I thought Nox was grabbing his head because of a brain freeze, lol. They can happen almost every single time that you eat ice cream too fast or something like that.

Now anyways, you need to read ALL of my short story, not trying to seem bossy (if you think so, I'm incredibly sorry, I'm not trying to be or anything like that) or anything to see the plot twist and other things in my short story (again so far), The Emperor's Wrath, survives, and becomes more powerful than ever and force pushes Nox up against a wall, and you can read the rest of it (so far) to see what happens next. Also, I want to know your in depth reaction, but if you don't want to do that, that's fine, you can just give a short reaction/answer or not even answer at all. You're free to chose. I'm not your boss or anything like that, even if I was, I wouldn't force you.

PS. You're right about the fact that all of the force wielding and even non-force using protagonists all have some pretty awesome feats, but they don't rival Nox's. Only the Jedi Counselor and The Sith Warrior's feats even come remotely close. Also off topic, I'm obviously a Nox fanboy judging by the facts and I gladly admit that I'm one of them and I'm also super proud to be one. Also, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bashing the other classes, but they are all powerful and great in their own ways, and etc. I don't mean any offense to any of the other classes at all, again sorry if it seems that way. Thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully reply to this.