For what its worth knuckleheads, I already suffered through 5.0 - 5.9 and the debacle of RNG crates and severe grind. I quit for a year after 5.0 came out because of how terrible it was. I came back after you made some adjustments but it is still a bad system.

The new augments are terrible enough. Releasing difficult to obtain gear levels that require difficult to gain materials IS NOT CONTENT. I'm not going to try and spend 30 hours a week times how many alts to get them to have best gear to compete in PVP.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to get through you guy's thick skulls that these things turn customers away from the game. Did the fact you had to merge servers not register? Does the FACT that the MERGED servers now have less population than Harbinger did by itself a little over year ago not give you a hint about player dissatisfaction?

If you actually want helpful advise that would get me to stay (as well as several other people I've talked to) as primarily a PVP player is to put in a BOLSTER CAP. The idea is that people entering war zones would have their attributes capped at a certain number, making these ridiculous gear tiers irrelevant.

High level gear should ONLY be for people pushing the most difficult Operations. That's the way it used to be. PVP players had 208 gear with expertise whereas PVE players would try and get 216 or even 220 gear, for example in the 4.0 era.

PVP players want to just compete knowing they are on an even playing field with their opponent. A bolster cap at a reasonable level would make A LOT of people happy knowing that they can jump right in and play without being at a disadvantage. This also makes it more friendly for people that enjoy playing alts. I would happily keep my sub to continue to PVP.

So what do you want to do EA? Make this game fun to log in and play or try and reintroduce gear grind version 2? I warned you in closed 5.0 Beta in 2016 and you ignored me. The mass exodus over Q1 2017 proved me correct.

For my girlfriend and I, the choice is clear. If your tier 5 goes forward as proposed...then our subs will be canceled.

EDIT: For people to say, "its too early to know how it is going to work"...that's what people said prior to 5.0...and guess what...they were wrong. They made ZERO changes from Closed Beta to 5.0 release. This new crafted gear will work EXACTLY like the 240 augments. I'm trying to create awareness NOW in the slim hope that they actually realize their error and correct it.

Threads that start by insulting the people who can make anything happen always go well...

BTW, I agree with the actual topic. Take gear out of the equation for PvP.

For my girlfriend and I, the choice is clear. If your tier 5 goes forward as proposed...then our subs will be canceled.

I'm sorry to hear that. It's terrible when someone leaves the game, for whatever reason, and BW should take your grievance seriously.

So, um...what server are you on? If you're planning on giving away your credits, I hope you'll consider giving some to your allies <--- who, you can be assured, will continue to raise this important issue in the forum after you're gone. Like a pledge.

I don't think having a gear chase, even in pvp, is necessarily a bad thing. That being said, I guess this isn't a terrible idea.

Of course, strict/exclusive pvp'ers won't be doing the Master Mode operations which drop the materials and schematics necessary for tier 5 gear. This makes the likelihood that the people you will be encountering in pvp will have tier 5 gear very, very low.

If the tier 5 end-products of crafting and the materials are tradeable and can be listed on the GTN (which is still a big unknown at this point), I expect these to be scarce in quantity and ridiculously expensive, since the number of people still playing that have MM ops on "farm" is minimal. I mean, first you're going to have to loot the schematic and any new materials to craft this tier 5 gear, and you're going to have to make it for yourself, and then your ops team, and then your alts, and then their alts, etc. etc. Only then will you start to see the end-products of crafting and the materials for sale.

If a person has the skills to complete MM ops content, I wouldn't call them noobs or pushovers. And, I find it unlikely that a strict MM ops player, who also happens to be pretty pvp-naive, will intentionally go into ranked pvp in their tier 5 gear expecting to dominate over dedicated Gold tier ranked players in "merely" Tier 4 gear. But, if a player has the skills to be a master mode raider AND a top 96 ranked pvp player, then they deserve every piece of tier 5 gear they acquire, and every tenth of a percentage point of RNG improvement they get from it. And, they had a good chance of beating you anyway, without the gear advantage.

Finally, we have no idea what 6.0 will bring. We don't know if galactic command will be reset and we'll grind it again at the new level cap, or if level caps will go away and there will just be a tier 6, or something we haven't even thought of. Maybe there won't even be a new gear tier with 6.0. All the effort to grind tier 5 gear might be irrelevant in a few months.

In summary, I don't think this is going to be a huge problem for exclusive pvp'ers, but a cap on gear item rating in warzones isn't a completely terrible idea. I hope Tier 5 gear works more like the way 204 gear from hard mode colossal monolith at the end of the 3.0 era worked, so only mods and enhancements and perhaps hilts/barrels, and not involve the set bonus armorings. It would be nice if there was a pathway for the solo-player and exclusive-pvp'er to get this stuff, like through tier 4 galactic command crates or unassembled components, but perhaps we will just have to wait to see how everything gets up-ended when 6.0 comes out.

Bolster should be made the same level as the tier 5 gear they announced. It is not acceptable for some people to have much higher gear in pvp than other people or to have easier access to it.

I will not play pvp under those conditions and it’s why I’ve not been playing it for most of 5.0-5.9.2 because the gear grind is too long to close the gap.

I’ve now played the end game story about 12-13 times and just finished it on the last class type. I will not be doing it again and I don’t play ops. I’ve been doing dailies, some end game flash points and I’ve fully dressed my characters in many outfits.

My RP friends have left the game since the server moved from the west coast and I’m not interested in joining another group.

This game’s content is now stale to me and I’m close to unsubscribing to find another. If I was able to gear up faster in pvp or it had higher bolster, I would spend most of my time in pvp and I could wait out new pve content.

This announcement that gear will be crafted from operations means pvp won’t be an option in the future. All this new pvp content has been wasted on me because Bioware don’t understand players like me wont play if there is a long grind to get gear or it is locked behind content or having to pay millions of credits to buy. I’m no expert at pvp, but I dislike losing to people who aren’t as good as me because they have better gear. I want to play to have fun at the end of my day. I don’t want another job.

The best solution for pvp is to make Bolster the same level as the maximum gear and then everyone can have fun playing pvp.

They want you to have to grind for gear because they don't have anything else for you to do. They think it will keep people subbed longer. This is the only reason I fear they will not listen to the wisdom that is putting the bolster over the highest tier of gear and negating gear in PvP making it only skill vs. skill. They want you to grind and chase the gear. It's what they can offer you in the name of "keep playing the game" until after Anthem is out and they know whether or not their studio and this game will even continue to exist.

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Bolster should be made the same level as the tier 5 gear they announced. It is not acceptable for some people to have much higher gear in pvp than other people or to have easier access to it.

I will not play pvp under those conditions and it’s why I’ve not been playing it for most of 5.0-5.9.2 because the gear grind is too long to close the gap.

I’ve now played the end game story about 12-13 times and just finished it on the last class type. I will not be doing it again and I don’t play ops. I’ve been doing dailies, some end game flash points and I’ve fully dressed my characters in many outfits.

My RP friends have left the game since the server moved from the west coast and I’m not interested in joining another group.

This game’s content is now stale to me and I’m close to unsubscribing to find another. If I was able to gear up faster in pvp or it had higher bolster, I would spend most of my time in pvp and I could wait out new pve content.

This announcement that gear will be crafted from operations means pvp won’t be an option in the future. All this new pvp content has been wasted on me because Bioware don’t understand players like me wont play if there is a long grind to get gear or it is locked behind content or having to pay millions of credits to buy. I’m no expert at pvp, but I dislike losing to people who aren’t as good as me because they have better gear. I want to play to have fun at the end of my day. I don’t want another job.

The best solution for pvp is to make Bolster the same level as the maximum gear and then everyone can have fun playing pvp.

This post is basically me besides the ops part. I like them but Iokath is so uninspired and a dumb op off the bat since it has anything to do with the Zakuul dragon/gods/droids crap they've been shoveling since 2015. I'll get to it eventually but I fear it'll probably be on the back burner until something new AND of interest actually comes around. A new gear grind based around crafting ONLY and likely requiring players to have toons capped at 300 already? Ha, fat chance of that doing anything but hurting player retention more.

They want you to have to grind for gear because they don't have anything else for you to do. They think it will keep people subbed longer. This is the only reason I fear they will not listen to the wisdom that is putting the bolster over the highest tier of gear and negating gear in PvP making it only skill vs. skill. They want you to grind and chase the gear. It's what they can offer you in the name of "keep playing the game" until after Anthem is out and they know whether or not their studio and this game will even continue to exist.

 

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Then they don’t understand the pvp players psyche. Pvpers are more likely to play more and for longer if it is skill vs skill. You only need to look at how successful games like Overwatch are to understand that people don’t need gear grind or even gear to play Pvp.

Bioware have never understood pvpers in this game and I fear they never will. The gearing system introduced in 5.0 was probably the most destructive thing they’ve ever done to pvp in this game. It caused whole guilds to just pack up and leave. Many people left over that change.

If they make another damaging mistake like that, they will cause more people to leave. They really need to consider player enjoyment more instead of player retention by any means. If people are enjoying your game, they will stay. If people aren’t enjoying your game because you are playing psychological games to get them to play longer, they will leave.

It’s a fairly basic concept that Bioware don’t seem to get. Make the game fun and not tedious. Then more people will play for longer and not get burnt out and leave.

The most important part of that is the word “fun”. People might accept systems or learn to live with them, but that doesn’t make them fun.

By definition, fun is :

noun

1.

enjoyment, amusement, or light-hearted pleasure.

"the children were having fun in the play area"

synonyms: pleasure, entertainment, enjoyment, amusement, excitement,

adjectiveinformal

1.

amusing, entertaining, or enjoyable.

"it was a fun evening"

synonyms: enjoyable, amusing, pleasurable, pleasing, agreeable, interesting

Now let’s look at some of those words

Enjoyable :

adjective

adjective: enjoyable

(of an activity or occasion) giving delight or pleasure.

"they had an enjoyable afternoon"

synonyms: entertaining, amusing, delightful, nice, to one's liking, pleasant, congenial, lovely, fine, good, great, agreeable, pleasurable, replayable, delicious, delectable,

Excitement:

Noun

noun: excitement

a feeling of great enthusiasm and eagerness.

"her cheeks were flushed with excitement"

synonyms: exhilaration, elation, animation, enthusiasm, eagerness, anticipation,

I could post each term, but I won’t, I’ll just underline some words for people to think about and then they can try and relate it to how they feel playing certain parts of the game or some of the game’s systems that Bioware have put in place to try and make us play longer, like gear grind.

Now I’ll post the same definition of tedious and underline some words with relation to the same things like gear grind or content grind like conquest.

Tedious:

adjective

too long, slow, or dull; tiresome or monotonous.

"a tedious journey"

synonyms: boring, monotonous, dull, deadly dull, uninteresting, unexciting, unvaried, unvarying, lacking variety, mindless, soul-destroying, soulless, mundane, wearisome, wearying, tiresome,

One word jumps out at me, unexciting. Which is the opposite of exciting, which is a noun for fun. Just about everyone of those words in the tedious definition has an opposing word under the fun and excitement definitions

Bioware need to make the game fun and people will play. Making the game tedious isn’t fun.

I don’t find repeative grinding fun and I don’t find getting smashed by players who have better gear to be fun.

Quoting myself :

The worst are those people for whom "fun" is = ruining games for others. The "Victory" screen means nothing to them, I think.

 

Plus, there are also people for whom "fun" is = dominating other people.

 

So, yes, "fun" is a very individual concept.

Then they don’t understand the pvp players psyche. Pvpers are more likely to play more and for longer if it is skill vs skill. You only need to look at how successful games like Overwatch are to understand that people don’t need gear grind or even gear to play Pvp.

I have my own, personal opinion on that.

Yes, PvP people don't need gear for PvP. That's true.

But I still do not believe that - as you write it - "if it is skill vs skill" . I have seen too many people wanting to dominate and win against lesser skilled people. I have seen too many gankers. I have seen too many PvP people even willing to do duels against people whom they believe are inferior - play the inferior class or have inferior gear.

In my opinion, people who like to do PvP "if it is skill vs skill" are the minority. Yes, I've become grumpy and bitter about that, but what i lived to see formed my opinions.

Plus, Bioware doesn't have any incentives to let weak players play against weak players so that they can improve.

So, um...what server are you on? If you're planning on giving away your credits, I hope you'll consider giving some to your allies <--- who, you can be assured, will continue to raise this important issue in the forum after you're gone. Like a pledge.

 

My god. That was the greatest and most polite "can I haz your stuff?" request I've ever read.

My god. That was the greatest and most polite "can I haz your stuff?" request I've ever read.

Thanks. I'm from Canada.

I'll be brief since I tire of this argument, which hasn't changed since I started playing MMORPGs in 2004 and I'm on a long flightpath...

Give players two queue choices / options: 1) Same bolster cap; or 2) Progression based either through gear, talents or both.

This will make everyone happier (if not happiest) in an aggregate fashion. If purists who want bolster cap have much, much longer queues -- that's on them. If I am wrong that their queues won't be much longer, then it is easy to prove I'm wrong so they should embrace my suggestion.

Dasty

I have my own, personal opinion on that.

 

Yes, PvP people don't need gear for PvP. That's true.

But I still do not believe that - as you write it - "if it is skill vs skill" . I have seen too many people wanting to dominate and win against lesser skilled people. I have seen too many gankers. I have seen too many PvP people even willing to do duels against people whom they believe are inferior - play the inferior class or have inferior gear.

 

In my opinion, people who like to do PvP "if it is skill vs skill" are the minority. Yes, I've become grumpy and bitter about that, but what i lived to see formed my opinions.

 

Plus, Bioware doesn't have any incentives to let weak players play against weak players so that they can improve.

I disagree skill vs skill pvpers are the minority. Have you ever played Overwatch? It is one the the biggest and most popular pvp games on the market and even has its own Esports teams.

They do not have to equip any gear and there is no gear advantages. I know of at least 50 people across 3 guilds who permanently left swtor to go play it. I also know of two whole guilds who did the same.

I’m sure there were plenty more or we would still have more pvpers in the game.

Some players do want to have better gear to stomp lesser players or to make sure better ones can’t stomp them. I don’t deny that. There may even be more of them since the game has deteriorated.

I do not think they are the majority of players. I think more pvpers would prefer to have no gear gods over those that do want gear gods.

Regarding what typical PVPers want is easy to see, all you got to do is look back in the past. When the gear rating was capped at 174, it took months just to reach min/max gears on a toon. People hated it. People complained about it.

BW changed the gearing system by allowing players to save WZ comms in all tiers of PVP and even added vendors that sold all forms of mods and PVP gears. Gearing alts became easy, and PVPers raved about the gearing system.

Then 5.0 came out. Gearing became a slogfest grind again. Gearing alts became a massive chore, and players again became disenchanted with the gearing system change which in turn caused many hardcore PVPers to leave the game, myself included.

All of this proves PVPers do not enjoy geargrinds. PVPers do not need a carrot in the form of gear to PVP. The majority of PVPers enjoy playing alts, gearing alts, having options to modify gears easily so they can focus on the part of the game they like best which is fighting other players.

Honestly if they want to add rewards that encourage PVP, all they got to do is add toys, cosmetics, items and stuff that has no impact on actual performance just fluff stuff that can be shown off to other PVPers. A rare weapon or chest piece gained through some sort of PVP accomplishment would be far more fun and rewarding than any gear grind.

I don't understand why they don't add titles that can only be gained via certain PVP accomplishments... For instance if you get to 1 million kills, a special title. They only added Manhunter and majority of PVPers got that years ago! They could add titles for reaching 5mil heals in 100 matches, 500 matches, etc. There's so many ways they could reward players for ingame PVP accomplishments that would make them strive to do well in PVP.

They could add special gears for reaching these extremely hard to reach accomplishments too! That would be neat to have a chest piece that only could be gained via reaching a really impressive PVP goal, like 5mil total damage or heals, protection, etc. in 100, 200 warzones. All the data they collect on each toon ought to be used for stuff like this imo, and it would give players PVP goals to strive for.

Regarding what typical PVPers want is easy to see, all you got to do is look back in the past. When the gear rating was capped at 174, it took months just to reach min/max gears on a toon. People hated it. People complained about it.

 

BW changed the gearing system by allowing players to save WZ comms in all tiers of PVP and even added vendors that sold all forms of mods and PVP gears. Gearing alts became easy, and PVPers raved about the gearing system.

 

Then 5.0 came out. Gearing became a slogfest grind again. Gearing alts became a massive chore, and players again became disenchanted with the gearing system change which in turn caused many hardcore PVPers to leave the game, myself included.

 

All of this proves PVPers do not enjoy geargrinds. PVPers do not need a carrot in the form of gear to PVP. The majority of PVPers enjoy playing alts, gearing alts, having options to modify gears easily so they can focus on the part of the game they like best which is fighting other players.

 

Honestly if they want to add rewards that encourage PVP, all they got to do is add toys, cosmetics, items and stuff that has no impact on actual performance just fluff stuff that can be shown off to other PVPers. A rare weapon or chest piece gained through some sort of PVP accomplishment would be far more fun and rewarding than any gear grind.

 

I don't understand why they don't add titles that can only be gained via certain PVP accomplishments... For instance if you get to 1 million kills, a special title. They only added Manhunter and majority of PVPers got that years ago! They could add titles for reaching 5mil heals in 100 matches, 500 matches, etc. There's so many ways they could reward players for ingame PVP accomplishments that would make them strive to do well in PVP.

 

They could add special gears for reaching these extremely hard to reach accomplishments too! That would be neat to have a chest piece that only could be gained via reaching a really impressive PVP goal, like 5mil total damage or heals, protection, etc. in 100, 200 warzones. All the data they collect on each toon ought to be used for stuff like this imo, and it would give players PVP goals to strive for.

I couldn’t agree more. That is how I feel too.

Bioware also had the old gearing system finally sorted out to everyone’s wishes about 6 months before 5.0. Which finally included the ability to swap Comms between Alts. Something which had been asked for years.

I don’t know one pvper that was unhappy with that old system.

There was still a small amount of difference in gear, but it was tiny compared to now and you could gear up fast to maximum gear rating in under 2 weeks. You could do it in less time if you pvped as you leveled up. Even the most casual players could do it in 4 weeks.

As a comparison, I believe it’s been pointed out in other threads that over the course of the 5.0-5.9 period, it takes a brand new and dedicated player about 90-120 days to gear for Pvp.

The gear discrepancy has also been calculated to be much higher between the 228-230 gear using bolster and 248 gear with Augments.

Pvp would be better served with incentives like you’ve suggested instead of gear grind. Those people who need a reason or incentive to play pvp would still get something of value and those people who would pvp anyway, would get some trinkets to show off for their time.

If Bioware didn’t reskin all the old gear, they could have used a lot of the old armor shells as rewards or some of the older items that are no longer available.

Just so we are clear. Totem and Lhance,

You would then agree to my proposal to separate queues? You seem awfully sure about what the result would be. If you are, in fact, right then -- no harm no foul?

Dasty

P.S. Give me points for staking out a position. To the best of my knowledge, everyone disagrees with me on separating queues, including, well, everyone.

Regarding what typical PVPers want is easy to see, all you got to do is look back in the past. When the gear rating was capped at 174, it took months just to reach min/max gears on a toon. People hated it. People complained about it.

 

BW changed the gearing system by allowing players to save WZ comms in all tiers of PVP and even added vendors that sold all forms of mods and PVP gears. Gearing alts became easy, and PVPers raved about the gearing system.

 

Then 5.0 came out. Gearing became a slogfest grind again. Gearing alts became a massive chore, and players again became disenchanted with the gearing system change which in turn caused many hardcore PVPers to leave the game, myself included.

 

All of this proves PVPers do not enjoy geargrinds. PVPers do not need a carrot in the form of gear to PVP. The majority of PVPers enjoy playing alts, gearing alts, having options to modify gears easily so they can focus on the part of the game they like best which is fighting other players.

 

Honestly if they want to add rewards that encourage PVP, all they got to do is add toys, cosmetics, items and stuff that has no impact on actual performance just fluff stuff that can be shown off to other PVPers. A rare weapon or chest piece gained through some sort of PVP accomplishment would be far more fun and rewarding than any gear grind.

 

I don't understand why they don't add titles that can only be gained via certain PVP accomplishments... For instance if you get to 1 million kills, a special title. They only added Manhunter and majority of PVPers got that years ago! They could add titles for reaching 5mil heals in 100 matches, 500 matches, etc. There's so many ways they could reward players for ingame PVP accomplishments that would make them strive to do well in PVP.

 

They could add special gears for reaching these extremely hard to reach accomplishments too! That would be neat to have a chest piece that only could be gained via reaching a really impressive PVP goal, like 5mil total damage or heals, protection, etc. in 100, 200 warzones. All the data they collect on each toon ought to be used for stuff like this imo, and it would give players PVP goals to strive for.

Exactly this, BW do this.

Exactly, as PVPer, I agree with OP.

I, too left this game in 5.0 because the absurd grind that killed all our alts. I was just returning, trying to gear up some of these alts when they announced the new tier. Suffice to say, I didn't log with any of my alts since then. What's the point if I would never be able to gear them???

Also: announcing a new tier without information on how much will it cost us is suicide. They should explain the details right now, because at this point telling us that tier 5 will be super cheap and thus avoiding all the CXP grind, would be the only thing that could keep us playing. Or a proper bolster that negates grind, of course.

Honestly if they want to add rewards that encourage PVP, all they got to do is add toys, cosmetics, items and stuff that has no impact on actual performance just fluff stuff that can be shown off to other PVPers. A rare weapon or chest piece gained through some sort of PVP accomplishment would be far more fun and rewarding than any gear grind.

How did that work out for Hexid a couple months ago? You had some PvE-ers join the queue -- do their 3 games while they did nothing.

Lhance, I feel for ya. I know I'm being snarky to ya, but you are one of the few, the proud. I just don't think that absent tangible rewards, you will see queues for PvP pop enough -- which means everyone loses. What you need to hope for (IMHO) is offer tangible rewards and hope that folks like me will participate meaningfully (I will) when they do pop. If people want to say I'm lame b/c I need gear as a crutch -- I say -- GUILTY! SO WHATCHA GONNA DO BOUT IT?

But if I'm wrong -- and you, Totem, Trixxie, Icy and others are right that there is a core audience to have a PvP bolster capped queue popping system: Let's test it out. Create two separate queues and see what happens.

Hugs (not sarcasm),

Dasty

For what its worth knuckleheads, I already suffered through 5.0 - 5.9 and the debacle of RNG crates and severe grind. I quit for a year after 5.0 came out because of how terrible it was. I came back after you made some adjustments but it is still a bad system.

 

The new augments are terrible enough. Releasing difficult to obtain gear levels that require difficult to gain materials IS NOT CONTENT. I'm not going to try and spend 30 hours a week times how many alts to get them to have best gear to compete in PVP.

 

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to get through you guy's thick skulls that these things turn customers away from the game. Did the fact you had to merge servers not register? Does the FACT that the MERGED servers now have less population than Harbinger did by itself a little over year ago not give you a hint about player dissatisfaction?

 

If you actually want helpful advise that would get me to stay (as well as several other people I've talked to) as primarily a PVP player is to put in a BOLSTER CAP. The idea is that people entering war zones would have their attributes capped at a certain number, making these ridiculous gear tiers irrelevant.

 

High level gear should ONLY be for people pushing the most difficult Operations. That's the way it used to be. PVP players had 208 gear with expertise whereas PVE players would try and get 216 or even 220 gear, for example in the 4.0 era.

 

PVP players want to just compete knowing they are on an even playing field with their opponent. A bolster cap at a reasonable level would make A LOT of people happy knowing that they can jump right in and play without being at a disadvantage. This also makes it more friendly for people that enjoy playing alts. I would happily keep my sub to continue to PVP.

 

So what do you want to do EA? Make this game fun to log in and play or try and reintroduce gear grind version 2? I warned you in closed 5.0 Beta in 2016 and you ignored me. The mass exodus over Q1 2017 proved me correct.

 

For my girlfriend and I, the choice is clear. If your tier 5 goes forward as proposed...then our subs will be canceled.

 

EDIT: For people to say, "its too early to know how it is going to work"...that's what people said prior to 5.0...and guess what...they were wrong. They made ZERO changes from Closed Beta to 5.0 release. This new crafted gear will work EXACTLY like the 240 augments. I'm trying to create awareness NOW in the slim hope that they actually realize their error and correct it.

Not only you. Many pvp players will quit if devs wont provide a way to gear up via pvp or buff bolster to highest tier. What sense to stay in swtor if they make Gearing system simillar to wow's where you need to farm gear mostly in pve? It is better to go wow then since it has tonnes of players, no wintraders/cheaters and new content going out every 3 months.

But if I'm wrong -- and you, Totem, Trixxie, Icy and others are right that there is a core audience to have a PvP bolster capped queue popping system: Let's test it out. Create two separate queues and see what happens.

 

Dasty

If only we had enough players to be able to test that concept.

I don't understand why they don't add titles that can only be gained via certain PVP accomplishments... For instance if you get to 1 million kills, a special title. They only added Manhunter and majority of PVPers got that years ago! They could add titles for reaching 5mil heals in 100 matches, 500 matches, etc. There's so many ways they could reward players for ingame PVP accomplishments that would make them strive to do well in PVP.

There is evidence to support this. I'll share a personal one.

In my 5+ years playing WoW before I came to SWTOR, I managed to obtain the Battlemaster title. For those who have played WoW, you know it's rated in the top 3 rarest achievement titles in the game, and it's a PvP related achievement. Basically, it's VERY difficult to get it, but once you do, it's like instant fame. Everyone on my server knew my name within a week of getting that title (I believe I was only the third person to get it on my server). Rare (PvP) titles do matter and are far more valued than say, a new tier of gear that no one particularly wants.

There is evidence to support this. I'll share a personal one.

 

In my 5+ years playing WoW before I came to SWTOR, I managed to obtain the Battlemaster title. For those who have played WoW, you know it's rated in the top 3 rarest achievement titles in the game, and it's a PvP related achievement. Basically, it's VERY difficult to get it, but once you do, it's like instant fame. Everyone on my server knew my name within a week of getting that title (I believe I was only the third person to get it on my server). Rare (PvP) titles do matter and are far more valued than say, a new tier of gear that no one particularly wants.

I remember that title. One of my friends got it and I was so jealous

If only we had enough players to be able to test that concept.

The population is too low to devote queues for different reasons. They even had to make cross faction and reduce the overall time of warzones gameplay to fix problems with low pops.

The population is too low to devote queues for different reasons. They even had to make cross faction and reduce the overall time of warzones gameplay to fix problems with low pops.

Yet, games with populations to justify that difference don't do that. I know even the term World of Warcraft is toxic in this community, but some us understand and appreciate both.

Look, in the abstract I think all of us want PvP to be equal in terms of titles, cosmetic gear, etc. Yet...

There is a reason EVERY major MMORPG for non-Arena type / ranked games has a progression system for things like Battlegrounds / Warzones, etc.

(And now that snarky part)....My friends who are truly PvP Gods / Goddesses laugh when anyone talks about PvP in a MMORPG context. They are too busy kicking butt in games designed around PvP.

Which is why...my bifurcated proposal is best. Of course, all my proposals are best, so that is redundant.

Queue for ranked with only title / cosmetic rewards where everyone is on a level playing field. See what happens. It will separate the best from the best, and there will be a market for it -- but then no reason to keep the two systems conjoined.

Dasty