Thats a really good idea. I think ill start doing it now. doesn't seem to be against the rules though.

Such is your ability to do so, but in saying that... prepare to be flamed.

Wow, just a guy venting a bit about his own mistake and then 21 pages full of justifying scammer crap. Oh boy. Call it what you want. The moment someone relies in his calculation on someone else making a mistake is a scammer in my personal opinion. And I despise people like that.

I keep on saying the following: At the end, someone is always picking up the tab!

Every win comes from someone else's loss.

Ask yourself whether you want to earn an unhonest 18 million credits by tricking someone else and making him unhappy (even if at the end it was due to his own mistake) or make an honest 180.000 credits (the correct price in this case) and feel good about it.

(If you feel good about having tricked someone into spending 18 millions for stuff worth 180.000 credits, then I honestly suggest a psychotherapy, because something is wrong with you. Yes, I say and mean it as clear as that! Your happiness relies on other people becoming unhappy. That is unhealthy.)

There are two kinds of people: The one kind takes the 18 millions. The other kind takes the 180.000.

The question is: Which group will achieve greater happiness for themselves?

And YOUR question should be: To what group do YOU belong?

Wow, just a guy venting a bit about his own mistake and then 21 pages full of justifying scammer crap. Oh boy. Call it what you want. The moment someone relies in his calculation on someone else making a mistake is a scammer in my personal opinion. And I despise people like that.

 

I keep on saying the following: At the end, someone is always picking up the tab!

 

Every win comes from someone else's loss.

 

Ask yourself whether you want to earn an unhonest 18 million credits by tricking someone else and making him unhappy (even if at the end it was due to his own mistake) or make an honest 180.000 credits (the correct price in this case) and feel good about it.

 

(If you feel good about having tricked someone into spending 18 millions for stuff worth 180.000 credits, then I honestly suggest a psychotherapy, because something is wrong with you. Yes, I say and mean it as clear as that! Your happiness relies on other people becoming unhappy. That is unhealthy.)

 

There are two kinds of people: The one kind takes the 18 millions. The other kind takes the 180.000.

 

The question is: Which group will achieve greater happiness for themselves?

 

And YOUR question should be: To what group do YOU belong?

Great post Jatta, I could not agree more with everything you've said. I know which group I belong in...but the number of people in the opposite group, scares me.

There are two kinds of people: The one kind takes the 18 millions. The other kind takes the 180.000.

 

The question is: Which group will achieve greater happiness for themselves?

 

And YOUR question should be: To what group do YOU belong?

This is pretty much what I said in my last post. People are getting caught up in definitions and trying "prove" intent. I just don't get why people would so furiously defend the bad behavior. Clearly there are two different camps like you pointed out and I know which one I am in.

9,000,123

90,001.23

 

With numbers this close the intentions of the person making the listing is pretty obvious. He intents to make it look as close as possible to the lower priced item so people will click it by accident because it does look so similar.

 

scam: a dishonest scheme

 

Intentionally trying to trick people into buying something for a higher price in this manner is a dishonest act and I'd say that meets the definition of a scam.

unless maybe they can't read numbers which pretty much places them at a grade 2/3 math/reading level.

the once that *I* think can be commonly mistaken would be:

35,333.33

18,222,222

this may fool someone, again that can't read, that an item was *underpriced* at 18k vs 35k. even then, 100% of the blame goes on the person agreeing to buy this item.

Clearly there are two different camps like you pointed out and I know which one I am in.

The camp where people are unable to account for their actions, due to poor comprehension or math skills?

Wow if I had made that kind of mistake, you would be seeing a Jedi hanging from a noose on the fleet with a goodbye note stapled to his foot!

Gutted!

Wow if I had made that kind of mistake, you would be seeing a Jedi hanging from a noose on the fleet with a goodbye note stapled to his foot!

 

Gutted!

Why bother hanging yourself? Just jump over the rail on one of the outer rings of the fleet station. It looks like the drop would be fatal.

The camp where people are unable to account for their actions, due to poor comprehension or math skills?

If that's how you want to word it I'm OK with that. Some of us believe in 2nd chances, some of us don't. I've said I 100% agree its buyer error in the first place. Just because there is buyer error occurring does not eliminate the possibility of deceptive selling practices. You fail to acknowledge that this is even a possibility.

You also still fail to acknowledge what your thoughts are on the similar looking prices are, hiding behind it being irrelevant. You seem like a logical person, you might never tell us why you think someone would price a mat at 9,000,123 when the low price is 90,000.123, but your non answer is all I need to know.

In short: We agree it's buyer error first and foremost. We disagree that there is even a remote possibility of sellers trying to be deceptive or game this system. Is this accurate or are you not going to throw me a bone?

If that's how you want to word it I'm OK with that.

At least I'm not the one agreeing with someone who infers that everyone on the "opposite field" is a scammer itself.

Some of us believe in 2nd chances, some of us don't. I've said I 100% agree its buyer error in the first place. Just because there is buyer error occurring does not eliminate the possibility of deceptive selling practices. You fail to acknowledge that this is even a possibility.

Because it isn't a possibility.

As mentioned many times earlier, the GTN is scam free, NOT player inattentiveness free. It is impossible to protect people from their own foolishness.

You also still fail to acknowledge what your thoughts are on the similar looking prices are, hiding behind it being irrelevant.

Last I checked, what I said was irrelevant was the seller intent, the latter a convenient scapegoat for people to avoid accounting for their actions while playing with virtual money.

You seem like a logical person, you might never tell us why you think someone would price a mat at 9,000,123 when the low price is 90,000.123, but your non answer is all I need to know.

Refer to the earlier point then: me be a scammer. Obviously.

As is EVERYONE who feels the same.

TL;RD - We agree it's buyer error first and foremost. We disagree that there is even a remote possibility of sellers trying to be deceptive or game this system. Is this accurate or are you not going to throw me a bone?

There is no deception. There is ONLY player inattentiveness; that, or a complete and utter failure at basic comprehension and math skills.

A scam is simply a means of gains through deception or trickery, nothing more.

the price is listed using a base 10 numeral system. if the user cannot understand the difference between a decimal and a delimiter then that is their problem.

the price is listed, clearly

the item and quantity is listed, clearly

if a user makes a mistake, then the mistake is on them. not the seller.

*snip*.

9,000,123

9,001.23

90,000.123

To me, all of these numbers look similar. They are not the same, but they look similar. Similar defined as - having "a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similar You know just so we are working with the same definition.

The issue is fundamentally that you and others don't believe the GTN can be deceptive because to you these numbers are clear as day different. Not everyone is you. People come in all sizes and shapes. Some people are smarter than others. Some people have disorders like dyslexia. You are saying that there is no possibility for people to see these numbers as the same, but in reality you don't know that. Are you seeing through everyone's eyes? You say I don't speak everyone, well nor do you.

I never said I thought everyone was scammer, but enough people are doing this to where I don't think it's unrealistic to think some sellers have dishonest motives. I don't recall ever calling you or anyone else who posted here a scammer either. You don't have empathy for buyer mistakes, and I've said this is fine and it isn't even a wrong mentality. Your camp doesn't think people are being taken advantage of, whereas my camp at least acknowledges the possibility.

It's clear we're likely not even going to agree on disagreeing. I see your camps point of view and I even agree with some of it. I disagree that they way the GTN is setup that you can't make prices look similar. I don't know what else to say. If you don't think sellers are making numbers look similar on purpose it's a non-issue...however I think a lot of us are thinking that people are doing it on purpose. We'll never prove it, but that doesn't mean it can't be true.

9,000,123

9,001.23

90,000.123

 

To me, all of these numbers look similar. They are not the same, but they look similar. Similar defined as - having "a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similar You know just so we are working with the same definition.

 

The issue is fundamentally that you and others don't believe the GTN can be deceptive because to you these numbers are clear as day different. Not everyone is you. People come in all sizes and shapes. Some people are smarter than others. Some people have disorders like dyslexia. You are saying that there is no possibility for people to see these numbers as the same, but in reality you don't know that. Are you seeing through everyone's eyes? You say I don't speak everyone, well nor do you.

That is why there is built-in assistance like ability to sort by unit price, total price or limit with a max price.

Not our fault if you don't use all of the tools available.

9,000,123

9,001.23

90,000.123

 

To me, all of these numbers look similar. They are not the same, but they look similar. Similar defined as - having "a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similar You know just so we are working with the same definition.

 

The issue is fundamentally that you and others don't believe the GTN can be deceptive because to you these numbers are clear as day different. Not everyone is you. People come in all sizes and shapes. Some people are smarter than others. Some people have disorders like dyslexia. You are saying that there is no possibility for people to see these numbers as the same, but in reality you don't know that. Are you seeing through everyone's eyes? You say I don't speak everyone, well nor do you.

 

I never said I thought everyone was scammer, but enough people are doing this to where I don't think it's unrealistic to think some sellers have dishonest motives. I don't recall ever calling you or anyone else who posted here a scammer either. You don't have empathy for buyer mistakes, and I've said this is fine and it isn't even a wrong mentality. Your camp doesn't think people are being taken advantage of, whereas my camp at least acknowledges the possibility.

 

It's clear we're likely not even going to agree on disagreeing. I see your camps point of view and I even agree with some of it. I disagree that they way the GTN is setup that you can't make prices look similar. I don't know what else to say. If you don't think sellers are making numbers look similar on purpose it's a non-issue...however I think a lot of us are thinking that people are doing it on purpose. We'll never prove it, but that doesn't mean it can't be true.

Clear as day to me.

That is why there is built-in assistance like ability to sort by unit price, total price or limit with a max price.

Not our fault if you don't use all of the tools available.

Just like it's not the sellers fault some people can't see tell the difference between a decimal and a comma right. Yeah I get it. I keep saying it's buyer's fault first and foremost. I agree with this...but I assume you agree that those numbers do look similar?

Just because I agree with the above doesn't mean I can't think sellers are trying to be slick. That seems to be the main issue here.

9,000,123

9,001.23

90,000.123

Bold one can't exist on the GTN.

I would say there is a strong enough distinction between the other two. But as I have said, I think decimal unification is a low resource change that removes this "confusion" entirely, as then they would be displayed as

9,000,123.00

9,001.23

Much clearer. Whether necessary or not, that debate will run forever... just seems too simple a change to fret over that.

Clear as day to me.

Believe it or not, it's clear to me as well and I haven't been affected personally. Again though, just because you and I can see that clearly and make an informed decision does not mean it's the same for everyone else.

9,000,123

9,001.23

90,000.123

 

To me, all of these numbers look similar. They are not the same, but they look similar. Similar defined as - having "a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similar You know just so we are working with the same definition.

Similar, NOT identical, which harkens me back to what I said earlier:

There is no deception. There is ONLY player inattentiveness; that, or a complete and utter failure at basic comprehension and math skills.

Not the game or the seller's fault that the inattentive buyer skipped math school.

The issue is fundamentally that you and others don't believe the GTN can be deceptive because to you these numbers are clear as day different. Not everyone is you. People come in all sizes and shapes. Some people are smarter than others. Some people have disorders like dyslexia. You are saying that there is no possibility for people to see these numbers as the same, but in reality you don't know that. Are you seeing through everyone's eyes? You say I don't speak everyone, well nor do you.

Strawman at this point.

I for one don't remember the OP stating he suffers from dyslexia for example.

I never said I thought everyone was scammer, but enough people are doing this to where I don't think it's unrealistic to think some sellers have dishonest motives. I don't recall ever calling you or anyone else who posted here a scammer either.

Then I suggest you reread one of your earlier posts, where you claimed you knew on which side of the field you stood, considering what another used said.

You don't have empathy for buyer mistakes, and I've said this is fine and it isn't even a wrong mentality. Your camp doesn't think people are being taken advantage of, whereas my camp at least acknowledges the possibility.

How do you take advantage of people via-GTN exactly?

This is a mind-boggling statement to say the least.

There is no contact between the would-be buyer and the seller prior to the purchase, the listing has available all necessary info, and the would-be buyer has all the time in the world to make an educated purchase, with no pressure at all.

Again, how is that taking advantage of people?

It's clear we're likely not even going to agree on disagreeing. I see your camps point of view and I even agree with some of it. I disagree that they way the GTN is setup that you can't make prices look similar. I don't know what else to say. If you don't think sellers are making numbers look similar on purpose it's a non-issue...however I think a lot of us are thinking that people are doing it on purpose. We'll never prove it, but that doesn't mean it can't be true.

Said it before, will say it again: seller intent is irrelevant. All that matters is the listing and said listing doesn't manipulate or attempts to deceive the would-be buyer.

People are just looking up for a convenient scapegoat, nothing more.

Believe it or not, it's clear to me as well and I haven't been affected personally. Again though, just because you and I can see that clearly and make an informed decision does not mean it's the same for everyone else.

Then thank god for that little arrow right next to "UNIT PRICE" in the header, amirite?

where is the deception or trickery?

 

the price is listed using a base 10 numeral system. if the user cannot understand the difference between a decimal and a delimiter then that is their problem.

 

the price is listed, clearly

the item and quantity is listed, clearly

 

if a user makes a mistake, then the mistake is on them. not the seller.

I already pointed out the deception. Taking advantage of a faulty UI to make two distinctly different numbers appear similar enough that people will mistake one for the other.

Taking advantage of a faulty UI

You're hysterical.

You're hysterical.

Never mind the fact that the sorting is buggy, in that if you search for one item and then sort it by unit price, then search for another it will go back to the default time-based sorting even though the column still shows as being sorted by unit price. The UI is badly designed for the pricing, and one of the main causes of people making the mistake in the first place. The price is left justified instead of right justified, so the commas don't line up properly. It also inconsistently displays decimal and non-decimal numbers.

So yes, the faulty UI facilitates the scam.

Similar, NOT identical, which which harkens me back to what I said earlier:

 

 

Not the game or the seller's fault that the inattentive buyer skipped math school.

Strawman at this point.

 

I for one don't remember the OP stating he suffers from dyslexia for example.

I have never argued anything was identical only that it was similar. My argument is only a strawman if I am talking only about the OP. There's 4+ threads about this and my point was there could be other factors that people can't help. Could be...not there are.

How do you take advantage of people via-GTN exactly?

 

This is a mind-boggling statement to say the least.

 

There is no contact between the would-be buyer and the seller prior to the purchase, the listing has available all necessary info, and the would-be buyer has all the time in the world to make an educated purchase, with no pressure at all.

 

Again, how is that taking advantage of people?

Mind-boggling? Haha. I'd argue some sellers are trying to take advantage of people being in a hurry, being inattentive, or being stupid by putting a similar price that looks like the low price or even a good price. Even though it's still the buyers fault first and foremost, buyer likely wouldn't have bought said item if it didn't look like a deal.

Said it before, will say it again: seller intent is irrelevant. All that matters is the listing and said listing doesn't manipulate or attempts to deceive the would-be buyer.

 

People are just looking up for a convenient scape-goat, nothing more.

We disagree. I think making the high and low price look similar is a manipulation. You don't. Yeah you can sort the low price, there's a difference between decimals and commas, and there are tools, like sort, to prevent this. That doesn't take away from the point the numbers do look similar. I think why the numbers look similar is relevant.