buddydogputin Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 If you think about, the First Order simply wishes to provide order and stability to the galaxy, instill traditional values and remove the corruption. The resistance has been corrupted by indecisiveness, wanton recknleness, and bread and circuses of SJW and other socially destructive processes. Look that the Caamas document crises, when the New Republic couldn't even keep different species from descending into chaos. We see the same thing with the fall with Yugoslavia and the European empires in Africa. I think the First Order will be the the only power able to stop the genocide of the Grysts and Vong. The Resistance is essentially an anarchist rage mob that does not understand the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Everyone's the good guy depending upon your perspective. Also, since your idea isn't tested it's an hypothesis not a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Right, because using a WMD to slaughter BILLIONS of innocent people is a good guy thing to do. /sarcasm Equating effectiveness with ethical correctness is classic ends justify the means argument, and a sure sign that your moral compass is in need of serious re-calibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebamcfan Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 The Grysk are at the time of the Galactic Empire posing a problem to the Chiss Ascendancy by meddling with their internal affairs and causing strifes among the Ruling Families. Yet I doubt that they will be a large enough force to cause trouble during the Resistance-First Order -conflict. That is, unless we'll get more material that might expand upon the matter (Zahn did hint in Thrawn: Alliances that the Grysk had been watching the Galactic Republic before the Empire came). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orchardtop Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I see your point but, the first order destroyed a planet, with innocent people on it (correct me if I'm wrong as I don't care that much about the newer star wars movies, for me the movie ended at episode 6.) And if you remember, the empire destroyed a planet using the death star and the first order are trying to be the next empire, and the empire is not the good guys, and if your theory suggests that the empire are the good guys, well your theory is very crazy, a good theory not bad, but it has some interesting ideas. Another example is that Kylo Ren, one of the leaders of the First order looks up to Darth Vader, who was evil, he tries to be the next Darth Vader, that is showing a sign of evil. Supreme Leader Snoke is a sith, the sith are people who killed the innocent and killed those were worthy but not worthy enough, most sith are evil, and if he controls the First Order, then the first order is evil as he will bring his evilness onto the first order. I see your point, your theory is very interesting, but I personally believe the Resistance is good, maybe not amazingly good, but they are good, and the First Order is evil. Will you help a friend? Use my referral link it would mean the world to me. Here it is: http://www.swtor.com/r/Y4lkWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebamcfan Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I see your point but, the first order destroyed a planet, with innocent people on it (correct me if I'm wrong as I don't care that much about the newer star wars movies, for me the movie ended at episode 6.) And if you remember, the empire destroyed a planet using the death star and the first order are trying to be the next empire, and the empire is not the good guys, and if your theory suggests that the empire are the good guys, well your theory is very crazy, a good theory not bad, but it has some interesting ideas. Another example is that Kylo Ren, one of the leaders of the First order looks up to Darth Vader, who was evil, he tries to be the next Darth Vader, that is showing a sign of evil. Supreme Leader Snoke is a sith, the sith are people who killed the innocent and killed those were worthy but not worthy enough, most sith are evil, and if he controls the First Order, then the first order is evil as he will bring his evilness onto the first order. I see your point, your theory is very interesting, but I personally believe the Resistance is good, maybe not amazingly good, but they are good, and the First Order is evil. First Order destroyed the Hosnian System that held the capital planet of the New Republic, the Hosnian Prime. It is true that they are aspiring to ideals of the old Empire (with many New Republic Centrist senators supporting the First Order in secret to pave way for their arrival). As for Snoke, he IS not a Sith. They died when Vader redeemed himself and helped Luke in defeating Emperor Palpatine on Death Star 2. Snoke is something different, a Dark Side Force-user who has seen the rise of the Empire. And while Ben Solo/Kylo Ren does terrible things such as killing his father, he shows conflict and pain over such decisions until he assumes the mantle of the Supreme Leader. It will be interesting to see where his path goes in EP9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Ben Solo/Kylo Ren Completely unrelated tangent here, but the way you put Kylo's name makes it look like Ben Ren and that gives me a chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) The First Order are the Good Guys?? really? Their top 3 Figures consist of * Snoke who plans to eliminate anybody (more like Everybody) he doesn't like even pitting a frustrated man-child against his own Father (Ya, that doesn't sound at all .. Evil), While letting the discord between that boy and Hux simmer. * Kylo The most frustrated angry kid ever. Unfortunately with this kid he cant simply be sent to his room (has a tendency of trashing rooms) because of his abilities. Helps/ Leads a fight that leads to the death of classmates that are trying to follow what his own *Uncle is teaching. Orders the "Mass Murder" of an entire village simply because they lived the same place as an old acquaintance of importance. (Ever heard of "Oradour-sur-Glane"). When Kylo was confronted with his own "Father" Han Solo (Hero of the Alliance) and heard of his mother he lures his father to a state of Calmness and Confidence *Murders* him face to face. Despite all the "Good Figures" around Kylo as he grew it was his Grandfather "Darth Vader" the most feared person (Mostly machine now due to his own catastrophic choosing's) that Kylo felt drawn to (In the most awkwardly uncomfortable ways possible) that lead to his association with Snoke. * Hux Murdered his own Father (Hey this is becoming a .. thing) for a Promotion. Openly plotting against Kylo for Snoke's Favor. Goes on to ending an impassioned speech of destroying the same group that freed the galaxy from the reign of The Empire, Darth Vader (Kylo's Grandfather again) and Palpetine (Emperor) with using the largest W.M.D. ever to obliterate an entire planet's system of people as a "Kickoff Point" to start even more Murder and Oppression "Galactic Empire Style". * This is all just the First Movie There is more. Governments throughout history have claimed "We come in Peace", "We offer Security", "We only seek to bring order to your Chaos" The Persians, Roman Empire, Axis Forces World Wars 1 and 2 and others still in more recent times. Any time its not welcome its Oppression. None of those factions ever believed their actions to being benevolent despite what they told the natives. The First Order are Not the good guys just Much.. Much less refined and professional then the Government they're *Trying to reinstate (Galactic Empire). Edited June 21, 2019 by MikeCobalt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddydogputin Posted June 22, 2019 Author Share Posted June 22, 2019 Right, because using a WMD to slaughter BILLIONS of innocent people is a good guy thing to do. /sarcasm Equating effectiveness with ethical correctness is classic ends justify the means argument, and a sure sign that your moral compass is in need of serious re-calibration. It was a valid military target. Hosnian Prime contained: * Headquarters of the New Republic military * Most of the Republic fleet in dock * The political capital and nervous system of the Republic Saying that the use of WMD automatically makes one the villains is like saying the Americans were the villains for nuking Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) It was a valid military target. Hosnian Prime contained: * Headquarters of the New Republic military * Most of the Republic fleet in dock * The political capital and nervous system of the Republic Saying that the use of WMD automatically makes one the villains is like saying the Americans were the villains for nuking Japan. No, it was NOT a military target. It contained military targets (such as the first 2 you listed), with many more civilian targets. What the American's did (with the support of Canada and the UK via the Manhattan Project) was a terrible thing. You can argue that it was the only viable option. You might even be able to argue that point well. It does not change the fact that it was terrible, and not a "good guy" thing to do. Few things in life, and even fewer in war, are so black and white that it can be summed up in terms of "Good Guys" and "Villains" (of course, military propagandists and patriotic military historians love to paint that picture) It is also a flawed comparison. The US and Japan had been at war for almost 4 years at that point. The FO and NR were not at war, this was a totally unprovoked attack. Imagine instead of hitting Pearl Harbor, the Japanese/Nazis used nuclear weapons to obliterate Washington DC. Would you say they were the good guys? After all, a major part of the Nazi success came from bringing order. After WWI, the Germans were left economically crippled by brutal reparations and sanctions, would it really be so bad for them to use whatever means at their disposal to break free and spread that order? Edited June 23, 2019 by MadDutchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveTheMonkeys Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 If you think about, the First Order simply wishes to provide order and stability to the galaxy, instill traditional values and remove the corruption. The resistance has been corrupted by indecisiveness, wanton recknleness, and bread and circuses of SJW and other socially destructive processes... You're projecting your RL politics onto Star Wars to draw some pretty shaky conclusions. However, I'm pretty sure this is a troll thread, so I'm not going to waste time refuting your arguments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 The First Order are far from the good guys. Use some logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hahahaha, I never knew "Star Wars" had such a Complex Narrative. If you think about, the First Order simply wishes to provide order and stability to the galaxy, instill traditional values and remove the corruption. The resistance has been corrupted by indecisiveness, wanton recknleness, and bread and circuses of SJW and other socially destructive process's *Krennic: We were this close to providing peace, security for the galaxy. *Galen: You're confusing peace with terror. *Krennic: Do I, huh? You have to start somewhere. https://imgur.com/xAY2AHG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacoManCow Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 The people who work for the First Order are likely not bad people, but the ones in charge take advantage of the system, and are arguably very bad people, and they are the reason the First Order is seen as such an evil group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 The people who work for the First Order are likely not bad people, but the ones in charge take advantage of the system, and are arguably very bad people, and they are the reason the First Order is seen as such an evil group. You mean the "Citizens" on Galactic Empire and First Order held planets right? not the Stormtroopers, Officers and Leaders right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 It's comical to read that some of you actually believe The First Order are not evil. That's like saying Charles Manson and his followers weren't evil, they were all just misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddydogputin Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 It's comical to read that some of you actually believe The First Order are not evil. That's like saying Charles Manson and his followers weren't evil, they were all just misunderstood. Charles Manson did not have noble goals. This is a new government that is replacing a corrupt government. It is a revolution just as the Rebel Alliance was a revolution during the Galactic Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Charles Manson did not have noble goals. This is a new government that is replacing a corrupt government. It is a revolution just as the Rebel Alliance was a revolution during the Galactic Civil War. How exactly do you know Manson didn't have noble goals? And yet you're still defending The First Order, who blatantly kill people that get in their way, or for no reason at all. To put it simply, they're murderers. Keep on defending them though. With your train of thought and your 'noble ideology' it would appear that you're also okay with N. Korea killing their own, aka, the end justifies the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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