If Conquest was done well, it would be competitive. Now the big guilds have even wider margins on the board. It's far from being done well. There is also all the credits being introduced into the economy with this "push button, get Conquest points" model.

 

 

The one he linked on Page 65.

 

 

I know you can run chapters in a group, doesn't mean they were intended to be, but it can be done.

 

Crafting...all the big guilds have entire branches dedicated to crafting. That's as close to grouping as it's going to get for that. Guilds also have Conquest branches, but no one can deny crafting isn't participating in Conquest. Crafting-heavy Conquest weeks were pretty much the only time there were huge margins on the leaderboard...no more.

The key word in the opening is "If". You see, I'm of the considered opinion that it has never been done to what it could have been. Had they actually made guilds have to PvP for control of planets, it would have been more thematically correct to it's name. This isn't an argument I'm drumming up for convenience here either, it's been my position since Conquest was a thing. While larger guilds can, in fact get higher numbers, so too can smaller guilds. Are they going to be competitive? No, but they can increase their rewards. This takes nothing from the larger guilds/players, except maybe mat sales on the GTN.

Now we get to the crux of the issue. "You can do something, but it wasn't built to be done that way". Yet, they have been a part of Conquest for forever. What this tells me is that there is, with this information, no way that Conquest has "lost it's shape and purpose". This is the claim made by the OP with the very title of the thread. How is pointing out this fallacy a 'witch hunt"? A witch hunt would imply that they were absolutely right in their assertions. They're absolutely wrong with them, or enough of them to make criticism of them 100% valid.

The key word in the opening is "If". You see, I'm of the considered opinion that it has never been done to what it could have been. Had they actually made guilds have to PvP for control of planets, it would have been more thematically correct to it's name. This isn't an argument I'm drumming up for convenience here either, it's been my position since Conquest was a thing. While larger guilds can, in fact get higher numbers, so too can smaller guilds. Are they going to be competitive? No, but they can increase their rewards. This takes nothing from the larger guilds/players, except maybe mat sales on the GTN.

 

Now we get to the crux of the issue. "You can do something, but it wasn't built to be done that way". Yet, they have been a part of Conquest for forever. What this tells me is that there is, with this information, no way that Conquest has "lost it's shape and purpose". This is the claim made by the OP with the very title of the thread. How is pointing out this fallacy a 'witch hunt"? A witch hunt would imply that they were absolutely right in their assertions. They're absolutely wrong with them, or enough of them to make criticism of them 100% valid.

Yep, Conquest was never competitive. And honestly, I'm not necessarily bothered by the fact that it isn't. At the end of the day, the only benefits of winning a planet are a title and the ownership bonus. Would I like the title, yes. Can I understand others wanting, yes. Do I believe BW should invest the time and effort to restructure Conquest to allow for a more competitive landscape, No.

I think it would take significant effort on BW's part to make Conquest competitive. Probably by adding more tiers and somehow balancing or restricting those tiers based on size. But size based on what? Guild Members? Guild Accounts? Number of Members meeting personal Conquest? Active members? It's gets complicated to develop a model to map guilds into tiers.

Then should planets rotate through small, medium, large? Maybe. This would probably be the easiest change to increase accessibility, but without the balancing on size, large guilds would just invade small planets and still lockout small guilds.

At the end of the day, what would you accomplish? More people getting the title? Doesn't that devalue the titles?

Seems like a lot of effort to get minimal benefit. Especially from a business point of view. I really don't see how making Conquest more competitive would drive subs or cartel coin purchases.

Now we get to the crux of the issue. "You can do something, but it wasn't built to be done that way". Yet, they have been a part of Conquest for forever. What this tells me is that there is, with this information, no way that Conquest has "lost it's shape and purpose". This is the claim made by the OP with the very title of the thread. How is pointing out this fallacy a 'witch hunt"? A witch hunt would imply that they were absolutely right in their assertions. They're absolutely wrong with them, or enough of them to make criticism of them 100% valid.

How can we determine something is "wrong" or "right" that is 100% subjective? It's an opinion what is good or bad, fun or not! If this guy expresses he finds conquest not as enjoyable as he once did, he's not wrong, it's his opinion. For him, "it's lost its shape and purpose."

Since when can we not have opposing ideas or opinions? Also, this is a game, right? You guys are discussing a game ffs! Why so serious, and why so mean?

I am dismayed people have made this a personal vendetta versus individuals instead of making it about the ideas presented and simply keeping it on point and on topic. At no point should anyone encourage others en masse to "ignore" someone just because their idea isn't agreeable lol.

I don't view the OP as a troll, and his intentions seem genuine he seems to be venting about changes he doesn't like to conquest, and he is offering ideas as best he can that he thinks would improve conquest. Isn't that what the forums are for?

The audacity exhibited is just mind-boggling.

 

No, I'm saying you and your cronies are no better than OP, because you don't have the wisdom to just walk away after a certain point...but I do.

 

You guys just keep on flinging poop at each other.

 

 

Seriously? I can't use the scientific term?

Funny you should say that, and claim this is a witch hunt, because you, like the OP, have ignored the numerous posts by people who agreed with the OP that the system could use some changes to the group content rewards, but they disagreed with the OP's fallacious arguments so the OP snipped out the part that was in agreement to attack the poster for the disagreement. You, like the OP, have ignored the numerous posts that pointed out the fallacies of the OP's argument, which the OP fed through a paper shredder so they could ignore the logical counter arguments and instead repeat the same fallacious arguments ad nauseam. You, like the OP, ignore (or maybe you're just ignorant to the fact) that the OP keeps moving the goal post.

It's also funny that you claim it's only a minority of people who voice their feedback on the forums and yet the feedback for the 6.1.1 Conquest changes have been overwhelmingly positive, both on the forums and in game. Throughout this thread, and the other one, the OP has been dismissive of anyone's positive feedback on the changes. Overwhelming positive feedback vs a single voice with a fallacious argument who has been dismissive of anyone who counters their argument with logic, anyone who finds anything positive in the system, and even of most people who show support, but it's not unconditional support so they tear it apart.

I agree that people should just place the OP on ignore and completely disregard their posts in their entirety, but they should not stop posting. They should not stop posting their positive feedback, in this thread and the other one. Let the overwhelmingly positive feedback drown out negative.

When it comes to this question of yours, "VAST MAJORITY does this and accepts the given mechanic of doing some content repeatedly for profit"<- - this part alone should help highlight the issue. Why should One singular soloable content&playstyle done repeatedly be the -only- given mechanic to earn some great conquest?

So if a developer comes up with an idea to make earning stuff more accessable to everyone and the job they want you to do is to get some apples you throw your toys out of the pram. Instead you demand you will only fetch grapes for the reward.

Okay...

This patch was supposed to make conquest more inclusive. Instead, it introduced one singular path to good conquest that is so good, easy, straightforward and efficient that all other playstyles look real bad and slow at earning conq by comparsion.

It doesn't get much more inclusive than this really...EVERYONE can join easily, even unknowing and/or unwillingly.

But perhaps you use a different definition of "inclusive" ?

Nah, its the fact that everyone can get good stuff now, isn't it? Your mats trade scheme must have taken a nosedive or something else to that extend.

Well, sorry mate. No more EXCLUSIVE Conquest rewards for you.

You know we had some really lengthy and productive conversations about conquest years back now, when the initial bad changes happened to conquest.

Instead of bothering here, I'd probably try to find some of them. They had many nice ideas, and thoughts on how to make conquest better none of which were used btw.

You got to understand many people even quit the game over those conquest changes. So, many people agreed that the direction conquest went was bad.

Most likely most of those people left, and what you got now are people who are content with how conquest is now. Also, people are so used to conquest being utter garbage, these newest changes probably seem 100 times better just because of that.

I guess I fail to see what's so offensive by the OP though maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any attacks by him, or insults at others, I didn't see him try to troll anyone. It just seems a bit disproportionate, the amount of backlash he is getting for simply saying he thinks conquest now is garbage.

How can we determine something is "wrong" or "right" that is 100% subjective? It's an opinion what is good or bad, fun or not! If this guy expresses he finds conquest not as enjoyable as he once did, he's not wrong, it's his opinion. For him, "it's lost its shape and purpose."

Since when can we not have opposing ideas or opinions? Also, this is a game, right? You guys are discussing a game ffs! Why so serious, and why so mean?

 

I am dismayed people have made this a personal vendetta versus individuals instead of making it about the ideas presented and simply keeping it on point and on topic. At no point should anyone encourage others en masse to "ignore" someone just because their idea isn't agreeable lol.

 

I don't view the OP as a troll, and his intentions seem genuine he seems to be venting about changes he doesn't like to conquest, and he is offering ideas as best he can that he thinks would improve conquest. Isn't that what the forums are for?

Has Conquest always had "Crafting Week" in one form or another? Is crafting a necessarily group oriented activity? Then the assertion that Conquest has lost it's shape and purpose is objectively wrong. Has completing chapters of KotFE/TET been a thing since they've been around? Are they necessarily group content? Then this assertion is again, objectively wrong. I don't care if they're a troll or not, they are objectively wrong on their premise that Conquest was designed to encourage group content, and that's it's somehow lost it's "shape and purpose".

This is laid bare by the SP content that has been a part of Conquest for forever. Surely, if they were looking to encourage group content, or PvP, or GSF, they could have limited Conquest to just those activities. It would have been a perfect storm of outrage, but then at least the OP would have been closer to the truth than what we have right now.

You know we had some really lengthy and productive conversations about conquest years back now, when the initial bad changes happened to conquest.

 

Instead of bothering here, I'd probably try to find some of them. They had many nice ideas, and thoughts on how to make conquest better none of which were used btw.

 

You got to understand many people even quit the game over those conquest changes. So, many people agreed that the direction conquest went was bad.

 

Most likely most of those people left, and what you got now are people who are content with how conquest is now. Also, people are so used to conquest being utter garbage, these newest changes probably seem 100 times better just because of that.

 

I guess I fail to see what's so offensive by the OP though maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any attacks by him, or insults at others, I didn't see him try to troll anyone. It just seems a bit disproportionate, the amount of backlash he is getting for simply saying he thinks conquest now is garbage.

While you're poring through those, you may find some posts by me indicating that I felt they did it wrong from it's inception, for reasons I've already laid out in this thread. I'm not sure, as I'm old and forgetful, but we may have even had some interactions on this very thing during some of those threads.

No, I mean because you guys aren't being civilized. A lot of you have been piling on ad hominem attacks and then patting each other on the back for using such attacks. This is what I mean by "witchhunt." If all you can do is offer personal attacks and a blacklist campaign in return, you haven't a leg to stand on.

 

You must be on a different server. 9 times out of 10 when I ask if anyone wants to do heroics, I'm met with the proverbial echo.

 

 

Edit

Alright, maybe it's because so many people troll Fleet and capital planet Gen Chat. Players in-turn disable it and never see anyone asking for help with the heroics. That points to a problem that requires another thread.

Maybe you should go back to the beginning where a lot of people, including myself said they needed to add some extra points for group activities. Now how is that attacking? It wasn't until he started ignoring those and kept making snide comments that the conquest now only takes 10 minutes. I have yet to do a weekly/flashpoint that takes 10 minutes and even the heroics I do take longer than 10 minutes. He is so focused on the easy items or stuff like the "taxi" (which by the way is not for level 75) or the junk vendor (which by the way I have yet to get) that he doesn't take into consideration other items. Does the story for Koet take 10 minutes per chapter? Haha that would be nice but most of those take up to 30 minutes or longer.

The problem is the OP keeps changing his mind about what he is arguing about. It would seem that he would have agreed with people that said that those points needed adjusted but no he still kept arguing because it would indicate that he wanted the conquest to go back to his way and only his way. That is the evidence he has presented because when it is shown that people agreed with him about the points being adjusted, he changed his tune so when you look at the evidence he has shown, it has never been about the points, it has always been about he is upset that more people can enjoy the conquest their way.

Maybe you should go back to the beginning where a lot of people, including myself said they needed to add some extra points for group activities. Now how is that attacking? It wasn't until he started ignoring those and kept making snide comments that the conquest now only takes 10 minutes. I have yet to do a weekly/flashpoint that takes 10 minutes and even the heroics I do take longer than 10 minutes. He is so focused on the easy items or stuff like the "taxi" (which by the way is not for level 75) or the junk vendor (which by the way I have yet to get) that he doesn't take into consideration other items. Does the story for Koet take 10 minutes per chapter? Haha that would be nice but most of those take up to 30 minutes or longer.

 

The problem is the OP keeps changing his mind about what he is arguing about. It would seem that he would have agreed with people that said that those points needed adjusted but no he still kept arguing because it would indicate that he wanted the conquest to go back to his way and only his way. That is the evidence he has presented because when it is shown that people agreed with him about the points being adjusted, he changed his tune so when you look at the evidence he has shown, it has never been about the points, it has always been about he is upset that more people can enjoy the conquest their way.

I'm pretty much done with this thread. But herein lies the entire discussion as to why so many felt the negativity of the entire affair.

** Most were willing to discus facts that were accurate and willing to work with positive suggestions. OP seems bent on only one idea: get rid of the new changes. NO ! NO WAY !! The new changes have been some of the best in a while !!

** If there are any changes for PvP that are needed … then so be it !! No need to destroy .. take away from what we finally have that is working better that what we've seen in a long time to correct another issue. The correct answer is to seek out a positive means of addressing other issues that need some additional tweaks.

** And yes … especially since the "time" claimed for completion of said areas were sadly distorted that also proved that the rest of the facts were less than desirable. Riding the space bar like a hobby horse ?? REALLY ?? OK a number of farmers might do that … but why tear up the game for the rest of the population for those who are going to actively look for means of circumventing the system any way !!

** Pro group activities: the team has for some time now tried to force this to the overall audience. It has backfired to a degree. I do primarily solo ( and for very good personal reasons ) . At any rate I can tell you that aside from some mats I am still enjoying the changes more than I ever thought possible.

Whatever the changes are I hope they keep as many of them as possible.

** And yes … once again Casi you have demonstrated a very accurate and civil summation of the entire affair. Well done !

 

 

Maybe you should go back to the beginning where a lot of people, including myself said they needed to add some extra points for group activities.

Maybe you should pay a bit attention to more recent pages in turn. People are extremely active and busy pointing out how they feel no playstyle besides doing planetaries should be included to this new shiny conquest system at all. Situation presented here https://imgur.com/9GRp73o is perfectly fine for them. Just check it out yourself. Skim through last 3 pages or so. If you yourself truly think new conq. should be bit more inclusive and buff other playstyles just a tiny bit, then I would guess there are far more pressing and interesting matters for you, too, to talk about besides making various observations about me or my posting.

The problem is the OP keeps changing his mind about what he is arguing about.

Like 95% of all I'm saying underlines different corners of one single thing: Planetary missions are now awesome conquest. Every other playstyle is extremely slow and modest way to earn tons of conquest by comparsion. Please elevate other playstyles to same ballpark with planetaries. That's just about it really.

I'm sure other's have mentioned this before but is it possible that the 2xp has been the reason why the numbers look so skewed? People gaining levels really quick while leveling new characters or gaining renown levels really quick because of the extra xp people are earning. Maybe once the 2xp is over we can revisit this and get a better idea of how the cq numbers really are

It is not a bad question! However, these type of things don't require some fancy dev analytics tools. It can be tested out by a normal player just fine. If you'd like to try this yourself, I recommend doing this: On a fresh day where you have dinged nothing, pref on maxl lvl 0 conq character, do daily repeatable heroic named Rock and a hard place. (Belsavis, Imp side.) Kill no mobs, just walk in, finish the mission and walk out. You have three missions completing all at once: Daily repeatable objective for doing heroic mission, daily repeatable objective for doing Belsavis mission and the actual HC2 - mission. So you get xp from three missions pouring in. Thanks to the conquest mission log, you know exactly how much conq you get as completion reward. (iirc 10k+ 5k and 625 conq from the heroic mission.) This is just me drawing from memory tho, so prolly good idea to double check the numbers. Since you know exactly how much conq your char now has and since you know exactly how much of that conq is via mission rewards, you can count how much of it is XP.

I did the test myself and numbers are avail..somewhere in this jungle of a thread. I can't remember which page though. But some spoilers: XP is a very modest part of total conq earned now, at least in situations where you do a conq objective. Things such as renown dings and so on can be counted too: Check how much conq you earn from renown ding objective. Multiply that by, say, 100 and you see what 100 renown levels gets you.Then think about how much conq you earn otherwise when tackling the massive body of content needed for 100 renown levels.

It is not a bad question! However, these type of things don't require some fancy dev analytics tools. It can be tested out by a normal player just fine. If you'd like to try this yourself, I recommend doing this: On a fresh day where you have dinged nothing, pref on maxl lvl 0 conq character, do daily repeatable heroic named Rock and a hard place. (Belsavis, Imp side.) Kill no mobs, just walk in, finish the mission and walk out. You have three missions completing all at once: Daily repeatable objective for doing heroic mission, daily repeatable objective for doing Belsavis mission and the actual HC2 - mission. So you get xp from three missions pouring in. Thanks to the conquest mission log, you know exactly how much conq you get as completion reward. (iirc 10k+ 5k and 625 conq from the heroic mission.) This is just me drawing from memory tho, so prolly good idea to double check the numbers. Since you know exactly how much conq your char now has and since you know exactly how much of that conq is via mission rewards, you can count how much of it is XP.

 

 

I did the test myself and numbers are avail..somewhere in this jungle of a thread. I can't remember which page though. But some spoilers: XP is a very modest part of total conq earned now, at least in situations where you do a conq objective. Things such as renown dings and so on can be counted too: Check how much conq you earn from renown ding objective. Multiply that by, say, 100 and you see what 100 renown levels gets you.Then think about how much conq you earn otherwise when tackling the massive body of content needed for 100 renown levels.

I was actually planning on doing that one today. Only thing is I can't upload a video to show proof of it because my desk is my lap and my chair is my bed and the cam on the computer is focused on me so i wouldn't be able to record a video of myself doing the mission. When I do the heroics I usually do them in groups of three like today I was planning on doing Alderaan, Balmorra, and Belsavis and I complete all the missions on one planet before moving on to the next one. Sometimes I finish the bonus ones sometimes I don't. Also numbers might be skewed a bit because I logged off last night after sending companions out on crew skill missions plus today being the new conquest week I get the bonus from my guild hitting the 5 million mark

I was actually planning on doing that one today. Only thing is I can't upload a video to show proof of it because my desk is my lap and my chair is my bed and the cam on the computer is focused on me so i wouldn't be able to record a video of myself doing the mission. When I do the heroics I usually do them in groups of three like today I was planning on doing Alderaan, Balmorra, and Belsavis and I complete all the missions on one planet before moving on to the next one. Sometimes I finish the bonus ones sometimes I don't. Also numbers might be skewed a bit because I logged off last night after sending companions out on crew skill missions plus today being the new conquest week I get the bonus from my guild hitting the 5 million mark

If I see a post claiming someone dinged 100 renown levels in 10 minutes, I'm straight out going to die laughing.

If I see a post claiming someone dinged 100 renown levels in 10 minutes, I'm straight out going to die laughing.

If they did they are clearly cheating the system. I have gained alot of renown levels since the new system was put in place but definitely not that quickly