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A bit confused about the nature of the "dark side"

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
A bit confused about the nature of the "dark side"

Joachimthbear's Avatar

11.09.2016 , 10:24 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by JKDGSGDKJA View Post
I'd argue that as more to do with how you define what is good. Most things that'd I'd consider "pure good" (saving lives, making a medical breakthrough, etc) often come across in defiance of an evil environment or status quo.
There is something to this, but it's kind of tricky. A fatal disease is an "evil" in the broad philosophical sense - a natural evil, in this case, as opposed to a moral evil. The act of providing a cure to the disease is a good act - a morally good act. The opposite to the natural evil of the disease is not the moral good of curing it, it's the natural good of being in good health. The opposite to the moral good of curing the disease is the moral evil of wilfully spreading it.

The nature of the Dark Side is ambiguous; it may be classifiable as a natural evil. Like other natural evils - diseases, earthquakes, hurricanes - it may be impossible to get rid of entirely. However, to wilfully perpetuate the Dark Side (as the Sith do) is morally evil, and to combat the Dark Side's influence is morally good.

People falling from the "Light" to the Dark Side are arguably in the grey areas here; extreme duress is usually involved, diminishing their responsibility. However, there seems to be a tipping point where a person commits an act of great and obvious moral evil, fully embracing the Dark Side in the process.

You can argue that without evils to combat, there would be no acts of good. Maybe so. However, we don't need moral evil for that. Natural evils will keep us busy enough. If (extremely unlikely) we ever run out of natural evils to struggle against, we will by then have transcended to a state of perfect existence, at which point by definition there is nothing to complain about.

Quote: Originally Posted by JKDGSGDKJA View Post
And again you could argue that all of those noble or pure good acts are corrupting "natural" status quo. But that's why GL fanboys claim the darkside is, and why it's so wickedly evil------disrupting the natural order, but never questioning that the natural order itself might be flawed, and deserving of corruption.
The natural order of the physical world and the natural order of the spiritual world are two different things. In the physical world we are finite beings and thus will always encounter natural evils, which must be overcome or we will die. In the spiritual world of the Force, there is immortality.

Quote: Originally Posted by JKDGSGDKJA View Post
Dark=/=Evil, and Light=/=Good.
Depends on what you understand "Dark" and "Light" to mean. If I am naming things in the cosmology of a setting I created, I can make "light" a synonym for "good" and "dark" a synonym for "evil" if I so choose. I could also do the opposite.

Quote: Originally Posted by JKDGSGDKJA View Post
If that defeatist, fatalistic way of thinking is that standard, is it so surprisingly why so many dark siders crop up at any given time?
A Jedi simply accepting that death is inevitable is neither defeatist nor fatalistic. It's not defeatist because death isn't a defeat - not when you have empirical evidence for an afterlife. And it's not fatalistic because it doesn't say you shouldn't fight to stay alive right now - it just accepts the objective reality that one day you will die.

Quote: Originally Posted by JKDGSGDKJA View Post
"Hey Padawan, I stole you from your parents as a baby, and the rest of your life will be as the tool of a corrupt and inept Republic. And eventually you'll die. But don't think of trying to change any of the many flawed things in your life or develop any sense of skepticism or proactivity------because that's the dark side "
Gonna suddenly sound pretty great after they hear the Sith pitch.


11.09.2016 , 06:54 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Joachimthbear View Post

Gonna suddenly sound pretty great after they hear the Sith pitch.

OT/PT/GCW-era Sith and Jedi were both **** It sucks because even Darth "I'm the bad guy" Malak is more character.

"Hey you! Force sensitive! You get to choose between following petty old men who are both terrible people -----Mace and Yoda-----in the Jedi Order, or Edge Personified-----Maul and Sideous in the Sith!"

"What's that? You don't want to follow two dogmatic orders that are shadows of what they were in 3640 BBY? You want to put your talents serving the Empire or Rebellion? What's that? You want to fight alongside Thrawn or Ackbar? Well I got something better than that! Instead you have the option to be a jobber for Gallius Rax or that OC Wedge Antilles.

....I forgot what I was ranting about. ...Oh right the PT/OT factions being terrible. Yup.

Anyways, Dark, Light, who cares?! Let's make Zakuul Great Again!

SithKoriandr's Avatar

11.09.2016 , 11:17 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by JKDGSGDKJA View Post
DnD or not I reject the idea that the LS is inherently good or the DS is inherently bad. Whatever those alignments were originally written as is irrelevant, from what stories I've ready it's almost always the weak minded that get ensnared in by the influence of either in an unhealthy way.

From what I've seen, in both the GCW era and TOR era there's been a consistent trope of religious zealots stealing babies. It's a whole different spectrum of retarded to me that parents would willingly give up their children. Characters like Temple, Guss, and EU Leia (maybe this applies to TFA Leia but I don't know enough about the NuCanon to confirm that either way) prove you can easily have normal, adjusted Republic/Imperials that have some degree of force sensitively, but have no exposure (and possibly no desire to be exposed) to the Jedi/Sith Codes. The idea that any large number of parents would give their children up just because they have an unusually high midichlorian count is even more ludicrous than the assertion DS must be evil and LS must be good.

Actually I think the Fel Empire in the Legacy Era had Force Knights similar to Zakuul, but beyond that I can't think of any major examples of force sensitives being assimilated into the Galactic Republic/Empire/etc in a way that doesn't involve the Jedi and Sith. Weird.

Though you make a good point-----you'd think the hyper-inflated sense of pride and arrogance among Jedi (You see this in KoTOR 2, Nomen Karr and Nomar Organna, Yoda and Mace Wyindu in the Prequels/OT, etc) In fact as much of a master manipulator as Sideous is made out to be, I doubt Anakin would have ever gotten to that point if Mace and Yoda didn't consistently antagonize Anakin at every opportunity.

Also speaking of the prequels and a corrupt Republic on the verge of collapse, happy Election Day everyone!
I'm sure it's odd to think anyone would do something like just hand over their child, but different societies, and this one fictional.

I don't think Yoda or Mace were master manipulators, not that they couldn't be. I would even say Yoda came to realize and regret his part in Anakin's fall. Anakin has some major blame of course, he did do what he did of his own free will, however, he was raised in a society that had people who knew of him (seemed to have contact with him) and basically said "No mater what you do, you will never reach where you want to go"

Yoda grew up in a time with different beliefs and no wiggle room.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

MadDutchman's Avatar

11.09.2016 , 11:33 PM | #64
Probably been mentioned before in this thread, but Mortis and and now Bendu have kinda thrown a big monkey wrench in the old idea that the existence of the Dark Side is the imbalance

and GL was involved with Mortis.

So sorry folks, GL changed his mind again, and Disney is running with the new version, not the old.
I Have Spoken

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