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Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.09.2016 , 10:37 AM | #511
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
About capacitors: both yallia and you said that damage per shot is preferable to overall DPS. That makes sense, but then why not always choose damage capacitor (at least over frequency)?
You're completely right for dealing damage purposes we choose damage per shot, however there are instances/builds where frequency can make a difference.

For example with Heavy lasers no matter the Capacitor you choose it always takes 3 shots to kill a defense turret in Domination, so if you choose Frequency Capacitor you can kill turrets 15% faster. This lets kill all 3 turrets on a Satellite much faster when clearing it. It also let's you shoot down enemy mines faster.


You also have some really high burst damage builds like Sanic's. Where he runs Quads with Pods/Clusters, Blaster Overcharge and Concentrated fire. The entire idea of the build is to kill a target before he can even react, in this instant the extra 5% dps from Frequency is what he chooses he's trying to eek out as much possible damage in that small time frame before a pilot can even react to move.


I hope that gives you an idea of why/when some players choose to use Frequency, myself I only use it with Heavy's and Light laser's.

Alright that was my last question I'm literally walking out the door after I hit submit reply. :P
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MDVZ's Avatar


MDVZ
01.10.2016 , 05:07 AM | #512
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
About capacitors: both yallia and you said that damage per shot is preferable to overall DPS. That makes sense, but then why not always choose damage capacitor (at least over frequency)?
There area couple of regular circumstances where you have firing windows of a second or two against targets that are easy to aim at. With very small windows with highly evasive (actually moving, not the mechanic) targets, landing each shot and wasting as few as possible into space is best, so highest damage all day. With slow, lumbering (bomber on node) or stationary (GS) targets, you have a whole couple of seconds and getting extra shots can make frequency more effective than its 15% dps suggests. It can be, lets say, let you get, say, 4 shots on the target where you would have got 3 without it, which is obviously 30% more damage, rather than 15 or 10.

So I would say it depends what you're planning to shoot at most.

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
01.10.2016 , 08:20 AM | #513
Quote: Originally Posted by MDVZ View Post
There area couple of regular circumstances where you have firing windows of a second or two against targets that are easy to aim at. With very small windows with highly evasive (actually moving, not the mechanic) targets, landing each shot and wasting as few as possible into space is best, so highest damage all day. With slow, lumbering (bomber on node) or stationary (GS) targets, you have a whole couple of seconds and getting extra shots can make frequency more effective than its 15% dps suggests. It can be, lets say, let you get, say, 4 shots on the target where you would have got 3 without it, which is obviously 30% more damage, rather than 15 or 10.

So I would say it depends what you're planning to shoot at most.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I assume 30% more than no capacitors, but that's no comparison, and anyway it depends on the blaster. Quads actually get an extra shot in the first second with frequency capacitors, but RFL don't (that's weird...).

Anyway, I'm gonna rethink my capacitors now... I think it does mostly depend on what you're planning to do with them, but some guns benefit from some capacitors more than they do from others.

Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
01.10.2016 , 09:41 AM | #514
On my T2 Scouts I use Booster Recharge instead of TT/BO. It's just a gut feeling but after trying all capacitors I found Frequency Capacitor to be the most useful for my build. As others have said, it makes it easier to kill a Gunship before it reacts and it's also helpful when killing bombers. It helps killing turrets faster, which saves shield energy and in some situations it might help to get an extra shot at a target before it hides behind an obstacle.

Lavaar's Avatar


Lavaar
01.10.2016 , 10:44 AM | #515
I use damage capacitor on my builds for a very simple, personal preference reason. Consistency.

I often roll toons on new servers so I have a lot of different ships at various states of mastery. Damage capacitor keeps the range and ROF the same for me no matter what server I am flying on, which makes it easier to stay consistent. While frequency is better usually for sustained DPS, and range increases flexibility as well makes it easier to get into the "sweet spot" of close range blasting, damage has always worked well for me as I don't have to adjust my habits regarding blaster consumption, or change when I start shooting. Range capacitors would also change the synergy I have between the cluster missiles and the laser blast ranges.

There are advantages and disadvantages to all three, but I think in this particular instance there isn't really a wrong answer, as all three are quite well balanced.

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
01.10.2016 , 11:23 AM | #516
I'm not sure about that. I used to have range capacitor on my T2 BLC, but now I think damage might actually be better overall, or maybe frequency (gotta find out how to deal with the drain, though). In the end it comes down to preference, but I'm pretty sure you could get better results for certain blasters with certain capacitors.

Damage is the steady one, but frequency can really boost certain lasers (like quads and lasers) just by giving them that extra shot in the first second.

Quote: Originally Posted by Danalon View Post
On my T2 Scouts I use Booster Recharge instead of TT/BO. It's just a gut feeling but after trying all capacitors I found Frequency Capacitor to be the most useful for my build. As others have said, it makes it easier to kill a Gunship before it reacts and it's also helpful when killing bombers. It helps killing turrets faster, which saves shield energy and in some situations it might help to get an extra shot at a target before it hides behind an obstacle.
What's your last upgrade on booster recharge? The regen to shield and weapon power? That makes sense to me.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.10.2016 , 12:47 PM | #517
I thought Verain did the math to prove Range capacitors are best in slot for BLCs?

(That's not his only thread on the topic but it is a recent one, and I know its not his thread but he does contribute a lot to it and links his orginal thread)
P.S. Is Verain alive? Denver has gotten a lot of snow recently...

Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
01.10.2016 , 01:04 PM | #518
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
What's your last upgrade on booster recharge? The regen to shield and weapon power? That makes sense to me.
It is. Tried both but I don't need even more engine power except on extremely rare occasions. The Reactor Boost upgrade is a very minor shield heal and I hardly ever run out of weapon power too. I also can use Turning Thrusters and Increased Turning Rate on Retros which make the ship incredibly maneuverable.

Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I thought Verain did the math to prove Range capacitors are best in slot for BLCs?
Statistically Range Capacitors are the best option for BLC because of the steep damage dropoff BLC has. I use RC on my Gunships because it's more helpful when I'm forced to dogfight. However I prefer FC on my T2 Scouts because the higher maximum DPS somewhat counteracts the missing damage cooldown. When attacking Bombers I need every DPS I can get and when attacking Gunships Wingman usually is enough to counter their DF. I don't joust other scouts (except the bad piloted ones), so the additional accuracy RC gives isn't crucial.

I built my T2 Scout to fit my personal preferences, it's worse in some but better in other situations.
Also, the statistically best option isn't necessarily the most enjoyable for everyone.

MDVZ's Avatar


MDVZ
01.10.2016 , 06:52 PM | #519
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I assume 30% more than no capacitors, but that's no comparison, and anyway it depends on the blaster. .
Not exactly. What I generally mean is that frequency capacitor converges down on 15% extra damage from 100% extra damage (theoretically; two shots where you would have had 1). But it needs 7 shots to converge down on 15%, at which point it levels out. To put it another way, If frequency affords you one or more extra shots up to 6, then it's actually more than 15% extra damage.

Ironically, this effect is most pronounced with low ROF, high damage per shot blasters. High RoF guns converge on the 15% faster than low RoF guns, and the Extra Shot Effect (I'm naming it that for conversation sake) makes less difference anyway because of lower damage. So, yes, it absolutely depends on the gun and depends on the target.

It also depends on other stuff in your build as to whether you think it's worth it. When I run pods with BLC, for example, I run range so they synergise better. When I run clusters, I run whatever I feel like, but it's often frequency for Extra Shot Effect.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
01.11.2016 , 01:02 AM | #520
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I thought Verain did the math to prove Range capacitors are best in slot for BLCs?

(That's not his only thread on the topic but it is a recent one, and I know its not his thread but he does contribute a lot to it and links his orginal thread)
P.S. Is Verain alive? Denver has gotten a lot of snow recently...
So, to really understand this, you should know how to graph an integer step function, which is how you'd accurately portray blaster fire in GSF for a math model.

A step function looks like a staircase, but without the verticals between individual steps. Each step "floats."

Normally you'd draw this with damage as the y axis, and time as the x axis.

Figure 1 step function.
Code:
damage
.
.                       -----
.                -----
.        ------
. -----
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . time
Once you have the basic step function, then you have to know how the capacitors modify it.

Damage, just makes each step higher, by the same amount, 15%. It takes effect on each successful hit. So it helps quite a bit, right from the start, unless you miss.

Range shifts the step function to the left a little (you get to start shooting a little bit earlier due to the extra range), it also increases the probability of a hit at any range over 500m, and at any range greater than 500m it also slightly increases the damage per step based on range. All of these effects are fairly small, but work right from the start (or even before the start compared to other capacitors) and add up to a reasonably powerful overall effect.

Frequency just makes the length of the steps on the time axis shorter. It doesn't have any effect at all until the end of the first shot. At that point the second shot fires ahead of the competing capacitors, and it gains a roughly 90% advantage compared to them, but that advantage lasts only for a tiny fraction of a second until the competing gun + capacitor combo fires, and then frequency falls behind again. With each shot fired that temporary advantage lasts a little bit longer until, eventually, the gun with frequency always has a one shot lead on the slower firing cannons. So it shines in long term average damage if there's continuous fire. Even so, the long term damage advantage only winds up being around 5% because the greater damage per shot and/or increased hit from the other capacitors makes up for their slower firing rates.

Basically there's a scale between ease of use and power of effect. Range is the most likely to provide a benefit on any given shot, but the benefit on average will be the smallest available benefit. Frequency is the least likely to provide any benefit at all. Going an entire week of matches and seeing 0 points of effective damage contribution from frequency on a BLC scout wouldn't really be outrageously weird. Still, if you can land 4 or more shots per attack run, it's almost certainly going to be the most powerful capacitor. Damage capacitor is the simplest effect to understand, and the ease of use and average size of effect is intermediate between the other two. If you think you're only going to get one shot in most encounters then damage is by far the best option.

TL: DR version, it's mathy, somewhat complicated, and which capacitor is best really depends on circumstances.

Range and Damage are definitely always at least ok choices. For Frequency, if you can't land a continuous stream of at least 4-5 shots on every target you attack, then there's a fair chance that the other options would outperform it almost all of the time.

The other point to keep in mind is that the differences between capacitors usually isn't enough to change the expected outcome of a fight. If 400 damage is enough to kill the target, then the difference between a 730 damage BLC shot and a 770 damage BLC shot really doesn't matter. So, "pick what you find pleasing and don't worry about it too much," is generally the best advice.
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