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Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.05.2012 , 12:58 AM | #981
Quote: Originally Posted by Terko_Koslah View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzv...eature=related

Don't know if this has been posted, but here it is.
That's a client-server synchronization issue, caused at least in part by network latency, especially variability in the latency.

You'll notice that twice he mounts successfully, and once he doesn't even get the mount to appear. Every other time, the castbar pops back up with 'cancelled': this is the server overriding the client's estimation that you should be mounted.

Being able to duplicate it that reliably, however, does suggest some sort of problem that's exacerbating the timing discrepancy beyond just simple network latency.

As I said in the other thread. There could some delay between when the client starts the castbar and when it sends the message, a problem in the netcode for example. It could be taking the server a significant amount of time to start the timer...which frankly could just be caused by high load. Either would increase the discrepancy beyond any latency variation and make this much easier to do.

It could also just simply be that the timers on the client and the server are mismatched: It wouldn't have to be by much. 10 milliseconds or so would be more than enough. This could be a software issue, with one or the other set not quite properly. It could be a compiler issue, with some random thing is causing the timers to not work quite the same way. It could be a hardware issue: if the client's system is measuring a second to be a shorter period of time than the server is (which could be a problem with either box, or possibly even just manufacturing variations...but simple variations shouldn't make THAT much of a difference), it would also make this easier to do.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Zeetofox's Avatar


Zeetofox
01.05.2012 , 01:00 AM | #982
At first this was really annoying, but it's not so bad anymore especially knowing that everyone has it, just have to adapt till they fix it soon.

Xcore's Avatar


Xcore
01.05.2012 , 01:01 AM | #983
Quote: Originally Posted by Noxxia View Post
Let's not forget the game isn't even a month old.

Anyone who played WoW when it first came out and is actually honest with themselves can tell you how that game was in virtual shambles. Warlocks were hardly playable and Blizzard was constantly refunding days of game time due to downtime just to list a couple of things. Before anyone becomes overly critical, first try to comprehend the complexity of what is going on underneath it all, then try to realize that nothing is perfect.

They've done many many many more things right than WoW and other MMOs did on release, and you haven't given them sufficient time to fix what is needed if you're already hating on the game.
NO, EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS POST IS WRONG

1) It doesn't matter if this game is out for 1 week or 1 year... we're talking core mechanics

2) WoW had a TERRIBLE Launch -- Irrelevant, it had NONE of these issues... I was there.

3) I love the game in itself, "many, many, many more things right than WoW" <--- Irrelevant

4) Haven't given them enough time to fix? Good, keeping pressure on them is a good thing.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.05.2012 , 01:09 AM | #984
Quote: Originally Posted by Xcore View Post
That isn't a Smuggler... man, what is wrong with you? Also, ok "assuming" I was referring to this IA Video. No, its not just an "interesting bug" but its a result of the overall shoddy coding. Also, there is still about .2-.5 delay before the castbar/animation bugs out, this video showcases: Responsiveness Delay (.2-.5) and Bugs AS WELL as, the terrible UI itself...

It showcases GCD issues, Animation Issues, Responsiveness Issues and lack of UI Response. All in one nice video...

Anyways, no, not talking about the IA Video... I said Smuggler. :|
I should really probably flag this.

Anyway.

How the heck am I supposed to know which 'the smuggler video' is? I was assuming you were talking about one of the ones I hadn't mentioned, not that silly 7 second one where he switches targets that shows only a slight delay caused by the action queue and everything working perfectly otherwise.

As for the IA... I don't see any GCD issues, minimal responsiveness issues (there is a hitch at the end of the castbar before the heal appears, likely the same sync problem that's causing the mount thing), no responsiveness issues, or 'lack of UI response'(isn't that the same as responsiveness?)

Every time he hits an ability, the castbar pops up immediately, the GCD starts immediately and runs the correct length of time. Each activation takes only one click. The healing is applied roughly at the appropriate time, though there is an ungainly hitch after the castbar reaches the end.

Even after kolto injection stops working, the UI is absolutely perfectly responsive.

The animations however...lag behind what's actually happening with the abilities rather badly and ends up turning into a muddled mess. This does not, however, have any effect on the ability itself: it still goes off correctly, even when the animation is way, way off. Right up until it stops going off at all.

Seriously, other than the obvious, what is the problem here? It's really starting to sound like you just don't like the way the UI is designed.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Noxxia's Avatar


Noxxia
01.05.2012 , 01:13 AM | #985
Quote: Originally Posted by Xcore View Post
NO, EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS POST IS WRONG

1) It doesn't matter if this game is out for 1 week or 1 year... we're talking core mechanics

2) WoW had a TERRIBLE Launch -- Irrelevant, it had NONE of these issues... I was there.

3) I love the game in itself, "many, many, many more things right than WoW" <--- Irrelevant

4) Haven't given them enough time to fix? Good, keeping pressure on them is a good thing.
Comparing the game to WoW is completely relevant considering ALL THREE of your quotes are comparing it to WoW. Calling it Irrelevant is only going to make a developer/mod/admin/whoever reading your posts think you're an idiot and overly critical ******e who doesn't understand the code that goes into a massive project like this.

I don't disagree with you in the fact that what you're talking about is definitely an issue. I think you're quite correct. But to be unforgiving and not give credit where it's due is only going to hurt your push. Yes, push, but you have no right to say "you can't compare it to WoW when talking about what they did RIGHT" but then cite three people who do nothing BUT compare it to WoW. There's a massive flaw in that logic, which WILL cause the people who MATTER to not listen and disregard your efforts. Again, I don't disagree that it needs to be fixed.

Amplicon's Avatar


Amplicon
01.05.2012 , 01:14 AM | #986
After roughly 3000 posts on this issue still no further comment from BioWare, except that meager comment? RLY?

I dont think we are griping here, these are legit issues that need adressing by them.

Noxxia's Avatar


Noxxia
01.05.2012 , 01:16 AM | #987
Quote: Originally Posted by Amplicon View Post
After roughly 3000 posts on this issue still no further comment from BioWare, except that meager comment? RLY?

I dont think we are griping here, these are legit issues that need adressing by them.
Valid or not, people are being disrespectful *****. No Bioware person should feel the need to justify wasting time responding to something they've already said they're working on. If you think it's simple, go make an MMO yourself. Then come back and talk.

Zeetofox's Avatar


Zeetofox
01.05.2012 , 01:18 AM | #988
Quote: Originally Posted by Noxxia View Post
Valid or not, people are being disrespectful *****. No Bioware person should feel the need to justify wasting time responding to something they've already said they're working on. If you think it's simple, go make an MMO yourself. Then come back and talk.
Yeah, like i said if you have any MMO experience or any skill you should be able to adapt to this until it's fixed. Everyone has this problem so you're not at a terrible disadvantage, they said they'd fix it soon adapt till then.

blargness's Avatar


blargness
01.05.2012 , 01:23 AM | #989
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiron_Raptor View Post
I should really probably flag this.


Every time he hits an ability, the castbar pops up immediately, the GCD starts immediately and runs the correct length of time. Each activation takes only one click. The healing is applied roughly at the appropriate time, though there is an ungainly hitch after the castbar reaches the end.
...

Seriously, other than the obvious, what is the problem here? It's really starting to sound like you just don't like the way the UI is designed.
It's the "roughly at the appropriate time" thats the issue. Frankly speaking, warcraft on a verizon aircard and 300ms of latency feels more responsive than this game. As a 'for instance' I can still interrupt <1.5 second casts in warcraft on my aircard and yet struggle to catch slow casted heals in this game with an interrupt on a <100ms cable modem.

I tend to be frantic on the interrupts (as many PVP players tend to be) as I was probably in the middle of something else when I spot the heal. What usually happens is my avatar shakes his hand like he's trying to get it off and if I'm lucky it MIGHT land before the heal does.

At the end of the day this is a video game and it should be able to respond at least partially to "twitch" gameplay. I shouldn't be forced to stare at my action bars to watch the GCD timer to determine that its safe to hit an ability. It's bad enough I have to stare at a 2 inch section of my screen to watch for procs.

A game like Old Republic SHOULD feel very fluid. The avatar on screen should feel like an extension of myself in the game world. Right now there is this sense of detachment as I realize that my abilities average ~10% failure rate of going off when I want them to.

Xcore's Avatar


Xcore
01.05.2012 , 01:23 AM | #990
Quote: Originally Posted by Noxxia View Post
Comparing the game to WoW is completely relevant considering ALL THREE of your quotes are comparing it to WoW. Calling it Irrelevant is only going to make a developer/mod/admin/whoever reading your posts think you're an idiot and overly critical ******e who doesn't understand the code that goes into a massive project like this.

I don't disagree with you in the fact that what you're talking about is definitely an issue. I think you're quite correct. But to be unforgiving and not give credit where it's due is only going to hurt your push. Yes, push, but you have no right to say "you can't compare it to WoW when talking about what they did RIGHT" but then cite three people who do nothing BUT compare it to WoW. There's a massive flaw in that logic, which WILL cause the people who MATTER to not listen and disregard your efforts. Again, I don't disagree that it needs to be fixed.
Of course compare to WoW... but all those comparisons are irrelevant...

Who cares if WoW crashed when it launched? is this thread about Launces? or about Responsiveness? WoW's responsiveness on Launch was the same as it is now (to a large degree).