Im playing through Ossus and i cant help but noticing that the current 'commander-y', 'tough guy', 'authoritative' variant of smuggler voice acting which does not go well with the male smuggler at all.

 

Its easy to notice that the voice actor is the same, its also easy to notice that he was given instruction to talk more 'authoritative' that would be fitting of a 'commander', speaking from stomach in a rather forced way - like they do in TV series haha.

 

But it doesnt suit the smuggler. Please whenever new stuff is recorded, stop that 'tough guy' routine and give the smuggler his smuggler-y, cheerful and quippy voice back.

 

Male smuggler was easily one of the top acts in this game - just dont mess with what's not broken.

 

This 'commander' thing did not suit many classes anyway - the 'commander' thing suits jedi classes and maybe trooper and the 'emperor' variant suits sith classes, but they totally are out of place for smuggler, spy or a bounty hunter. It just doesnt fit the in-game universe and these characters' previous development.

 

Smuggler should be smuggler. Give the fun, funny old version voice-acting back.

 

...

 

Im Enako and i approve of this message. Now we are going back to our regular programming. News at 11.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Enako

And get them out of storylines where God-like force wielders think they're all that.

Smugglers are all about beer, blasters, and babes, not commanding the universe.

And get them out of storylines where God-like force wielders think they're all that.

Smugglers are all about beer, blasters, and babes, not commanding the universe.

 

Yeah definitely!

 

Even if they were rather non-star-warsy, KOTFE, KOTET were excellent story-writing with fluid execution without letting mmo mechanics hamper the story. But creating one single story and applying it to every class just does not fit.

 

KOTFE/KOTET and what came after them were more fit for force users and maybe troopers. They didnt fit smugglers, spies and bounty hunters. When they make different expansions, this time the opposite may happen - the story may fit the other group of classes and not fit the earlier ones.

 

So if they could find a way to make a grand story and still integrate all different classes into it while those classes are doing 'their own thing' in the galaxy, that would work. It may be a bit difficult however.

 

Then again saving the galaxy for the 5-6th time really gets boring. They definitely dont need to run the same trope again and write 'grand' stories all the time. Smugglers should smuggle, sith warriors should try to dominate, inquisitors conspire, guardians should protect, troopers should wage war and so on.

 

It doesnt need to be a grand story. It just needs to be 'our' story.

And get them out of storylines where God-like force wielders think they're all that.

Smugglers are all about beer, blasters, and babes, not commanding the universe.

 

I'm not quite sure I agree with all of this … but one thing is for certain...

 

Whoever wrote most of the LS characters must have starched their undies first !! Seriously … The smuggle is about the only one with any real "fun". And yes … by the time we're done with KotFE / ET (aside from catching a little flak from Lana for wanting to be kissed at a bad moment... he's pretty much too stiff.... again !

 

IMO the Smuggler can still be the commander... BUT this one … is just flat mischievous from time to time !! I didn't say a BAD guy or LS playing DS Smuggler … just still fun loving and yeah … has a since of humor with a quippy remark to be thrown in from time to time !

 

The simple fact is … my main character is a Smuggler !!

 

What ??? You don't think some old dude can still have fun ?

 

HA !!

And get them out of storylines where God-like force wielders think they're all that.

Smugglers are all about beer, blasters, and babes, not commanding the universe.

I do agree with this sentiment and I'll even up the ante on that. I didn't even like it for my Sith characters. My Sith Inquisitor became known as Darth Nox story-wise and keeper of knowledge/secrets as such. Also Dark V. I mean I was able to wield force ghosts and all that. After that I didn't want to have a title as commander and if I had been interested in running an Alliance (which I wasn't) I would've change the title of commander to empress right away.

 

In fact at the end of KotET I became empress of the eternal alliance and I was still called commander by everybody. After the vanilla stories BW has been trying to do a one-size-fits-all approach but it doesn't fit all. For me KotFE/ET is just glorified fan fiction as it is.

 

All in all I think BW lost their ability to put forward compelling stories some time ago and the smuggler suffers from that but not just the smuggler.

I very much think that the storytelling has much improved since the game's release. KOTFE/KOTET are on a totally different level than all the former stories, even the best class stories - their main problem is not being star-warsy enough and somewhat 'stretching' the lore.

 

I approached kotfe/kotet as 'some detour in SW world that is not so much star warsy', and therefore i enjoyed them pretty much. So much that i binge-played everything on one weekend, nonstop. It was good. There were some cheesy parts yeah, but overall, pretty solid world-building and storytelling. That Zakuul setting was a pretty good setting even if it should have stayed outside SW lore since it was a bit streching it. A Zakuul stronghold may be pretty nice come to think of it.

 

I think all Bioware needs to do is to go back to 'people doing their own thing in the grand flow of things inside an alien galaxy' thing as opposed to having us save the galaxy every expansion. 'Stuff that i cant control is happening, and im finding my way towards my own goal through it' is more engaging than 'im the big bad hero that constantly saves the galaxy'.

 

For example the smuggler can start running his/her medium-large smuggling/trading operation while still doing side jobs while the events unfolding in the galaxy affects his/her business. The sith warrior and inquisitor can maintain their own power base inside the empire as dark council members and as sith trying to get ahold of the position of emperor, trooper can get a small crack command of his/her own, and similar things can be set up for all other classes. There should be some 'running' stuff as opposed to someone else telling us to do stuff. They should let us build and maintain some stuff that functions as game mechanic as opposed to just decorative strongholds or running daily or weekly missions. That would be a nice addition.

 

I really dont understand why they dont give us some stuff to do and 'live' the star wars life to some extent while they create spectacular planets, cities, cultures like Coruscant, Onderon etc. We just go here and there and run missions and thats it. It would be very interesting to be building/running something across the galaxy and doing stuff in those spectacular cities.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Enako

I very much think that the storytelling has much improved since the game's release. KOTFE/KOTET are on a totally different level than all the former stories, even the best class stories - their main problem is not being star-warsy enough and somewhat 'stretching' the lore.

 

I approached kotfe/kotet as 'some detour in SW world that is not so much star warsy', and therefore i enjoyed them pretty much. So much that i binge-played everything on one weekend, nonstop. It was good. There were some cheesy parts yeah, but overall, pretty solid world-building and storytelling. That Zakuul setting was a pretty good setting even if it should have stayed outside SW lore since it was a bit streching it. A Zakuul stronghold may be pretty nice come to think of it.

 

I think all Bioware needs to do is to go back to 'people doing their own thing in the grand flow of things inside an alien galaxy' thing as opposed to having us save the galaxy every expansion. 'Stuff that i cant control is happening, and im finding my way towards my own goal through it' is more engaging than 'im the big bad hero that constantly saves the galaxy'.

 

For example the smuggler can start running his/her medium-large smuggling/trading operation while still doing side jobs while the events unfolding in the galaxy affects his/her business. The sith warrior and inquisitor can maintain their own power base inside the empire as dark council members and as sith trying to get ahold of the position of emperor, trooper can get a small crack command of his/her own, and similar things can be set up for all other classes. There should be some 'running' stuff as opposed to someone else telling us to do stuff. They should let us build and maintain some stuff that functions as game mechanic as opposed to just decorative strongholds or running daily or weekly missions. That would be a nice addition.

 

I really dont understand why they dont give us some stuff to do and 'live' the star wars life to some extent while they create spectacular planets, cities, cultures like Coruscant, Onderon etc. We just go here and there and run missions and thats it. It would be very interesting to be building/running something across the galaxy and doing stuff in those spectacular cities.

 

I agree that the story telling is still good … it does seem that in some cases with the alliance and all .. that "some" of the character "flavors" (the smuggler being one) … has kind of lost their way a tad. It's not really bad... but there are a few characteristics that unquestionably added that certain "flair" to the smuggler that could and should still be alive... (even if he's running the alliance). Otherwise our smuggler is more like a Jedi or Commando.

 

At lest that's kind of my take on it.

 

And … eventually it's "possible" that the alliance will carry on without the guidance of the smuggler... IF it's done correctly... He'll ALWAYS be welcomed back on the BEST of terms.

 

Again... just my opinion.

 

EDIT: .. this is also one of the reasons I'd love to have that space station for a SH.

Edited January 21, 2020 by OlBuzzard

I very much think that the storytelling has much improved since the game's release. KOTFE/KOTET are on a totally different level than all the former stories, even the best class stories - their main problem is not being star-warsy enough and somewhat 'stretching' the lore.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. You're right about it not feelings Star Warsy but I also find the story line non-sensical and faulty. Part of it is because we all get forced into one single role of the commander which, in my view, doesn't fit at ALL with what are characters were about. It's clearly written for the Jedi Knight.

 

Now, I'm not going to repeat everything I said in the past but there's a list of things that I find ridiculous, non-sensical and even plot mistakes exist. Also plot holes but that's less aggravating than mistakes and again too many deus ex machina moments. I find that poor writing. But, to each their own. I'm not trying to change your mind but I will say that I found KotFE/ET particularly poorly written and certainly not a step from the original stories.

 

I would agree that the delivery of the story is better but not the story itselfs.

Also plot holes but that's less aggravating than mistakes and again too many deus ex machina moments. I find that poor writing. But, to each their own. I'm not trying to change your mind but I will say that I found KotFE/ET particularly poorly written and certainly not a step from the original stories.

 

I would agree that the delivery of the story is better but not the story itselfs.

 

I can tell that much of that is due to the difficulty of game development - especially technical possibilities afforded by current technology and budget restraints. If a budget is limited to a certain degree, it becomes impossible to run 6-7 varied storylines at the same time. Then que the unified story, que the 'one size fits all as much as it can be done' approach.

 

If we look at the class stories, we can easily see that they were also very short and blunt - we had the impression that they were sufficient stories because they had to be run together with planetary stories and side quests in the early days of the game. This forced us to re-run entire rigid storylines of each class only with some flavor of class story added by the individual class' story. That was a drag in your 3th alt and on...

 

Compared to that state of affairs in early game and how short the class story becomes if you take it away from planetary stories, kotfe/kotet comes up as a gigantic story. I very much think that implementing such a phenomenally large story differently for 4 classes would be very difficult. With enough budget and time, it sure could be done. That's certain. But the budget was likely not there.

 

If the budget is not there, then dividing the budget into 4 classes and doing sufficiently differentiated stories for each could work out. It could be combined with a larger 'event' story that's happening in the galaxy at a given point in time.

 

Hell, actually there doesnt need to be one large 'happening' in the galaxy in every expansion. Every class can have their own lives and their own events.

The stories went downhill after Illum. Some descended faster than others.

 

You could headcannon it that the smuggler matured over the years and grew to accept their new role as commander.

 

Alternatively they could just be in a serious phase, when talking serious business.

 

Overall though, even the best voice actors can't raise a mundane script to ascend to the heavens and walk with the gods. . - Besides, they're just given a bunch of lines to say in the voice - There's probably little directorial input at this point, since most of the budget went on other things- like making a new gearing system and designing planets and making cutscenes and mini-movies and cartel market items to flog.

(spoiler)

 

Well, i chose to join back to the Republic at the end of Onslaught, and they gave me a 'Commodore' title. Which is lightyears better and fitting than 'Commander'. And with Odessen joining the republic as a member world, things seem to be much more reasonable.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Enako

I can tell that much of that is due to the difficulty of game development - especially technical possibilities afforded by current technology and budget restraints. If a budget is limited to a certain degree, it becomes impossible to run 6-7 varied storylines at the same time. Then que the unified story, que the 'one size fits all as much as it can be done' approach.

Budget and technology are two very different things. Their budget is limited but the delivery or way in which the KotFE/ET story was delivered is because they focused on story content and took budget away from group content development to achieve it, particularly 4.0. That's when they, for the first time, upped all operations to max level instead of making new content. So there was better tech available and budget to do it, but that doesn't meant the story writing itself was good.

If we look at the class stories, we can easily see that they were also very short and blunt - we had the impression that they were sufficient stories because they had to be run together with planetary stories and side quests in the early days of the game. This forced us to re-run entire rigid storylines of each class only with some flavor of class story added by the individual class' story. That was a drag in your 3th alt and on...

When comparing it to other MMOs and NOT single player games the 8 class stories were revolutionary in a way, especially because they all were part of a larger story and intertwined at moments. The delivery may have been somewhat short or blunt but at the same time I felt it was effective and it made me feel a part of a larger story but also with my characters as an integral part of them, whereas in KotFE/ET I felt like a spectator to the main story which was all about the Valkorion family. As such I get that there was only one story and not 8 because your character was no longer the actual main character in the story.

And I find KotFE/ET entirely much more annoying and boring to play through than the class stories did. I wanted to know what was next in the class stories and in KotFE/ET I just wanted to know when it was going to end.

Compared to that state of affairs in early game and how short the class story becomes if you take it away from planetary stories, kotfe/kotet comes up as a gigantic story. I very much think that implementing such a phenomenally large story differently for 4 classes would be very difficult. With enough budget and time, it sure could be done. That's certain. But the budget was likely not there.

You keep referring to length but that's not an indication of quality. Long stories can be boring and nonsensical and that's what happened in KotFE/ET as far as I'm concerned. KotFE/ET could have been a lot shorter and at least have an Imp and Rep side or a Force User and Tech user side to have it make at least more sense. Still not sure what my Sniper was doing in that cave making a brand new force sniper rifle to fight Arcann that I didn't even need to equip to win the fight.

If the budget is not there, then dividing the budget into 4 classes and doing sufficiently differentiated stories for each could work out. It could be combined with a larger 'event' story that's happening in the galaxy at a given point in time.

The budget already wasn't there in RotHC and SoR but they were still better stories. You are just doding the real issue. It's not about money, it's not about tech, it's not about 1 vs 8 stories, it's about whether the story content is enjoyable and at least makes sense within the context of the IP. Whereas SoR did manage that still even with just one story and limited budget, KotFE/ET with increased story budget failed to deliver that. It's about the actual story as it was written that I have trouble with.

 

Hell, actually there doesnt need to be one large 'happening' in the galaxy in every expansion. Every class can have their own lives and their own events.

I agree with that but then KotFE/ET was all about one big event to the next. All very contrived and aimed at keeping us going from "wow" to "wow" so we wouldn't see the issues. Well aside from the ridiculous amounts of skytroopers, the wows got stale very quick and the story was lame. There I said it.

 

But it has nothing to do with whether or not there were 8 class stories. They could've written a better story to fit all 8 classes in there but they didn't. They just threw some stuff in there for everyone left and right but that still doesn't make it right. They could've made some small deviations in the story depending on whether or not you're a force user and it could've made more sense.

 

And you see, I like the story telling better since Iokath. Onslaught I liked also, even though it's short but the problem with Onslaught is that they've completely abandoned an overarching story where depending on your faction the main events play out in exact opposite ways. So that's a story telling mistake of a different category. That's where they did a better job at RotHC and SoR. The issue is also that the story can never really get too much depth and have things going one way or another because the red line is events with different outcomes rather.

 

If first played the imp version and I liked it. Then I played the rep side and I was constantly like...wait, that contradicts what I already did on the other side. There just isn't an actual story. Just events lined up that are inconsequential cause it's an entirely different story in the end. You go to Onderon and whether or not the imps or reps win there makes zero difference because you go to Mek-Sha just the same. And whereas on the imp side these events needed to be won to be able to go to the final stage, on the rep side these events were lost by the Empire and the final stage still happens.

 

No, if you like it all that's fine but although I regret the loss of class stories and I know budgets are limited, all of that is not what I'm talking about. It's the writing itself that I don't care for and now this new situation where the imp and rep side version directly contradict each other which just sucks imo.

 

That has nothing to do with those arguments you try to squeeze in. It's the story iteself, even just the oultine of it that's the problem.

No, if you like it all that's fine but although I regret the loss of class stories and I know budgets are limited, all of that is not what I'm talking about. It's the writing itself that I don't care for and now this new situation where the imp and rep side version directly contradict each other which just sucks imo.

 

Nothing new there. Nothing at all.

 

Look at the class story both imp and pub on Taris, or Balmorra, or any other class story planet up through chapter 3. Both sides win their respective story, overcome the other side, and regardless what or where a character's story accomplished or went since the moment of character creation, everyone winds up at Makeb, sluiced into a narrowed story line.

Edited January 22, 2020 by xordevoreaux

Nothing new there. Nothing at all.

 

Look at the class story both imp and pub on Taris, or Balmorra, or any other class story planet up through chapter 3. Both sides win their respective story, overcome the other side, and regardless what or where a character's story accomplished or went since the moment of character creation, everyone winds up at Makeb, sluiced into a narrowed story line.

The new situation I refered to is the contradiction in what happens. Everybody ending up at Makeb is not a contradiction.

 

Taris and Balmorra stories happen at different times for example. That's why Balmorra is first in the Imp side and Taris first on the rep side. Those stories don't contradict each other, they follow one after the other.

 

When you go to Mek-Sha you destroy the rep fleet if you're an imp. If you're on the rep side you prevent that from happening. So that's a contradiction in what happens in the SAME event. And that's new because it's one of the main events of the story. On the imp side it was clear the final assault could not happen if they didn't stop the rep fleet. On the rep side it happens regardless AND the empire bombs civilians, which is a choice on the imp side.

 

So really, whereas the class stories had different events in different places, the larger events of the main story line of the conflict between the two sides is the same in the end. On Makeb there is a different story to follow depending on whether you're imp or rep but they do not contradict each other. They are part of the same larger story etc. Even in KotFE/ET they made every character the "commander" so that there was no contradiction in the story itself and the different choices you make do not affect the main outcomes.

 

It's not till recently that they let both sides have contradicting stories. That's new. The fact that on the imp side you succeed in destroying the Corellia factory and on the rep side you prevent it from happening means that these outcomes are a complete contradiction of each other.

The new situation I refered to is the contradiction in what happens. Everybody ending up at Makeb is not a contradiction.

 

Taris and Balmorra stories happen at different times for example. That's why Balmorra is first in the Imp side and Taris first on the rep side. Those stories don't contradict each other, they follow one after the other.

 

When you go to Mek-Sha you destroy the rep fleet if you're an imp. If you're on the rep side you prevent that from happening. So that's a contradiction in what happens in the SAME event. And that's new because it's one of the main events of the story. On the imp side it was clear the final assault could not happen if they didn't stop the rep fleet. On the rep side it happens regardless AND the empire bombs civilians, which is a choice on the imp side.

 

So really, whereas the class stories had different events in different places, the larger events of the main story line of the conflict between the two sides is the same in the end. On Makeb there is a different story to follow depending on whether you're imp or rep but they do not contradict each other. They are part of the same larger story etc. Even in KotFE/ET they made every character the "commander" so that there was no contradiction in the story itself and the different choices you make do not affect the main outcomes.

 

It's not till recently that they let both sides have contradicting stories. That's new. The fact that on the imp side you succeed in destroying the Corellia factory and on the rep side you prevent it from happening means that these outcomes are a complete contradiction of each other.

 

Interesting .. very interesting. I also wondered about how this ended for the Empire side ?

 

At some point in time these stories will need to be reconciled. At some point in time.. the paths will need to cross over and reveal similarities while still seeing the continuity of a single fact or event from the different perspectives of the individual classes.

Budget and technology are two very different things.......So there was better tech available and budget to do it, but that doesn't meant the story writing itself was good

 

I meant the budget that was diverted to Anthem and other projects. Not how the budget was divided inside Swtor, or even inside the departments that were tasked with expansion.

 

You underestimate the impact of budget and time constraints. Budget impacts a lot of things, especially how many content writers you can have, and from what quality, and even whether you can involve prominent figures to help with the story or at least make sure it does not break canon

 

But what's more - it takes money to pay all those voice actors, and the actors who enact the motion capture scenes. Considerable money.

 

Which makes one overarching, fairly linear story easier or as easy as 5-6 differentiated stories with partly or noticeably different dialog choices, outcomes and other traits. On top of that, there's also the concern of planning too - choices users may make need to be maintainable into the future expansions, not only game code wise but also they must be workable within the game world. Without even saying that they must not risk punch big holes in the game world, its consistency or manufactured reality - leave aside SW canon or storytelling.

 

Anyone who partakes in software development and release cycles for software which must be maintained into the future would understand such problems of future maintainability - and software development happens without any concern for any story consistency, canon, or other similar literature stuff.

 

...

 

Our experiences differ. I very much liked kotfe/kotet, even if it was a bit off compared to what we know as Star Wars. I liked the length of the story as well, since im finding that once we dont have to do planetary stories to level chars anymore, the class story comes up way too short to be memorable. Kotfe/Kotet writing would easily compete with the blatantly careless and irresponsible script writing of recent Star Wars movies in my opinion, and if they pushed the story writing a bit further, they could as well make it a side-story for Star Wars and release it as a movie.

 

As i said, our experiences differ.

 

My only problems with kotfe/kotet have been that they strayed too far from general Star Wars look and feel. And i think maybe it was intentionally so since Disney was taking over Star Wars IP at that time and the future of the game may have been in question, and there could have been a chance for Bioware to keep the game going by pivoting it away from Star Wars in order to appease Disney's desires - so that it would not interfere with whatever they were going to do with the IP they took over from Lucas. Of course this is a theory.