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How did Revan and Malak’s ex-Republic “Sith” end up prejudiced against aliens?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
How did Revan and Malak’s ex-Republic “Sith” end up prejudiced against aliens?

DFenderOfMen's Avatar


DFenderOfMen
08.27.2019 , 01:54 PM | #1
Something that has always bugged me lore-wise about the original KoTOR, that maybe someone else can help explain. How did Revan’s “Sith” come back from the unknown regions with prejudice against aliens and believing in human superiority? They were Republic soldiers. Around the time of the Mandalorian Wars was there a common speciesism in the Republic? The troops that followed Revan into the unknown regions couldn’t have been influenced by Imperial society, or else word would have gotten back about them to the Republic about the Sith Empire, with defectors and intercepting transmissions and intelligence operations and so on. The secret of the Sith Empire in the unknown regions was only known by a select few.

Honestly, a lot doesn’t make sense about how Revan and Malak’s troops were corrupted, and turned against the Republic. The best case that could be given is the fear and respect of their leaders, with defectors being wiped out before returning with the “Sith” fleet to conquer the Republic. But this still doesn’t explain how they came back with an overt prejudice against aliens, unless the aliens that followed Revan and Malak to the unknown regions almost universally rebelled against becoming “Sith”.

Or am I misremembering KoTOR? I know the Tarisians were mostly speciesist, but if memory serves me properly, so were Revan and Malak’s “Sith”, to a certain extent... if memory serves me properly.

Or was it just the influence of old Imperial society, with people doing research and leading the “Sith” with the ideas of the old Sith, including the racism. I guess if you identity with an ancient group, and you do your research, that its ideas can be revived. But it still doesn’t really explain how former Republic soldiers would have received those particular ideas so much. You would expect them to adapt Sith ideas to their own already existing beliefs, like the general equality of sentient species and value for diversity.

Maybe the humans under Revan and Malak’s command were more receptive to the Sith ideas so that the humans fought the aliens who went with them to the unknown regions. But the Republic military from the time period doesn’t seem to have factions dividing species as much as I know of the lore, and it seems to integrate different species across its military. This would make the organizing of a unified alien opposition from within the Republic military under Revan and Malak’s command seem almost impossible.

Thoughts? Maybe I’m misremembering KoTOR, or maybe there’s something I’m missing.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
08.27.2019 , 02:08 PM | #2
I don't remember there being a lot of non-human prejudiced among Revan and Malak's forces. As I remember it there were a number of non-humans in Malak's forces. It was rampant on Taris, and there were some other examples of speciesism: such as the Ithorian freighter captainin KotOR 2 on Nar Shaddaa. Some could be attributed to the individual being speciesist.
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MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
08.27.2019 , 07:20 PM | #3
I don't remember much prejudice either. And in the Revanite arc on Dromund Kaas they specifically say Revan recruited aliens without prejudice.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
08.28.2019 , 06:34 AM | #4
I can't remember them being generally xenophobic against aliens... so I'd say it was probably more of an individual thing.
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Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.28.2019 , 10:37 AM | #5
Tarisians are very racist, but I don't recall if any of the KOTOR Sith Troopers were racist.

But I thought Revan found an existing Sith Empire out in the unknown regions of space in KOTOR2, so who knows if they were racist or not.
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ApollosNight's Avatar


ApollosNight
08.29.2019 , 08:44 AM | #6
With regards to exactly why Revan and Malak fell to the Dark Side, that was explained both in SWTOR and in the Revan novel. They went off into deep space in search of the 'Great Evil' that had pushed the Mandalorians into war; this caused them to find the Sith Empire. They plotted what they thought would be an assassination attempt on the Emperor, but instead they found themselves captured. The Emperor easily broke their minds and instantly turned them to the Dark Side. He sent them back to the Republic as a sort of preliminary strike team, both to weaken the Republic and to gain access to the Star Forge (which would allow him to invade the Republic far ahead of schedule). However, as Revan and Malak returned to the known galaxy, the control of the Emperor wained enough for them to follow their own, albeit dark and twisted, desires.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
09.01.2019 , 05:34 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ApollosNight View Post
With regards to exactly why Revan and Malak fell to the Dark Side, that was explained both in SWTOR and in the Revan novel. They went off into deep space in search of the 'Great Evil' that had pushed the Mandalorians into war; this caused them to find the Sith Empire. They plotted what they thought would be an assassination attempt on the Emperor, but instead they found themselves captured. The Emperor easily broke their minds and instantly turned them to the Dark Side. He sent them back to the Republic as a sort of preliminary strike team, both to weaken the Republic and to gain access to the Star Forge (which would allow him to invade the Republic far ahead of schedule). However, as Revan and Malak returned to the known galaxy, the control of the Emperor wained enough for them to follow their own, albeit dark and twisted, desires.
This explanation as cemented by the novel and by SWTOR has always bugged me.

Maybe I just inaccurately remember the lore in KOTOR 1 and 2, but I could have sworn the implication was originally a lot more generic. That Revan felt the need to be a brutal strategist to defeat the mandalorians and this slowly corrupted them as a result. Which, as I remember it, is driven home in the story of The Exile as well, with their choice to go to war against the council's wishes.

I always felt like the idea that the emperor corrupted them robs them of their agency as characters and undermines the lesson/complexity implicit in the idea of the moral quandaries of war, military strategy, and survival, and cheapens it into a mind control story.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.01.2019 , 07:48 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
This explanation as cemented by the novel and by SWTOR has always bugged me.

Maybe I just inaccurately remember the lore in KOTOR 1 and 2, but I could have sworn the implication was originally a lot more generic. That Revan felt the need to be a brutal strategist to defeat the mandalorians and this slowly corrupted them as a result. Which, as I remember it, is driven home in the story of The Exile as well, with their choice to go to war against the council's wishes.

I always felt like the idea that the emperor corrupted them robs them of their agency as characters and undermines the lesson/complexity implicit in the idea of the moral quandaries of war, military strategy, and survival, and cheapens it into a mind control story.
KOTOR I hints at the Star Forge corrupting him, a corrupting influence in the unknown regions and once you get to Lehon you find out the Star Forge is like a Dark Side feedback loop. It feeds off and nourishes it the Dark Side.Its Kreia's opinion in KOTOR II that Revan became a Dark Lord of the Sith out of his own will. That wasn't the case. She was correct about the war driving him further towards darkness but not about when and why he became Sith. And the Emperor corrupting them doesn't rob them of anything, as Revan is able to break free from the Emperor's control without any aid during the search for the Star Forge. Which is an amazing feat.
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Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
09.02.2019 , 12:02 PM | #9
I also thought 'The Emperor did it!' was stupid and contrived. Revan did it to herself. Yes, the star forge would have played a role as a feedback loop, but that eponymous book isn't canon to me, it's bad fanfic written by a guy who never played K2.

I have no idea why they became prejudiced - and clearly no one else in this thread does either. I guess the answer, if we take the 'The emperor did it!' route, is that the Emperor is DS which means bad, and xenophobia is bad, thus they become space-racists. Yes, there were aliens among the Sith, but the vast majority were human. We might also make a distinction between the Tarisian xenophobia and Sith occupying forces on Taris. They were both xenophobic, but OP's question remains valid: why would the Sith on Taris be xenophobic? Are they Tarisian or something?

IMO a more palatable explanation is that they weren't prejudiced under Revan. When we play K1, we're seeing the Sith as Malak has molded them, not Revan [which is how we went from Atton's description of force-sensitive death squads during Revan's tenure and ended up with the incompetent Darth Bandon during Malak's]. If we take as a given that Revan fell to the dark side as a result of being a master strategist fighting a war, then it's not 'DS' to be anti-alien, it's a poor use of resources.
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FlameYOL
09.03.2019 , 07:16 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardrossan View Post
IMO a more palatable explanation is that they weren't prejudiced under Revan. When we play K1, we're seeing the Sith as Malak has molded them, not Revan [which is how we went from Atton's description of force-sensitive death squads during Revan's tenure and ended up with the incompetent Darth Bandon during Malak's].
Yes, I think this would be the most logical option considering Revan himself never seemed to have an issue with aliens. And even though the Revanite's sources of information is somewhat dubious they do mention how Revan wanted to use everyone.
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