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The Empire are the good guys?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Empire are the good guys?

irrevelant's Avatar


irrevelant
01.31.2019 , 03:11 AM | #11
When i play a game i often imagine myself into other NPCs' situation, or would i like to live in there if i born into X position.

Now thing is, that the Republic is quite free. Officially it doesn't matter where you born you can achieve great things, or live a probably poor, but peaceful life. As force-sensitive you get dragged into the jedi order at a very young age, and while your life gona be strange i couldn't call it exceptionally bad. Their soldiers are allowed to fail, and retreat, and the worst thing they get is being fired, or some boring, and bad assigment.

Zakuul was way too dependent on droids, and now that things ***ed up they gona have a hard time readjusting. But eventually they get back on the good old paradise on track, and with that kind of living it doesn't really matter who, or what rules. Also there is no slavery there (at least not that much as in the Empire), and it seemed that there is only top royalty, and the rest. No "chain of command" nobility. The survival of their soldiers in case of failure is up to the leader's mood though. But usually you got at least 50% chance to survive.

In the empire there is a birthright chain of command. If you aren't lucky and born as a non-force sensitive slave, then you are gona have some hell of a life. And majority of the empire are like that. If you are force sensitive, then you get to Korriban where you have a good chance to die during trials. And even if you survive, then Siths kill each other all the time. Just play the Sith Inquisitor's story and you see just how lucky you must be to stand a chance. Last but not least their army. In the Empire there is no such thing as "retreat", or "mission fail". Failure means execution.

So no. The Empire is certanily not "good guys". If you randomly born into the Empire, then great chance, that you gona have a miserable, and short life.

DjMeta's Avatar


DjMeta
01.31.2019 , 06:23 AM | #12
The key difference is that, while the Empire may have slaves, conform to the whims of the Sith, and are super racist, they don't try and hide any of it. They're very transparent about how they want citizens to behave, and the actual Imperial Government is pretty decent to the citizens. Most of the NPCs will comment on how the Sith are pretty annoying when they interfere, but it's heavily implied that the non-Sith running the Empire are decent, if not nice, to the population (Major Bessiker and Talos Drellik come to mind here).

The Jedi, on the other hand, proclaim that they're the good guys, representing freedom and democracy, yet getting anything done requires either months/years of negotiation (if you want to do things by the book), Ignore the Senate entirely (In the case of the Military), or resort to conspiring with gangs/underworlders (If you're a civilian). For a good example, the first Senator you meet turns out to be corrupt, and only because she can't do anything through proper channels. While she is trying to do the right thing, the fact that she has to break the law to do it means there's a fundamental issue with the Republic.

To me, while the Empire certainly can't be called the good guys, operate on a much better governmental system compared to the Republic. If the Sith didn't try and kill each other so often, then they would have crushed the Republic long ago.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
01.31.2019 , 06:40 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by JJKerryee View Post
There is NO doubt whatsoever that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic the good guys.
I'd be tempted to say that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic are the other bad guys. The difference is that the Republic wants to hide it, and the Empire doesn't care.
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> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

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grania
01.31.2019 , 08:39 AM | #14
I don't understand the question, I play empire and they are the bad guys and my characters are bad guys. Unless I'm playing light side imps, which is fun and all but I don't consider them the true versions.

Right now I'm very confused because I'm playing a dark inquisitor and Ashara is pulling a light Jaesa on me - she seems to think I'm a good guy and that I want to reform the empire and I have no idea what she's talking about. It's especially irritating because often these conversations don't give me much option to disagree with her.

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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
01.31.2019 , 09:54 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by grania View Post
Right now I'm very confused because I'm playing a dark inquisitor and Ashara is pulling a light Jaesa on me - she seems to think I'm a good guy and that I want to reform the empire and I have no idea what she's talking about. It's especially irritating because often these conversations don't give me much option to disagree with her.
Yeah, Ashara is annoying like that. It's an interesting story for an LS Inq, but on a DS Inquisitor, it makes less than no sense that the story progresses as it does. (I first did the Inq story on a full-whack out-and-out black-hearted goggly-eyed maniac(1) of an Assassinette(2), and yes, the Ashara story didn't fit with her *at*all*.)

It makes me think that the full extent of Ashara's narrative evolution is another of those things that Kryptonomic has talked about, that got cut or mangled or lost in the squeeze. It would have been fascinating to be able to compare LSA and DSA in the way that we can compare LSJ and DSJ.

(1) To the extent that she is the only one of my characters who has done the Lord Wossname mission near the entrance to the Colossus on DK, where he asks you to poison the slaves' water supply with only just barely enough poison, so they die slowly and in maximum pain.

(2) Yes, of course she sliced and diced Bessiker's son. What did you think? (At least she was human, so she didn't have to hear him complain about being rescued by alien filth.)
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To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

Limariko's Avatar


Limariko
01.31.2019 , 01:52 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'd be tempted to say that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic are the other bad guys. The difference is that the Republic wants to hide it, and the Empire doesn't care.
After playing through all the classes, this has pretty much become my perspective. Both sides are awful in different ways. Even looking at the movies and going from the perspective of seeing things from the Rebels' side, it still boils down to both factions are a mess especially when you look at how things panned out in the Legacy EU. To each faction, they're going to see themselves as the 'good' one with the opposition being 'bad'.
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VelvetSanity
01.31.2019 , 04:47 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
(2) Yes, of course she sliced and diced Bessiker's son. What did you think? (At least she was human, so she didn't have to hear him complain about being rescued by alien filth.)
His complaints about being rescued by alien filth are *why* my SI made julienne fries of him. Then she killed Bessiker when he cried about it, both for his crying and his threats to withhold the collicoid serum from her.
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Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
02.01.2019 , 08:45 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by irrevelant View Post
In the empire there is a birthright chain of command. If you aren't lucky and born as a non-force sensitive slave, then you are gona have some hell of a life. And majority of the empire are like that. If you are force sensitive, then you get to Korriban where you have a good chance to die during trials. And even if you survive, then Siths kill each other all the time. Just play the Sith Inquisitor's story and you see just how lucky you must be to stand a chance. Last but not least their army. In the Empire there is no such thing as "retreat", or "mission fail". Failure means execution.

So no. The Empire is certanily not "good guys". If you randomly born into the Empire, then great chance, that you gona have a miserable, and short life.
What about Bounty Hunters?

So here we have guys who often have republic accents, who don't have to be Mandalorians to be accredited professionals in the Empire, and who are, in many cases, able to assume command level positions temporarily in order to achieve x result.

LS Smugglers are often roleplayed as Republic patriots who don't want to go through the bureaucracy of serving in the military to serve their government. I did the same thing with a DS bounty hunter who wants to serve the Empire but wants the freedom to pick assignments and go where he's needed. It works surprisingly well. It would be better if you could choose to have an imperial accent, but there's probably lots of Republic planets that got absorbed into the Empire during the first war, and newly made imperial citizens who have real patriotism to the Empire.

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Zehal
02.01.2019 , 11:31 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by irrevelant View Post
Zakuul was way too dependent on droids, and now that things ***ed up they gona have a hard time readjusting. But eventually they get back on the good old paradise on track, and with that kind of living it doesn't really matter who, or what rules. Also there is no slavery there (at least not that much as in the Empire), and it seemed that there is only top royalty, and the rest. No "chain of command" nobility. The survival of their soldiers in case of failure is up to the leader's mood though. But usually you got at least 50% chance to survive.
Hmmm, I wish Zakuul would be a starting zone so we can play and see how it would be living there... I play all the stories of the IMPS (BAD) and PUPS (GOOD) I know many take inspiration from the SW Canon characters, Like Sidius (Inquisitor), Vader (Wrath), Jedi Knight (Luke), Smuggler (Solo), Bounty Hunter (Boba), Consular (Um...Yoda? Not sure about this one) ANYWAY point is we dont have a Princess LEA story type raise in Royalty and later become the backbone of the Resistance...on less the "Outlander and his Alliance Story" counts as that...

It be good to see such a NEUTRAL perceptive before the chapters of the Outlander... Being adopted into Royalty like Lea and in secret built the resistance that help built into the events of the KOTET... Taken a bit of inspiration from LEA side of the story in canon...and spice it a bit with SWTOR Legends lore!

Returning to the original post...

I think like many have already stated the Sith Empire don't hide their ugly side and its a lore fact that if they where more united they crush the republic long ago...but they ARE the BAD GUYS.

The Republic are technically good as its supposedly have the senate that voice its people, but as such, there is much corruption, greed and personal/political agendas intertwine in the systems that will make positive changes take forever to implement. This is how Palatine was able to turn the Republic into an Empire through this type of government system...

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FlameYOL
02.01.2019 , 01:31 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'd be tempted to say that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic are the other bad guys. The difference is that the Republic wants to hide it, and the Empire doesn't care.
I think this is one of the best ways to define things, the Republic certainly isn't flawless but things like Belsavis shows they have dirt and are more than willing to be dirt about it and attempt to hide it. The Empire is open about it.
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