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Transgender Representation in Swtor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Transgender Representation in Swtor

Ellisande's Avatar


Ellisande
09.13.2019 , 07:14 AM | #61
One: we don't need to represent all people. Everytime you forcefully represent one person in a role then you are preventing every other person from being represented in that role. For example if there is a protagonist who is trans then everyone who isn't trans is no longer capable of considering themselves represented by that trans protagonist because they aren't trans.

Two: if the character is a good representation of a transperson then you shouldn't even know they are trans. They should want to be considered the gender they are trying to be and shouldn't want to be known as a transperson instead.

To quote the god satellite from Futurama: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Three: Krem is offensive to everyone with a brain but not because Krem is trans but because Krem was an offensive violation of Qunari lore and philosophy. The Qunari society is essentially a fictionally realized version of the imaginary civilization discussed by Socrates in The Republic. Each person is born to fill a role and they are born with a BODY AND MIND suited to filling that role. All members of the Qunari are content to fill the role to which they were born to fill: To quote Sten on Qunari philosophy and society when he was comparing Ferelden to his homeland: "[n]o one has a place here. Your farmers wish to be merchants. The merchants dream of being nobles, and the nobles become warriors. No one is content to be who they are." If you play as a female character then Sten is surprised you are allowed to fight and are capable of fighting. From Sten's point of view every person born with a uterus has always been content and wanted to fulfill a woman's role (I do not remember the precise roles women held in Qunari society because it has been over a decade since I played DA:O). It is only towards the end of the game that Sten is ready to acknowledge that he might have been wrong for thinking you are unsuitable to fight on the front lines because you're a woman. Having Krem be a woman who wants to be regarded as a man contradicts the established lore from Dragon Age: Origins.

I mean Krem wasn't the worst thing about DA:I but it is an example of the ridiculous amount of inconsistency between DA:I and the two prior games.
Quote: Originally Posted by cjohnk View Post
You can't add completely arbitrary assumptions on to someone's statement. When a statement is made, take it for what it is not for what it could be if you tack on 7 more words of your own choosing.

Deshiel's Avatar


Deshiel
09.14.2019 , 04:30 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
My main concern here is doing it well, when representing any given minority you need to treat a character like that with respect but at the same time be careful not to have that character's personality be only his identity, etc. Otherwise you risk making a caricature which does not serve the purpose of representation in my opinion. That being said I think with characters like Krem from DAI Bioware certainly learned how to represent transgenders better than they did in the past so I wouldn't rule it out.



There had been a few gay characters within the novels during the Lucas era, plus Lucas isn't in charge anymore and while I do think we should respect the man's vision I don't see how adding LGBT characters to Star Wars would be a violation of that. post vanilla SWTOR is still very Star Wars and it has LGBT characters.
The thing with star wars is that the in universe solution was that there are no sexuality identificators there, everyone went with whoever they wanted to, that was not however fully explored because it used to be controversial af. It can be done now, but not then,future readers should tale that into consideration

Gorra-Syn's Avatar


Gorra-Syn
09.29.2019 , 09:23 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by gintheripper View Post
Hi I'd like to start off by saying thanks to the swtor staff and community for their great representation of lgbt characters and choices however speaking as a trans person I am still holding out hoping for the inclusion of a character even a non romanceable one that more directly represents myself and other individuals like me I know it is a bit of a longshot but still I remain forever in hope as I am a huge star war fan and especially a fan of swtor please share your two cents
Exactly what is it you want? They are making NPC's romance-able now by male AND female characters, available hair colors run the spectrum, and anyone can wear a dress. Seriously?!?....what are you asking them to do??
PROUD MEMBER OF THE "since 77" CLUB

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
09.29.2019 , 10:40 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Ellisande View Post
Three: Krem is offensive to everyone with a brain but not because Krem is trans but because Krem was an offensive violation of Qunari lore and philosophy. The Qunari society is essentially a fictionally realized version of the imaginary civilization discussed by Socrates in The Republic. Each person is born to fill a role and they are born with a BODY AND MIND suited to filling that role. All members of the Qunari are content to fill the role to which they were born to fill: To quote Sten on Qunari philosophy and society when he was comparing Ferelden to his homeland: "[n]o one has a place here. Your farmers wish to be merchants. The merchants dream of being nobles, and the nobles become warriors. No one is content to be who they are." If you play as a female character then Sten is surprised you are allowed to fight and are capable of fighting. From Sten's point of view every person born with a uterus has always been content and wanted to fulfill a woman's role (I do not remember the precise roles women held in Qunari society because it has been over a decade since I played DA:O). It is only towards the end of the game that Sten is ready to acknowledge that he might have been wrong for thinking you are unsuitable to fight on the front lines because you're a woman. Having Krem be a woman who wants to be regarded as a man contradicts the established lore from Dragon Age: Origins.

I mean Krem wasn't the worst thing about DA:I but it is an example of the ridiculous amount of inconsistency between DA:I and the two prior games.
Krem is not Qunari. Krem is human born in the Tevinter Imperium. Krem joined Iron Bull's mercenary company. Iron Bull is Qunari. Iron Bull explained the concept of Aqun-Athlok to Krem. Aqun-Athlok means "born as one gender but living like another." Did you even play DA:I? I know I didn't but it was easy enough to find out you're wrong by just reading the DA wiki. Also, Iron Bull, or Hissrad, was born to be a warrior but was moved to the Ben-Hassrath because his Tama believed it better suited him. Not everyone sticks with the role they are "born" to. Also also, DA has absolutely nothing to do with SW unless the world of DA is somewhere in the Unknown Regions.
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Hawkebatt's Avatar


Hawkebatt
09.29.2019 , 11:41 PM | #65
Our modern bi system is not a part of the Star Wars system as they deal with over 5 million different species who represent all sorts of different biologic systems, lifestyles, and choices.

My view of the technology level at times in the Star Wars galaxy waxes and wains depending not just when in the time line you are but where in the galaxy.

How would any child know they are transgendered if from birth they have had proper medical treatment that could have identified this at a very young age and been medically corrected with a procedure they got from the Gree or from the Clawdites to genetically modify you to be female or male. The psychological testing and the medical testing would find the signs needed to make the change would be no problem with a universe that can make cyborgs or androids that look perfectly human, a Human replica droid named Guri, later purchased by Prince Xizor. Not even a scanner could tell she was not a meatbag.

The only thing that would define a trans gender would be how they speak, but even then their voice box could be genetically modified to be female sounding without active effort or training. Everything about being trans and fitting in, with passing would be perfect so only if you are told they were male or female or in-between is the only way you would be able to know other than they are presented.

Other than that making all outfits being able to be worn by both sexes. Making all options in character design universal to all classes and sexes could someone show a feminine male or a masculine female (other than body type 3 females who dance like the guys). To allowing a male toon to dance like a female or a female like a male. There is very little in the way of making such a distinction without making it the sole reason for such an NPC in the game.

Final point. In a world in a galaxy engulfed in war and conflict on nearly all planets much of the concerns of a peaceful society go away when the question of where your next meal is coming from is all you think about. Your hero toon may have the best food available, but is dealing with a galaxy that is fighting over every bit of resources there is to have.

A galaxy where Jedi and Sith, Light and Dark, Good and Evil are the defining conflict and issues of the time. GID is a medically treated issue it is like having a sixth toe that makes it a non issue to anyone in the Star Wars Galaxy. Twenty five thousand years separate them from us.

Transgender are represented you just cant see it as they all pass perfectly. Or how many guys run around as female toons or the few girls who run around as male toons, and no one says a thing?

[Big Closet, FictionMania]
Emotion, yet Peace. Ignorance, yet Knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity.

Chaos, Yet Harmony. Death, yet the Force. Contemplation, yet Duty.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
09.29.2019 , 11:44 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
And the original canon Hutts were hermaphrodites usually identifying as one gender, some of them being attracted to humanoids of the "opposite" sex

As for the OP, IMO the problem is in representation here, sexual orientation is one thing, if there are gay/bi NPCs that aren't just player-sexual, I can't remember them, so they're pretty well done, because how would you know if they aren't having a parade celebrating stereotypes?

How would you represent gender, though? Medicine should be advanced enough so reassignment surgery should be perfect and only a matter of being able to afford it, so we are really only talking about those embracing their non-binarity, which again isn't really something you would know outside of a relation.

That guy dating a tentacle-headed alien should be beyond caring about the naughty bits of their androgynous looking neighbor. Same for the "humanity first" dork. you're human, that means you're his friend in this galaxy of freaks. There are no gender-roles to challenge either, nobody raises an eyebrow at a burly female in combat armor. Bearded guy(?) wearing a ball gown? Meet my mate the giant slug and her husband the green bunny rabbit.


In the end it depends on whether you want to see western society's transgender issues mirrored in the game universe, or whether you want to see them demonstrated as non-issues, because diversity is the golden theme here.
This point markets the answer well and politely. In an advanced age of medicine, "transgender" would be a thing of the past, you could be any gender you wanted, or gender less. Since relationships exist in swtor galaxy between varied species, you can even argue star wars is in fact more progressive than modern day earth is even capable of, imagine trying to marry your dog? You can do that in star wars galaxy.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.30.2019 , 02:14 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Ricul View Post
Why are people so obsessed with sex?
It feels good and makes babies.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
09.30.2019 , 09:52 PM | #68
I'm not sure what's being asked for here. A male looking character with female voice or vice versa? Characters who identify your character as transgender rather than the sex they appear as? (they barely even acknowledge your species). As someone who finds it hard to identify with my own sex I don't understand this request why wouldn't you want to just play a character of the sex you wish you were?