Greetings all,

The goal is to have a quick reference for ideal stats and sets for Guardian/Jugg tanks.

So I have been a bunch of places trying to figure some things out, and have been less than successful....

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=970879

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=964550

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=971050

https://www.rambol.net/home/2018/2/6/pvp-tanking-for-dummies-by-hottie-57

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tTZEODvA4-N_wLXlizG654Ii1z9gI88HavBk1WbTsk0/edit#gid=350211635

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

Is there anything more current for 6.0 I am missing?

I also know some of the theory crafting and BIS calculations down to enhancements can be daunting. As such I wanted to try and solicit input from you all for ideal Guard/Jugg tanking stats, sets, and amplifiers. I want end game geared out full Armor, Mods, enhancements and augments. Obviously will not be complete consensus but at least let's try and get as much factual info together and I will update the thread based on changes to the game or new insight.

So PVE:

Set: x4 from Flawless Riposte, and x2 from Preserver (6x Lord of Pain is the default until you get these)

Tactical: Leviathan's Hide

Stim: Fortitude

Endurance: 17,925

Mastery: 13,204

Power: 2,016

Critical: 0

Alacrity: 0

Accuracy 0

Defense:5,374

Absorb: 3,187

Shield: 3,204

For PvP things get more complicated. as we are no longer to keep the armorings for set bonuses what now is ideal? Are we dumping almost all defense and gearing endurance/mastery? What is ideal?

and PvP:

Set: Descent of the Fearless x6 and 1 x Amplified gear

Tactical: Grit Teeth

Stim: Versitile

Endurance:16,638

Mastery: 13,590

Power: 9,483

Critical: 3,654

Alacrity: 1,293

Accuracy 0

Defense: 0

Absorb: 0

Shield: 0

This is PvE-specific:

Ear/Implants - Sund Tech

Enhancements - Bastion/Bulwark R80

Mods - Lethal R80 B (yes, they learned nothing from last gear cycle so DPS mods are still BiS on Tanks...)

Tactical - Embrace the Pain

Set Bonuses - x4 from Flawless Riposte, and I prefer x2 from Preserver for the +2% Shield Chance as it is the stat that Juggernauts have the least amount of.

Hey Jethsidi thanks for the input!!

I normally PvP so i totally understand dps mods for PvP, but you are saying for PVE as well?

Also from what i read on Embrace the Pain i completely agree. Has this schematic become available anywhere yet? I keep checking Kai and no luck...

Hey Jethsidi thanks for the input!!

 

I normally PvP so i totally understand dps mods for PvP, but you are saying for PVE as well?

 

Also from what i read on Embrace the Pain i completely agree. Has this schematic become available anywhere yet? I keep checking Kai and no luck...

Lethal B R80's are BiS on Tanks in PvE as well.

Embrace the Pain still hasn't been seen but possibly is going to be around after the patch? Without it, Leviathan's Hide (Damage Reduction with Crushing Blow) isn't a bad option.

Anything else, hit me on Discord: Sevrahn#4799

For PvE tacticals I've been going with mostly hords makashi strike, with leviathans hide for aoe situations. I will probably continue to do so for PVE even after embrace the pain is released because I dont find myself wanting FD more often in most PVE.

That said I am definitely picking up embrace the pain as soon as it is avaliable, for PvP and maybe PvE use on occasion/boss.

For PvE tacticals I've been going with mostly hords makashi strike, with leviathans hide for aoe situations. I will probably continue to do so for PVE even after embrace the pain is released because I dont find myself wanting FD more often in most PVE.

 

That said I am definitely picking up embrace the pain as soon as it is avaliable, for PvP and maybe PvE use on occasion/boss.

Leviathan's > Makashi unless I'm missing something. The replacement gives you +2% additional reduction, where Leviathan's minimum is +2.5%.

Leviathan's > Makashi unless I'm missing something. The replacement gives you +2% additional reduction, where Leviathan's minimum is +2.5%.

The description said 5% to the 2.5%, unless they changed it?

Lethal B R80's are BiS on Tanks in PvE as well.

...

in all pve content or only in 75? cause in 70 some stats are capped

have to add i only do mm fp´s at the moment, no ops, later i will do mostly pvp after all my toons have their sets and therefore i will complete rearrange the tankequip

so i thought i go for more mastery on the lethal mods (to get a bit more crit) cause endurance is capped?

in all pve content or only in 75? cause in 70 some stats are capped

have to add i only do mm fp´s at the moment, no ops, later i will do mostly pvp after all my toons have their sets and therefore i will complete rearrange the tankequip

so i thought i go for more mastery on the lethal mods (to get a bit more crit) cause endurance is capped?

Only on lvl75. When doing any scaled content, you will be at the Power cap even with full Defense mods.

The description said 5% to the 2.5%, unless they changed it?

It consumes the +3% from Aegis and gives you +5%, so -3+5=2.

However, someone pointed out you can reapply Aegis, so I did all the math on that here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=973349

 

Mods - Lethal R80 B (yes, they learned nothing from last gear cycle so DPS mods are still BiS on Tanks...)

 

Hi,

sorry to say, but they're not; though the DR hits, the difference in mitigation is still very visible when using lethal mods. Admittedly the usage of DCDs matters more, but the higher defense stat still shows very much regarding dtps in fights where you can defend a lot of attacks (DXUN 3rd boss, Draxus e.g.).

best Braggalo

Hi,

 

sorry to say, but they're not; though the DR hits, the difference in mitigation is still very visible when using lethal mods. Admittedly the usage of DCDs matters more, but the higher defense stat still shows very much regarding dtps in fights where you can defend a lot of attacks (DXUN 3rd boss, Draxus e.g.).

best Braggalo

Considering the amount of healing throughput you're getting, the difference between 30% and 35% Defense is negligible. Especially considering, as you said, in the high DTPS moments you're using DCD's anyway.

another question regarding scaled content:

so endurance, power and mastery are capped, power even seemes to be set on a fixed value, on fleet i have less power than the cap but in mm fp i´m at the cap

that means from mods i can only get defense increase (i know it has nearly no use above 6000)

and from enhancements i can only get absorp/shield increase

so best would be to take high defense mods and

Immunity/Sturdiness Superior Enhancement 80R-1 with 451 shield/absorp?

question is if i still reach the caps for endurance (think yes) and mastery with this equip

IF i reach softcaps for shield/absorp (possible?) i could then take crit

the only 75 content i do is the meridian fp (only as possible part of the random mm fp´s) and i think once u know and use the mechanics it´s easier than for instance umbara endboss - so meridian fp should also be doable with gear optimized as described above

Endurance, mastery and power are set to certain number based on your veteran edge stacks and content (your stats are set higher in MM ops than in SM ops for example).

You can test it when you put a full tank gear on a dps, you will have 0 power in unscaled content. But if you enter lvl 70 ops or fp, you will have 3.5-3.8k power out of nowhere - well actually from the Veteran edge buff.

Knowing this, there is no need to worry about those 3 stats - even if you manage somehow to have less endurance and/or mastery and/or power, the Veteran edge will give them to you.

For scaled content you are right that BiS are the mods and enhancements that give most of the unscaled stats - defense and tertiary ones. So for mods always go for the 306 ones with maximum defense - even on dps or healer - because power is meaningless, you get it from Veteran edge for free. For enhancement go for the 306 ones with 451 to tertiary stat. Left side you want relics that do not give mastery/power when procced, for tanks you can keep either the ones with high absorb/shield, or if you like Shrouded crusader. For armoring/hilt, use any 306 one that has good amplifier, as it does not matter what ratio on mastery/endurance there is, Veteran edge will take care about it. You can just reroll any 306 hilt and armoring a few times when it is still cheap to see if you get gold amplifier you need or not. For crystals, you want crit - because power and endurance are meaningless. For augments, you still might want the purple grade 11 as they give most of the tertiary stats, but if you cannot afford them, use purple grade 10 - and again only those that give defense, absorb or shield, as endurance, power and mastery are not gained from them.

My tank that runs such a set for lvl 70 content (with grade 10 purple augments and not fully finished with best mods and 451 enhancements) has about 3700 shield, 3630 absorb and 7300 defense (and 82 crit from crystals). When he enters ops or fp, he gains over 2k power from buff and has absolutely same health, power and mastery as a tank that has optimized set for lvl 75 content (lethal mods, 431 enhancements etc.), but has more defense and tertiary stats than the lvl 75 optimized tank. Maybe it is not much visible in dtps as it gives only a few percents or fractions of percents, but it is still better.

Of course, you do not want to use such set in Dxun or in PvP, but it is ok in MM Meridian FP - there you will die when you fail to do mechanics, not to your stats. When mechanics are done correctly it is absolutely ok to wear this gear.

Also a side note, the 2% buffs to mastery, power or endurance from 2pc set actually work in scaled content, so even though your endurance is set by Veteran's Edge, you will still gain 2% on top of that, which is nice.

For me, since I heal a lot, I made myself 2 sets for a healer, one for unscaled and other for scaled content, and as I gain more duplicate pieces of sets I am doing same for dpses. For tank I actually only have the scaled one, as I am not doing Dxun on him.

thanks escpecially for this

...

For armoring/hilt, use any 306 one that has good amplifier, as it does not matter what ratio on mastery/endurance ...

For crystals, you want crit - because power and endurance are meaningless.

...

Also a side note, the 2% buffs to mastery, power or endurance from 2pc set actually work in scaled content, so even though your endurance is set by Veteran's Edge, you will still gain 2% on top of that, which is nice.

...

...Left side you want relics that do not give mastery/power when procced

...

for scaled content:

thats true for dps too?

so maybe one critproc relic and one with the absorpbubble?

and course of all dps-mod-stats are capped is it meaningless which mods i use for dps in scaled content!!???

so maybe one critproc relic and one with the absorpbubble?

For DPS in scaled content you run Crit proc (Devastating Vengeance) and Alacrity clickable boost (Primeval Fatesealer) relics.

and course of all dps-mod-stats are capped is it meaningless which mods i use for dps in scaled content!!???

You still use Lethals but which variation does not matter.

For DPS in scaled content you run Crit proc (Devastating Vengeance) and Alacrity clickable boost (Primeval Fatesealer) relics.

 

You still use Lethals but which variation does not matter.

For dps exactly those two, for healer where I have 1.3 GCD I use Ephemereal Mending instead of alacrity boost, as the boost would not put me to 1.2 GCD.

On my heal and dps in scaled content I use defense mods, because all the power is gained from Veterans Edge buff. It does not do much, like 20% chance to defend instead of 5% on my vengeance jugg, it will not turn you to tank, but it can help if you grab aggro of adds (with infinite slam rotation) to defend against their white attacks. On bosses the damage you will get as dps or heal is almost never defendable anyway. But I feel like proper DwT with 3200 defense On healer it is probably the least useful, but having and playing 4 juggs and 2 sins just gives so many defense mods that I had no trouble with getting them, so I put them to the armor.

Thing is, Veterans Edge does NOT scale or cap your mastery/power/endurance stats, it sets them to some number, so even if you are low or zero on power you will still end up with absolutely same numbers as everyone else with same Veteran Edge stacks. You do not need to have those 3.5-3.8k power. Actually the less power you have, the more you gain for free from the Veteran Edge buff. It is a bit different than what is in other games, but once you understand how it works, you can min max for scaled content and end up with very different setup than for unscaled.

Just updated the front page... went to these sites for help...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9805679

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=970879&page=2

https://sites.google.com/view/merlyn-swtor/republic/jedi-knight/guardian/defense-guardian?authuser=0

Here is a recap...

PVE:

Set: x4 from Flawless Riposte, and x2 from Preserver (6x Lord of Pain is the default until you get these)

Tactical: Leviathan's Hide

Stim: Fortitude

Endurance: 17,925

Mastery: 13,204

Power: 2,016

Critical: 0

Alacrity: 0

Accuracy 0

Defense:5,374

Absorb: 3,187

Shield: 3,204

For PvP things get more complicated. as we are no longer to keep the armorings for set bonuses what now is ideal? Are we dumping almost all defense and gearing endurance/mastery? What is ideal?

and PvP:

Set: Descent of the Fearless x6 and 1 x Amplified gear

Tactical: Grit Teeth

Stim: Versitile

Endurance:16,638

Mastery: 13,590

Power: 9,483

Critical: 3,654

Alacrity: 1,293

Accuracy 0

Defense: 0

Absorb: 0

Shield: 0

What are your thoughts?

My PVE build (and i'm feeling good with it)

12581 Mastery

17796 Endurance

4581 Power

3935 defense

3403 absorb

3677 shield

6x Lord of Pain +1 Amplifier+ Fortitude stim

2 x 2.20 Periodic resilience | 5 x 1.20 Reinforced armor | 1 x 2.50 Armor penetration | 1 x 0.50 Fortuitous redoubt

Hord's Makashi strike/Grit Teeth depends on situation

This is PvE-specific:

 

... x2 from Preserver for the +2% Shield Chance as it is the stat that Juggernauts have the least amount of.

Mistake: "Presever" gives you 2% of Shield RATING not CHANCE

My PVE build (and i'm feeling good with it)

 

12581 Mastery

17796 Endurance

4581 Power

3935 defense

3403 absorb

3677 shield

 

6x Lord of Pain +1 Amplifier+ Fortitude stim

2 x 2.20 Periodic resilience | 5 x 1.20 Reinforced armor | 1 x 2.50 Armor penetration | 1 x 0.50 Fortuitous redoubt

Hord's Makashi strike/Grit Teeth depends on situation

Thanks for the reply!!

Interesting... couple of questions...

I heard power is Guard/Jugg specific and really helps us out. Did you know this and gear towards power accordingly? If not why the high power?

For the tactical i have heard Levithan's strike is far superior. Why do you not see it that way?

Thanks again for the info!!

Сonsider the single boss situation:

Hord's Makashi Strike: Riposte consumed Warding Strike damage reduction and grants Retalitating Defense, increasing damage reduction by 5% for 20 seconds

Since Warding Strike's cd is 12 sec and Riposte's cd is 6 sec Retalitating Defense provide 5% plain and instant DR

Leviathan's Hide: Guardian Slash generated stacks of Crushing Defence for every enemy it hits, granting 2.5% increased damage reduction per stack for 10 seconds. Stacks up 8 times.

Since Guardian Slash's cd is [same] 12 sec we get (on only one stack) 3% from Warding Strike + 2.5% from Guardian Slash = 5.5% total for 10 sec then 2 sec "gap" – until next GS – filled with only 3% from WS

Summary: I see no practical difference in total result.

In the dual boss situation we'll get 3% +2.5*2=5% totally 8% for 10 sec then same 3% gap from Leviathan's and it's obviously better but 1) how many such ingame encounters we have? 2) you must be absolutely sure that Guardian Slash hitted them both.

Case with "gang of trash mobs" I'm deliberately not considering you must understand why

And some words about bonus set: I don't confirm so called "4x Lord of Pain's bug" because it working for me, 45 sec cd for Challenging Call with 3 pieces and 40 sec cd with 4 – absolutely repetitive result. So or I'm doing something wrong or there is another breeder of bug.

Thus I see no reason to replace "Lord of Pain" with something another due to great 6x piece bonus for damage reduction and properly working 4x bonus

About high power:

IMHO main tank's problem in 6.x is keeping aggro especially when there is a lot DDs with insane DOT tacticals, so [as current variant] i prefer stay in 1/4 defense chance (1/3 is very problematic due to very unlinear and asymptotic behaviour defense function curve) and get extra threat generation from reinforced Saber Reflect. Sadly we can't have both due to total budget

I've had debates regarding hords vs leviathan before.

In a nutshell leviathans is much simpler to use, and the loss is barely noticeable

I've had debates regarding hords vs leviathan before.

Sorry, Kendra, missed it