EDIT (13/4/2015 18:40 GMT); With the change in 3.1.2, I went back and updated my calculations. On suspicion that we're still at a point where Alacrity Augments can be a dps increase, I altered my code to allow for this possibility. I also added a section that discusses the set bonuses. Thus, the numbers in this post are now about as accurate as I can see them getting at the time of this edit. As further changes happen to the class, I will attempt to keep the post up to date.

 

EDIT (30/12/2014 22:27 GMT); I had a very serious mistake in my Hatred calculations, and had accidentally given Death Field its old 30% Surge boost, which it no longer has. This devalued Critical Rating enough that the "optimal" level of it changed by a small amount, which this post now shows.

 

(here's a link to a thread with a healthy discussion about many of the assumptions going into this analysis as well as the source code to my final analysis, for examination)

 

So, after a few days of messing up a bunch, I think I've finally got my code to where I'm comfortable with it. The given dps values are somewhat lower (~300 dps) than what I know is possible in the very same gear, however, I also know that people play better than the time averaged ability usage. For example, delaying Assassinate in Hatred's pre-execution phase to use it during a double relic proc, and similarly with Maul in Deception.

 

With that said, here are my results for maximum dps, and how to gear at each level to get them (note: pieces refers to either enhancements, earpieces, or implants, as all have the same tertiary values):

 

Deception

Gear Level: 192

• Willpower: 3866
  
• Power: 1655
  
• Critical Rating: 230
  
• Surge Rating: 222
  
• Alacrity Rating: 430
  
• Accuracy Rating: 770
  

8 Willpower Augments, 4 Alacrity Augments, 2 Accuracy Augments, 1 Critical mod, 2 Critical enhancements (alternately, 1 critical enhancement, 1 critical earpiece/implant), 6 Accuracy Pieces, 2 Surge Pieces, 2 Alacrity Pieces, everything else into Power. Advanced Anodyne Resolve Stim included.

 

Gear Level: 198

• Willpower: 4094
  
• Power: 1796
  
• Critical Rating: 261
  
• Surge Rating: 240
  
• Alacrity Rating: 500
  
• Accuracy Rating: 772
  

8 Willpower Augments, 5 Alacrity Augments, 1 Accuracy Augment, 2 Critical mods, 1 Critical enhancement (alternately, 1 critical mod and 1 critical earpiece/implant), 6 Accuracy Pieces, 2 Surge Pieces, 2 Alacrity Pieces, everything else into Power. Advanced Anodyne Resolve Stim included.

 

Hatred

Gear Level: 192

• Willpower: 3866
  
• Power: 1803
  
• Critical Rating: 82
  
• Surge Rating: 222
  
• Alacrity Rating: 430
  
• Accuracy Rating: 770
  

8 Willpower Augments, 4 Alacrity Augments, 2 Accuracy Augments, 1 Critical mod, 6 Accuracy Pieces, 2 Surge Pieces, 2 Alacrity Pieces, everything else into Power. Advanced Anodyne Resolve Stim included.

 

Gear Level: 198

• Willpower: 4094
  
• Power: 1886
  
• Critical Rating: 171
  
• Surge Rating: 240
  
• Alacrity Rating: 500
  
• Accuracy Rating: 772
  

8 Willpower Augments, 5 Alacrity Augments, 1 Accuracy Augment, 1 Critical mod, 1 Critical enhancement (alternately, 1 critical earpiece/implant), 6 Accuracy Pieces, 2 Surge Pieces, 2 Alacrity Pieces, everything else into Power. Advanced Anodyne Resolve Stim included.

 

Please take note: this is not Assassin DPS gospel, only a starting point, from which you need to decide what you're going to do in order to maximize your dps. You may find that you use a better rotation than what is assumed in these calculations (unlikely, thanks Tenebras for having a really tight rotation on your top parses!). You may also find that I made an error in calculating these values (I honestly think there are still errors, they're just probably minor (EDIT: I was right!)). None of this takes into account any AoE damage. Also, if you have a low APM, skip the Alacrity, it isn't helping you much. I hope you guys can all benefit from this, and I hope more people chime in on this thread, and we can improve the knowledge base of people who play this class, and all improve a little bit (or a lot).

 

Set Bonus suggestion: new 6 for all specs at all gear levels. By the math, your average damage will go up using the full new 6 piece, as opposed to the old 4 new 2. In Hatred, it's quite obvious that we Thrash much less, reducing the usefulness of the 4 piece, along with it having a smaller surge bonus now, and that also means that the damage difference between Thrash and Saber Strike has gone down, further reducing the usefulness of the 2 piece. For Deception, though, the combination of shorter cooldown on Recklessness as well as the auto-critical Maul once per minute makes the 6 set pull ahead of the old 4 new 2. The difference is larger than my math would indicate, too, if you can line the auto-crit up with one or more relic procs.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Aelanis

Thx so much for all your work guys! Can an experienced pvper comment on any differences in values for pvp? I'm guessing accuracy should be 0, critical 20-25% depending on personal preference, what about surge and alacrity?

Thx so much for all your work guys! Can an experienced pvper comment on any differences in values for pvp? I'm guessing accuracy should be 0, critical 20-25% depending on personal preference, what about surge and alacrity?

 

I'm actually looking to do a PvP analysis at some point, but I'd need someone to suggest to me what would be best to optimize for, such as burst, sustained pressure, etc. It will also involve deviating from strictly averages into using kill probabilities, based by class and spec including usage of their optimal cooldowns against the spec you're playing.

I'm actually looking to do a PvP analysis at some point, but I'd need someone to suggest to me what would be best to optimize for, such as burst, sustained pressure, etc. It will also involve deviating from strictly averages into using kill probabilities, based by class and spec including usage of their optimal cooldowns against the spec you're playing.

 

Quite honestly.. I don't think there is any point.

 

PvP doesn't work the same as PvE and because most of it is in your own hands (or sometimes actually not) going for whatever seems to provide an "optimal" output is pretty much never the same there.

 

 

The only thing I recommend is for you not to go into super heavy Surge DR's like we used to.

Because Alacrity is no longer crap now.

 

But otherwise, Alacrity doesn't serve you any good unless you have full control of your character.

At least you can still crit while you're under control.

Thanks for your work, though I would prefer having 1 or 2 more surge piece in both gear tiers and using a few alacrity augments. At least from what I've tried so far.

It's hard to test with the lag

Edited December 25, 2014 by invertioN

Quite honestly.. I don't think there is any point.

 

PvP doesn't work the same as PvE and because most of it is in your own hands (or sometimes actually not) going for whatever seems to provide an "optimal" output is pretty much never the same there.

 

 

The only thing I recommend is for you not to go into super heavy Surge DR's like we used to.

Because Alacrity is no longer crap now.

 

But otherwise, Alacrity doesn't serve you any good unless you have full control of your character.

At least you can still crit while you're under control.

 

Hey, it's something I can do if I get really bored Honestly, if you're going for sustained/pressure, I've already done most of the work, I would just need to adjust for PvP gear levels and re-run the code I already have. The interesting thing that may come out of doing a burst analysis is at what point does the mild effect from Alacrity give you a better chance of a kill over more Surge, assuming you're under control of your character for the burst window, and positioning isn't a problem for Deception.

 

Thanks for your work, though I would prefer having 1 or 2 more surge piece in both gear tiers and using a few alacrity augments. At least from what I've tried so far.

It's hard to test with the lag

 

I didn't really consider Alacrity augments because eventually we'll have enough tertiary stat that augmenting for it just won't be worth it in higher tiers.

I prefer much more these stats gj! 100 crit, as I said, are a bit low (weird indeed)

 

Btw isn't alacrity almost wasted in fights with "holes"? or not continous fight as Nefra?

Hey, it's something I can do if I get really bored Honestly, if you're going for sustained/pressure, I've already done most of the work, I would just need to adjust for PvP gear levels and re-run the code I already have. The interesting thing that may come out of doing a burst analysis is at what point does the mild effect from Alacrity give you a better chance of a kill over more Surge, assuming you're under control of your character for the burst window, and positioning isn't a problem for Deception.

 

I would be very interested in finding this out as well (surge vs alacrity).

I prefer much more these stats gj! 100 crit, as I said, are a bit low (weird indeed)

 

Btw isn't alacrity almost wasted in fights with "holes"? or not continous fight as Nefra?

 

I'm not sure where this misconception comes from. Alacrity is probably the only stat that continues to have benefit during downtime, due to the fact that your reduced coolowns are still ticking down.

I'm not sure where this misconception comes from. Alacrity is probably the only stat that continues to have benefit during downtime, due to the fact that your reduced coolowns are still ticking down.

 

it comes from low APM or high APM discussion.

Hey, it's something I can do if I get really bored Honestly, if you're going for sustained/pressure, I've already done most of the work, I would just need to adjust for PvP gear levels and re-run the code I already have. The interesting thing that may come out of doing a burst analysis is at what point does the mild effect from Alacrity give you a better chance of a kill over more Surge, assuming you're under control of your character for the burst window, and positioning isn't a problem for Deception.

 

There still isn't really any point in running a sim like this.

 

Because I can guarantee whatever number your calculator will present.. They will not be optimal in actual practise.

You simply can't account for the millions of different possibilities of events that can happen in actual PvP.

 

 

Alacrity is a clunky stat to work with.. And I'm positive that getting more than 5 enhancements of it will pretty much always end up in a damage loss regardless of what any equations would say.

Because I can guarantee whatever number your calculator will present.. They will not be optimal in actual practise.You simply can't account for the millions of different possibilities of events that can happen in actual PvP.

 

+

There still isn't really any point in running a sim like this.

 

Because I can guarantee whatever number your calculator will present.. They will not be optimal in actual practise.

You simply can't account for the millions of different possibilities of events that can happen in actual PvP.

 

 

Alacrity is a clunky stat to work with.. And I'm positive that getting more than 5 enhancements of it will pretty much always end up in a damage loss regardless of what any equations would say.

 

Except there is! You can figure out % chances that move combinations will kill certain specs even through their cooldowns, and how to best adjust for their cooldowns. Granted, it probably won't give us a ton of useful information, but, given certain assumptions, we can simulate situations that happen frequently enough to get some use out of it.

Can someone link the surge and alacrity curves here? I saw them somewhere in this forum and I don't remember where. What's the surge hard cap?

Can someone link the surge and alacrity curves here? I saw them somewhere in this forum and I don't remember where. What's the surge hard cap?

 

I can't remember where I put them, but the hard cap is at 30% boost for each. I've got one linked in the comment section of my PT guide though, so here it is:

 

Returns of stats: http://i.imgur.com/SWFIW2r.jpg

Diminishing Returns: http://i.imgur.com/IzcyPPw.jpg

I can't remember where I put them, but the hard cap is at 30% boost for each. I've got one linked in the comment section of my PT guide though, so here it is:

 

Returns of stats: http://i.imgur.com/SWFIW2r.jpg

Diminishing Returns: http://i.imgur.com/IzcyPPw.jpg

 

So reading your guide, you recommend going for 300 surge and rest into alacrity for pvp. Would you guys recommend the same for shadow?

So reading your guide, you recommend going for 300 surge and rest into alacrity for pvp. Would you guys recommend the same for shadow?

 

Well thats my personal recommendation, however I haven't had a chance to play with the auto-crit set bonus and see how much of an effect it has on surge. Others who have more experience in the field (e.g. Exilove) would be better suited to talk to here.

 

Though I like the perfectly named 'fake lag' effect alacrity has, especially since with my personal PvP setup it means I have a shorter cooldown on my self-heal cooldown (Shoulder Cannon)

Edited December 26, 2014 by TACeMossie

I'm not sure where this misconception comes from. Alacrity is probably the only stat that continues to have benefit during downtime, due to the fact that your reduced coolowns are still ticking down.

 

If your burst window before downtime is too short to let you get an extra attack due to alacrity, alacrity does not help your DPS. The downtime does not have to be very long—if you miss being able to cast on GCD at any time before getting the extra attack, your alacrity's contribution to DPS is strictly zero.

 

As an example, if you have 10 seconds before you have to move due to a template, you do 6 attacks with 0 alacrity and 6 attacks with 4.9% alacrity. The benefit of having 4.9% alacrity there is exactly 0 DPS. However, if you have exactly 5% alacrity you get 7 instead of 6 attacks, for a considerable increase in DPS.

 

While you could say something similar for most stats (if the RNG grants you less crits than expected, both crit and surge underperform), in the case of alacrity it is not dependent on the RNG but on the fight, on the internet connection, and your ability to maintain uptime (or your opponent's ability to reduce your uptime, in PvP).

 

Against that, alacrity does have one very real advantage for all classes other than Warrior and Knight, for fights with prolonged, enforced downtimes. During your downtime, alacrity makes you regenerate more resources. Whenever downtimes are significant, this means you can burn resources faster during uptime.

 

That said: it's more common to lose a second here or there than to have many GCD of enforced downtime. For melee DPS in a movement heavy fight, alacrity can be quite a gamble. It is more likely to pay for ranged DPS and healers.

Edited December 26, 2014 by MiaowZedong

.....

 

this is all great but you forget we have 3 dots which tick faster due to alacrity.. well at least hatred does

Edited December 26, 2014 by invertioN

this is all great but you forget we have 3 dots which tick faster due to alacrity.. well at least hatred does

 

And? They do the same damage per cast. If you can't cast the DoT an extra time, it will do the same ammount of damage.

If your burst window before downtime is too short to let you get an extra attack due to alacrity, alacrity does not help your DPS. The downtime does not have to be very long—if you miss being able to cast on GCD at any time before getting the extra attack, your alacrity's contribution to DPS is strictly zero.

 

As an example, if you have 10 seconds before you have to move due to a template, you do 6 attacks with 0 alacrity and 6 attacks with 4.9% alacrity. The benefit of having 4.9% alacrity there is exactly 0 DPS. However, if you have exactly 5% alacrity you get 7 instead of 6 attacks, for a considerable increase in DPS.

Adixia already commented on this, but squeezing in that extra dot tick in that window is still a dps increase, even if you can't fit another full global into it. Regardless, we're not talking about a burst window here, where you need to get extra hits in on a target in a short amount of time. Alacrity is largely useless, and nearly completely so for non-dot-classes, for increasing burst until you get an absurd amount of it. If you had exactly 42 seconds to attack a target (slow bomb runner on Unit 1 in the Sword Squadron fight), 3.57% Alacrity would net you a full extra global to hit the target with, and exactly 3.57% more damage from any 100% uptime dot on the target.

While you could say something similar for most stats (if the RNG grants you less crits than expected, both crit and surge underperform), in the case of alacrity it is not dependent on the RNG but on the fight, on the internet connection, and your ability to maintain uptime (or your opponent's ability to reduce your uptime, in PvP).

 

Against that, alacrity does have one very real advantage for all classes other than Warrior and Knight, for fights with prolonged, enforced downtimes. During your downtime, alacrity makes you regenerate more resources. Whenever downtimes are significant, this means you can burn resources faster during uptime.

 

That said: it's more common to lose a second here or there than to have many GCD of enforced downtime. For melee DPS in a movement heavy fight, alacrity can be quite a gamble. It is more likely to pay for ranged DPS and healers.

You don't need long bouts of downtime for Alacrity to benefit you. Any time you lose a second or two of uptime, Alacrity still benefits you, and it does add up over time. Any time you have to target switch, it benefits you more than any other stat, as a melee class, because no other stat does anything while you can't be on the target.

And? They do the same damage per cast. If you can't cast the DoT an extra time, it will do the same ammount of damage.

Except that if your dot gets clipped early, having alacrity means that you will, unless it got clipped quite early, have gotten more ticks in from your dot in the same amount of time. Alacrity is incredibly useful, and all of my characters will be running at least some if it does not mess up synchronization of cooldowns or energy management too badly.

And? They do the same damage per cast. If you can't cast the DoT an extra time, it will do the same ammount of damage.

 

Factually.. It will do less damage.

If you at least had more surge the crits wouldve hit slightly harder.

 

 

Your argument can be offset for any situation though... Sometimes over a longer period of time you WILL get more abilities off.. It evens out.

I don't think I'll ever be able to be set on an exact ratio of Surge:Alacrity and be happy about it. Even after reading the OP. Right now I have a 3:1 going with the extra optimized enhancement in inventory where I can test out a 2:2 ratio. But my parses seem to run about +/- 50 dps on average. That 100 spread may make it hard for me to see if there is actually any difference, unless the average is actually higher. I did notice though with 1 alacrity piece my APM has gone up from a 39.9-40.1 average to about 41.0 it seems according to parsec. Sitting at just under a 4 min TTK on a 1 mil health dummy makes me wonder though if I'd benefit from nixing the alacrity and just having surge since I don't use the best method for attacking in hatred. I don't keep my DoTs on a 3 GCD spread, just has never felt comfortable to me. I keep them together for the most part. I just wonder if those 4 extra attacks I'm getting off are better than the extra 3% crit multiplier I could potentially have and also how that translates to the different boss fights. In the end the difference probably won't matter too much. But still kind of drives me crazy.

I don't think I'll ever be able to be set on an exact ratio of Surge:Alacrity and be happy about it. Even after reading the OP. Right now I have a 3:1 going with the extra optimized enhancement in inventory where I can test out a 2:2 ratio. But my parses seem to run about +/- 50 dps on average. That 100 spread may make it hard for me to see if there is actually any difference, unless the average is actually higher. I did notice though with 1 alacrity piece my APM has gone up from a 39.9-40.1 average to about 41.0 it seems according to parsec. Sitting at just under a 4 min TTK on a 1 mil health dummy makes me wonder though if I'd benefit from nixing the alacrity and just having surge since I don't use the best method for attacking in hatred. I don't keep my DoTs on a 3 GCD spread, just has never felt comfortable to me. I keep them together for the most part. I just wonder if those 4 extra attacks I'm getting off are better than the extra 3% crit multiplier I could potentially have and also how that translates to the different boss fights. In the end the difference probably won't matter too much. But still kind of drives me crazy.

 

Here's the thing. 3% extra surge percent is not worth 3% damage, unlike 3% Alacrity. You have to multiply it through by your damage-weighted critical hit chance. For the parse I used in my guide on Dulfy, my weighted crit chance was 35.75%. 3% extra surge for me would have been a 1.07% damage increase. An extra piece of Alacrity (2, up from 1) would have been a 1.5% dps increase. The difference is honestly fairly small (half a percent), so you might not notice it due to parse variation, but it is indeed there.

Updated the OP, including an edit, because I simply wasn't careful enough in setting up my equations.