It would seem that it's gear over skill, and in the 49 bracket, it seems like that more because people are garbage... I mean... really bad. Now I pretty much always top the charts on my team whether I'm on my twink or my lv 15 assassin or something.

 

Now, the skillcap for a game like this is dangerously low. If you come across a good player, there's not much you can do to stop him. Unfortunately, his success, while some of it is gear, is also based on some skill. It's true that sometimes you just cannot react because you're stunned, or you got insta-killed, or something like that. It may seem that the person who killed you is most likely unskilled. However, people usually become pretty decent at the game after awhile of grinding their war hero gear lol. Anyways, just know that once you're in augmented BM (Don't do it! The next patch removes bm! Just save up on credits and comms, and be ready to buy a full set of war hero gear!), you'll be tearing up war hero people if you're really good (And by really I mean "actually", not "very" ).

 

Simply put, the game is about skill a good amount, but gear can make a difference. Of course, luck is a great deal of a factor too, but even you can get lucky....

Actually, I'm not sure the x%class/y%gear/z%skill idea captures it best. Try multipliers instead, for variety:

 

Multiply together a score for their class, their skill and their gear to get how dangerous a player they are. A better player can make better use of a good class or good gear. You can argue about what weight to give each score. Fractions allowed.

 

Class. No class can do nothing, whatever people like to say, so this doesn't begin at zero. But some are definitely easier to do well on, or harder to do much on.

 

7 (Arsenal Merc) to

10 (Sent/Mara).

 

Skill. This can go all the way from zero (did nothing all game to help you win) to 10 (the perfect player, we have never seen his - or her - like). Some people may even be such a threat to their own team's chances they deserve a negative, but I won't be so cruel as to propose it.

 

0 = Useless. Actually useless, nothing, an empty slot.

5 = Average player. Virtually everyone thinks they're above average. I know I do. At least I accept I may be kidding myself.

10 = The king of all PvP gods. This is not you.

 

Gear. All gear is some use, so again it doesn't start at zero. Let's say naked is 1. Fully (correctly) augmented War Hero with modified min-maxed mods would be 10.

 

1 = Naked

4 = Questing greens

6 = Recruit

8 = Battlemaster

8.5 = Augmented Battlemaster

9 = War Hero

9.5 = Augmented War Hero

10 = Min-maxed modified Augmented War Hero.

 

So to get a score, give some values for each category. The perfect player would get 10 in each, for a 1000 rating (10 x 10 x 10). I'll use myself as a guinea pig.

 

Class: 8

My main's a Scrapper. I'd argue I'm basically more use than an Arsenal Merc (7) or Lethality Operative, but most classes get more breaks than mine.

 

Skill: 7

I'm decent, or I wouldn't get asked to join people in PvP. What I may lack in ability I make up for in experience, having PvP'd through three servers with the moves. Elite War Hero.

 

Gear: 9.7

I'm in min-maxed aug WH, but I've slacked by not doing the PvE operations to get the PvE 2-piece shell bonus, so no top score.

 

My score: 8 x 7 x 9.7 = 543.2

 

Draki is a JG on my server. They're a long-timer in Nostrum Dolus, probably Red Eclipse's top PvP guild, and was scary before the buff to focus.

 

Draki's score: 9.5 x 9 x 10 = 855

 

Mr'Noob is an imaginary sorc on Jung Ma. He just made 50, and has queued for PvP for the first time without picking up any recuit gear. He knew no better.

 

Mr'Noob's score: 8.5 x 2 x 4 = 68

 

Misspvp knows what she's doing, is pretty hot at warzones, and has just rolled up a marauder to 50 to see how it plays.

 

Misspvp's score: 10 x 8 x 6 = 480

 

So Miss PvP would give me problems and murder Mr'Noob, but Draki would probably still swat her until she improved her gear.

 

You can argue about what score the different advanced classes or gear should get in this system. The point is that instead of adding together the different aspects as the first model does, it lets them interact, so strong skill lets you get more out of your recruit gear.

 

Bit OT. I was bored at lunchtime.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Wainamoinen

 

Class.

 

Skill.

 

Gear. .

 

Voice teamspeak

Pocket healer behind your back

Edited November 22, 2012 by TonyDragonflame

Voice teamspeak

Pocket healer behind your back

 

I was thinking of an imaginary "dangerous" score of an individual player, outside factors like teammates or having a pocket healer aren't part of it.

 

I suppose you could try something different, and add a fourth factor for "teamwork", but that's going to be complicated by the fact it depends on the other players, so you have to take their abilites into account. You'd have to know their skill, their ability to work as a team, the level of teamwork (couple of mates on at the same time, or a select four-man composition with voice comms?): horrible to work out.

 

Would be interesting if you could determine a "force multiplier" for working as a coordinated team with tank, heals and dps though. How much more effective would it make you than the same four as random strangers? Twice, so like eight randoms?

25% Spec

35% Skill

40% Gear

 

The most accurate assessment ^

 

To all the geared out people saying that it's all about skill, I invite you to suit up in the recruit set for a week and find out just how "skilled" you really are. Unless you're a Pyro PT/Assault VG...then it has nothing to do with skill at all, or really gear for that matter. A blind kid having a seizure could play that spec.

Edited November 22, 2012 by TheronFett

tldr its a little bit of everything... einsteins

tldr its a little bit of everything... einsteins

 

You know that it's 100% gear and 100% other OP classes and 0% skill, stop trying to confuse matters.

Gear does next to nothing, I lvled 2 of my toons from 10-49 only upgraded gear at 20 and 40 and played the biggest role for my team in most games. (if I didnt top DPS it's cuz I wasn't hitting the tank that got healed all game. I was actually killing people and having more downtime because I was running between people I was killing). Having level 20 gear at 39 is way worse than having any kind of average gear at 50 vs geared players.

 

No it isn't. Once again, gear matters very little in under-50 warzones. The gear issue that is being discussed is for level 50 PVP. Having level 20 gear at level 39, you still get bolstered and can hit just as much as anyone else in that warzone. You also won't get hit for more just because you're gear is outdated. Bolster is an equalizer of stats. The main disadvantages in under-50 warzones is that you are limited at lower levels by having fewer abilities than those players with a higher level toon. There were people in under-50's on my old server who stripped naked for laughs and still got top damage. In level 50 warzones, it's completely different. How hard you hit and how much you can get hit for is determined by gear.

This game is a giant spreadsheet of numbers. Skill is only the determining factor if those numbers are near equal.

 

Gear, stats, numbers > skill the vast majority of the time.

No it isn't. Once again, gear matters very little in under-50 warzones. The gear issue that is being discussed is for level 50 PVP. Having level 20 gear at level 39, you still get bolstered and can hit just as much as anyone else in that warzone.

 

Not actually correct. Bolster scales gear by level, so any advantage/disadvantage in gear at your low level is scaled up proportionately. Or so I have always been led to believe, at any rate.

 

I guess that if you can find a class that gets big-ticket abilities at the lowest possible level, then twink them as hard as you can, you'll see a bigger gain than doing it at higher sub-50 levels. 49 is different because of all the high level gear you can grab at that point.

When you win it's all about skill.

When you lose it's all about gear.

Not actually correct. Bolster scales gear by level, so any advantage/disadvantage in gear at your low level is scaled up proportionately. Or so I have always been led to believe, at any rate.

 

I guess that if you can find a class that gets big-ticket abilities at the lowest possible level, then twink them as hard as you can, you'll see a bigger gain than doing it at higher sub-50 levels. 49 is different because of all the high level gear you can grab at that point.

 

It does matter you are right. You can take a level 40 wearing level 35 green gear into a warzone. Then buy lvl 40 purple equipment and notice a pretty big difference.

50% class, 30% gear, 15% skill, 15% stun.

Skill > Gear

 

dont be one of the QQ carebears that use gear as a crutch for their lack of skill

 

Let me guess- you're in full WH, augmented and min/maxed by mod switching.

 

Simply put- you're using a crutch yourself and know you're terrible without it.

 

And we all know this is true- because if we asked you to put out a few videos of you playing in recruit gear, you'd balk at the very idea of having to play without a massive statistical damage.

 

The only bads are the people who don't know that having 6% bonus damage, defense and healing from expertise alone, then another 15+% bonus to other stats, and as much as a 50% bonus to health constitutes a difference that can only be overcome if you're very good fighting someone who is very bad.

Not actually correct. Bolster scales gear by level, so any advantage/disadvantage in gear at your low level is scaled up proportionately. Or so I have always been led to believe, at any rate.

 

I guess that if you can find a class that gets big-ticket abilities at the lowest possible level, then twink them as hard as you can, you'll see a bigger gain than doing it at higher sub-50 levels. 49 is different because of all the high level gear you can grab at that point.

 

Gear isn't the be all and end all. Simply put- in greens that are on average 5 levels lower than me, my sniper is still able to get top damage in WZ every time, often by as much as 50% over the second player. My mara is able to get 55 kills when the second best is at 35.

 

I'd love to see someone in level 45 greens top the charts in level 50 pvp on a regular basis- but even the best players won't be able to do that.

Atm I would say gear>skill simply becasue some of the hardest hitting moves in the game (smash/forcesweep) (force lighting tank assasins in dps gear) dont take much if any real set up and are difficult to prevent unless u have a cc up. There is a big diffrence bewteen getting hit by a 3900 smash or a 6k smash,and a 1900 force lighting tick between a 1300 force lighting tick. Same goes for pyrotechs with the dot then rail shot followed by thermal grenades. Imo the biggest issue is the TTK is rly short in this game.

 

 

 

So ya gear>skill atm... hope 1.6 fixes that b/c warzones are full of ppl using Geared Classes farming comms then sending warhero gear via legacy gear to alts...and this isnt a very attractive way to get new players to want to pvp:(

 

On a side note they should really rethink some of the pvp set bonues some classes have horrible bonuses while other classes are able to benifit from thier other adv class (sent/maras) using the 4 piece jugg/gaurd vindicator bonus

Edited November 22, 2012 by Lalainnia

Right now its all about gear. You don't need skill. A skilled player decked out in recruit gear doesn't stand a chance against a non-skilled player decked out in full war hero. That's how much of an advantage the gear makes.

 

Gear > Class > Skill

Right now its all about gear. You don't need skill. A skilled player decked out in recruit gear doesn't stand a chance against a non-skilled player decked out in full min-maxed/augged war hero. That's how much of an advantage the gear makes.

 

Gear > Class > Skill

 

 

Pretty much this (with the addition). No amount of skill is going to save you from a 7k smash when you only have 14k hit points.

PvP in this game has never been about gear. It has been, from the very beginning, about resource management, positioning, and cool-down timing. In other words, pvp in this game is primarily skill-based, though obviously better gear will most likely improve your performance. This is why people in lower tier gear frequently outperform other people in higher tier gear (put up better numbers).

Pretty much this (with the addition). No amount of skill is going to save you from a 7k smash when you only have 14k hit points.

 

How do you get a 7k smash without playing the game enough to have some skill? Full war hero won't get you a 7k smash (not even vs recruit unless maybe you've got a wz buff) - you need bis gear for that. Full war hero takes a long time to grind for (dozens to hundreds of hours), bis takes more time on top of that. How do you have 0 skill after that? Maybe if the person bought the account? Put my sin in recruit gear and he will destroy a smasher that hasn't played the game before (and I'm not the best player or sin player ever) - the smasher won't stand a chance, actually. Heck, put my sentinel in recruit gear, make him watchman - still no chance for the smasher with no skill and that fight will be less close just because that's what I'm more used to. You need both gear and skill to do well in this game and you can't "win" without either.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Savej

Always skill. Gear and Class will only get you so far.

 

Tell that to the dps commandos facing off against hybrid tankasins or maras lol. The sin/mara would have to be pretty much braindead to lose.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Smashbrother

Class > Gear > Skill

Class > Gear > Skill

 

Says it all. Certain classes are better in pvp than others by default now. Prior to 1.2 it didn't used to be like that, and all classes could compete.

 

Bioware broke the pvp in their own game

Class > Gear > Skill

 

I'll add to that:

 

Solo vs PreMade > Class > Gear > Skill

 

 

In other words, TOR's PvP for the most part, in an average match, has almost nothing to do with skill.

 

You can tell who that applies to by the the posts they make here.

 

 

200 million, eh?

I'll add to that:

 

Solo vs PreMade > Class > Gear > Skill

 

 

In other words, TOR's PvP for the most part, in an average match, has almost nothing to do with skill.

 

You can tell who that applies to by the the posts they make here.

 

 

200 million, eh?

Only problem with that theory is that not every game is a premade vs pugs and even in the games where it happens there's a good chance that the premade sucks.

 

So we're back to square one where blaming the gear is only a reflection of one's own poor skill.

 

Class > skill >gear

 

Class: Decides what you can and cannot do and in some sense also how much damage you will take

Skill: What you can do with the tools given

Gear:

 

We all take big hits, try sorc/sage and you will do it regardless of expertise, but if you consistently do it it's not a gear issue, it's a matter of you being in the wrong place all the time (skill) or not using the tools you were given for that specific situation (class). The gear is a last resort for when you've managed to screw up everything els.

Edited November 23, 2012 by MidichIorian