Got MM Nathema on queue today.

Nobody else even zoned in before quitting.

Nathema is not a difficult FP. People were bizarrely more game for Blood Hunt than they were for freakin' Nathema.

There's no broader point behind this post. I just rrrrgh.

You're telling me the bonus reward for queuing all flashpoints is not given if you don't queue all flashpoints?

 

 

Imagine being Bioware listening to this garbage.

 

They add a bonus reward to get people experienced in all flashpoints and compensate for the fact that sometimes its a less desirable pop but end up with people complaining that they want the reward by only doing their favourite flashpoints.

 

I'm not angry at you. Just disappointed in your attitude of wanting the reward for extra effort. For no effort.

Extra effort? You're calling spamming HS 24/7 extra effort?

But hey, at least you understood the GF bonus, so there is still hope for you .

ehhhhm he's right you know....

all i see is little special snowflakes, who dont get the point at all....

you queue for ALL fps and you get a reward for that...

it can be anything from HS to umbara...

you accepted the condition to play ALL fps...

as YOU want YOUR reward....

there are 3 other people in this group....

so YOU let those 3 people down or potentially force them into a quitter penalty....

so YOU are basically wasting others time on purpose only because YOU want YOUR reward (which you obviously dont deserve) and YOU want it YOUR way....

use your brains <3 they are awesome <3

Remove braindead people from queing up only for HS, and I'm game. I also don't mind if HS really is a random pop with a premade group, because then I can tell for sure that it is random, and not some idiot's special pick. That's the problem here: 99% of the times it's HS with jerks and/or bads in the group, because that's the only FP they are capable of doing.

I also don't see how I would be letting three other people down by leaving? They'll be better off with someone's companion, because there are so many healers around who don't know what a cleanse is, or that they actually need to use it. It will work perfectly even when it's the tank that leaves the group. There are only a few flashpoints that can't be done with a companion, and HS isn't one of them.

Or here's an idea: make separate groups for people who are willing to do any flashpoint that pops, and put the HS spammers who only tick one or two easiest ones to another queue. Those people are basically ruining the GF from people who would like to do randoms (like me) and they will kill GF completely if spamming only HS continues for too long.

I used to pug a lot of vet and MM FPs as a tank, but it has become too disgusting with 6.0, so I'm mostly doing premades now. And yea, if I have to pug, and it pops HS, I will insta quit. The idiots have a right to pick only HS, and I have a right to leave if HS pops. They play the game how they want to, and I play the game how I want to. Their rights don't triumph mine. Shame about the GF being ruined, but I'm not the one ruining it.

Of course I'm right.

I approve entirely of the deserter debuff for ditching a group without making an effort. I was informed that at least killing one boss exempts you from the debuff, I don't do ditching groups much so someone else will have to confirm.

I queue all flashpoints and if I have to carry the group to the end so be it, I can do that more easily than most.

There's an endless supply of bad players and if you had a group you wouldn't be in a pug so if you're the better player you think you are it's an opportunity to raise the standard by supporting the pug you chose to be in with your GF selections.

At any rate, complaining that you find bad players in pugs is a terrible thing to say. Where else are they going to be? Vet mode fps are specifically to accommodate badly geared and played characters of any spec and virtually guarantee the flashpoint can be completed.

But as I said before, it's all up to you to ditch a group you pretended to volunteer for. I believe the lockout is actually longer than doing HS which is ironic but very appropriate. The loot maths really suck if you consider the loss of all the loot and the bonus compared to demonstrating your quality as a player by leading any flashpoint you're presented with.

Of course I'm right.

 

I approve entirely of the deserter debuff for ditching a group without making an effort. I was informed that at least killing one boss exempts you from the debuff, I don't do ditching groups much so someone else will have to confirm.

 

I queue all flashpoints and if I have to carry the group to the end so be it, I can do that more easily than most.

 

There's an endless supply of bad players and if you had a group you wouldn't be in a pug so if you're the better player you think you are it's an opportunity to raise the standard by supporting the pug you chose to be in with your GF selections.

 

At any rate, complaining that you find bad players in pugs is a terrible thing to say. Where else are they going to be? Vet mode fps are specifically to accommodate badly geared and played characters of any spec and virtually guarantee the flashpoint can be completed.

 

But as I said before, it's all up to you to ditch a group you pretended to volunteer for. I believe the lockout is actually longer than doing HS which is ironic but very appropriate. The loot maths really suck if you consider the loss of all the loot and the bonus compared to demonstrating your quality as a player by leading any flashpoint you're presented with.

I have plenty of clones to queue again immediately when I leave a group, so the lockout doesn't really affect me, although it's annoying enough to keep me from pugging most of the time I go for FPs. And it isn't only about having bads in the group either. I don't mind advicing on the mechanics, I'd be happy to, but people don't care. When things go south, the same people get toxic, like it had nothing to do with how they performed. They blame everyone else but themselves. So yes, they should go veterans, as they can't handle MM, and don't even have the basic manners or social skills.

I am, for all intents and purposes, new to this game. Been playing off an on since February of this year, and for a few months earily 2018. I only have one character and that is my sorc that I heal on full time. I will agree that people leaving early can be aggravating. A few times I have been that person. Here are the reasons I will ditch a MMFP queue/group.

1) There is someone not 75 in the group at confirmation.

2) Harder dungeon and someone is sup 300 (Sometimes I will still give it a shot, in which case, case 2 below then comes into play.)

3) Intermediate dungeon and 2 or more people are sub 280.

Next one is conditions in which I will leave a run in progress:

1) Rudeness with a refusal to boot the offender

2) Repeated incompetence on part of tank and/or refusal to learn when advice and instruction is provided -- (I want to point out, if someone is new, I AM willing to teach a fight. I taught a Nathema run to two new DPS who had never done it before. We one shot all bosses cept for Zildrog itself, but they still responded to instruction and corrections well.)

I do want to say, there is only 1 master dungeon to date I have yet to be able to clear and that is A Traitor Among the Chiss. Everything else, including Operation Meridian, I have completed at least once as a healer in master difficulty.

I am, for all intents and purposes, new to this game. Been playing off an on since February of this year, and for a few months earily 2018. I only have one character and that is my sorc that I heal on full time. I will agree that people leaving early can be aggravating. A few times I have been that person. Here are the reasons I will ditch a MMFP queue/group.

 

1) There is someone not 75 in the group at confirmation.

2) Harder dungeon and someone is sup 300 (Sometimes I will still give it a shot, in which case, case 2 below then comes into play.)

3) Intermediate dungeon and 2 or more people are sub 280.

 

Next one is conditions in which I will leave a run in progress:

 

1) Rudeness with a refusal to boot the offender

2) Repeated incompetence on part of tank and/or refusal to learn when advice and instruction is provided -- (I want to point out, if someone is new, I AM willing to teach a fight. I taught a Nathema run to two new DPS who had never done it before. We one shot all bosses cept for Zildrog itself, but they still responded to instruction and corrections well.)

 

I do want to say, there is only 1 master dungeon to date I have yet to be able to clear and that is A Traitor Among the Chiss. Everything else, including Operation Meridian, I have completed at least once as a healer in master difficulty.

Not new but I follow similar logic - and for both vet and MM.

I'm also someone with dozens of alts, so I won't stick around in a group that has a poor chance of success (success for me is completing in a reasonable amount of time - none of this is progression and I will not stick around for a slow slog wipe fest when I can do most of these duo with a competent player and companions, and some even solo).

I also won't stick around for a group with toxic players who make the run miserable - either they go or I go.

I will wait for and help new players who are willing to work with the group and listen, and enjoy helping friendly team oriented players complete content they have not done before.

But if group mates have clearly played the game awhile, especially those on a 75 / 306 character, and still suck, refuse to work with the group, and / or are toxic, I will drop and think nothing of it.

1) There is someone not 75 in the group at confirmation.

2) Harder dungeon and someone is sup 300 (Sometimes I will still give it a shot, in which case, case 2 below then comes into play.)

3) Intermediate dungeon and 2 or more people are sub 280.

It's your decision of course but the level of the player or their item rating is not really an indicator of how well they are going to perform in Master mode FPs. Most of them are intended to be available from level 50 on after all, so it's not unusual to queue there. Actually I don't know if there still is that itemrating minimum for Umbara, Nathema and Copero after 6.0.

But in general, there is a bolster mechanic in place that puts them to level 70 as well as giving them basic stats that are enough to succeed through the FP, under the condition the players know about how to play their class and role to some degree. While of course that unfortunately isn't a given in random groups, it isn't guaranteed with an all 75 group either.

From my experience players with lower toons actually are more likely to tell if they don't know mechanics and more careful about playing as a trinity group, while a certain type of players in full 306 are more prone to think themselves invincible and run in without waiting for the group, either tank, healer or dps being ready.

Yes, it always could be an actual new player, but just as well, if not more likely after all this time, it could be the x-th alt of that guy that has nearly 100% FP achievements. I had great level 50+ in the harder FPs and I had really bad max level max gear players that made Athiss feeling like being in Bloodhunt. It's random and you get any kind of player into your group.

There simply is no need for max gear and never was for Master mode FPs, not even before bolster (except the traitor arc FP but those were still hit an miss even with max level and max geared players). Knowing what to do is the key as back in 4.x times players proved by doing Bloodhunt naked or with empty armour shells, so just the bolster stats, to show the nerf cries back then were unwarranted.

Though you can't see that quality from neither the character level nor the gear rating, you could look at the achievements maybe, but even that doesn't necessarily tell you if this player is going to perform poorly or not.

If you don't want to take that risk, you need to queue with people you know.

Knowing what to do is the key as back in 4.x times players proved by doing Bloodhunt naked or with empty armour shells, so just the bolster stats, to show the nerf cries back then were unwarranted.

Though you can't see that quality from neither the character level nor the gear rating, you could look at the achievements maybe, but even that doesn't necessarily tell you if this player is going to perform poorly or not.

If you don't want to take that risk, you need to queue with people you know.

blood hunt mm is even possible with only 2 man and without companions... its quite a challenge but doable...

what me bothers nowadays are those brainless rusher tanks, who already pull the next group of mobs when the previous one is still at a average life pool of 50%... **** is not going to be faster that way... because the dps still have to finish the old group and then get to the next one in combat... they lower tank dps and increase travel times beetween mobs... because in their minds it must be faster because ehhhhm reasons i think.....

i have the strong feeling many people nowadays play tank just so that they get a pop faster...

BIOWARE PLS NERF LOOT DROPS FROM FPS AND MAKE OPS GREAT AGAIN!!!

I used to love running FPS... nowadays its more like a chore and my ignore list is growing steadily

So, the TL;DR for this thread is - no, there's no way to stop selfish a**hats from insta-quitting. 🙄

Translation: There's no way Bioware can force players to run instances they dislike for whatever reason, as well as there's no way toxic and fail boat bad players can force other players to group with them.

It's your decision of course but the level of the player or their item rating is not really an indicator of how well they are going to perform in Master mode FPs. Most of them are intended to be available from level 50 on after all, so it's not unusual to queue there. Actually I don't know if there still is that itemrating minimum for Umbara, Nathema and Copero after 6.0.

But in general, there is a bolster mechanic in place that puts them to level 70 as well as giving them basic stats that are enough to succeed through the FP, under the condition the players know about how to play their class and role to some degree. While of course that unfortunately isn't a given in random groups, it isn't guaranteed with an all 75 group either.

From my experience players with lower toons actually are more likely to tell if they don't know mechanics and more careful about playing as a trinity group, while a certain type of players in full 306 are more prone to think themselves invincible and run in without waiting for the group, either tank, healer or dps being ready.

Yes, it always could be an actual new player, but just as well, if not more likely after all this time, it could be the x-th alt of that guy that has nearly 100% FP achievements. I had great level 50+ in the harder FPs and I had really bad max level max gear players that made Athiss feeling like being in Bloodhunt. It's random and you get any kind of player into your group.

There simply is no need for max gear and never was for Master mode FPs, not even before bolster (except the traitor arc FP but those were still hit an miss even with max level and max geared players). Knowing what to do is the key as back in 4.x times players proved by doing Bloodhunt naked or with empty armour shells, so just the bolster stats, to show the nerf cries back then were unwarranted.

Though you can't see that quality from neither the character level nor the gear rating, you could look at the achievements maybe, but even that doesn't necessarily tell you if this player is going to perform poorly or not.

If you don't want to take that risk, you need to queue with people you know.

When I first started queueing I stayed for everything. I built my rules for when I leave based on hard experience.

Blood Hunt, I guess, was something that people considered hard in the past? I know on the 2nd boss, I don't dodge anything the bosses do. I eat every aoe, root my feet, and just heal hard whole fight. For last boss, I just pick the top DPS and myself and prioritize us. That is unless the tank can mitigate properly. (My last group couldn't, so I just kept top DPS and myself up until boss died. Objective Meridiant went same way, Was easier to heal myself and one DPS and kill boss that way.)

So, the TL;DR for this thread is - no, there's no way to stop selfish a**hats from insta-quitting. 🙄

No way at all.

The penalties are already there. You quit the Q you go to the back again. You quit after accepting a pop you get a lockout and even if you log another char back of the queue you go again.

Flashpoint grinding is a load of rubbish anyway. It's entirely artificial sponsoring of old content in new content.

However it is more accessible than ever to gear up and a consequence is everyone gets mixed with everyone if they've got no friends and want to gear up. It's entirely on the players that they're solo queuing VM flashpoints so any complaints about meeting ordinary VM level players and not overpowered 30 stack level 75's are laughable.

Imagine finding level 20's in your VM Hammer Station How dare they spoil the experience of this bottom level content by not being max level.

That - so much that.

There are two other reasons people quit from the start.

3. They quit when certain FPs pop because they figure a pug will not clear but do not bother inspecting anything about the group.

4. Trolls. Oddly I recently came across a troll queueing as a tank. Let the timer on accepting the queue run out. Rinse and repeat a few times. Then accepted the queue and dropped immediately even though it was an extremely easy FP. I learned then that when you are in queue and add someone to the ignore list it does not update with the queue.

The best way to avoid player dropping is to form your own group or most of it. Best to do it with guild members you run with regularly. Forming at least most of the group with regulars you run with give you some control.

Funny story, semi related. We ran an ops but needed to but a few player. A healer we pugged was sitting atop a huge mount while the rest of us killed trash. I asked why they were not healing to which they said it was just trash. After kicking them they asked why. 7 of us are doing something and while you did nothing. We do not want to carry you.

The point is, run with regular people. Form your own group. Take control of your game.

Imagine finding level 20's in your VM Hammer Station How dare they spoil the experience of this bottom level content by not being max level.

Funny you should say that. Just a few nights ago I was in a VM FP (not sure if it was HS) with myself, level 75 Gunslinger, and 2 level 17s and a level 16(I forget their classes). One of the 17s and the 16 seemed to be new to the FP, and so they died often. However, I was happy to keep going. But, one 17 and the 16 both quit about halfway through and we got another 70+ and a 40-ish to replace them. Then we finished with no problem.

But I didn't quit. 😁

Let me add to this discussion by providing the perspective of someone who will sometimes insta-quit.

I am an ex-NiM player, founder, and in the current state of the game queue as tank or healer (for fast pop) for random MM flashpoints when I don’t have any guildies/friends to play with. Needless to say I have been playing for a long time and can pretty much dream all these fights. I’d describe myself as a patient, helpful, player. I won’t quit after a single wipe, I will always ask if people know tactics and happily spend 5 minutes explaining them.

But even my patience has its limits, and due to MM FPs being the fastest way to gear at the moment, anyone and everyone is running them. This means a large influx of players who are not geared for it, can’t be bothered to read up on strats or, worse, can’t even be bothered to follow tactics that are explained to them. To give an example, this weekend I was running Korriban Incursion with a group where both DPS had almost starting-level iRating on their gear and difficulty playing their class to its potential. We pulled the droid 3 times and all 3 times we wiped to enrage. Even with further instructions the final pull it still enraged at 10% because one of the DPS kept running all the way back to the elevator to avoid the red circles. We had to ask this guy to leave to continue. Harsh, perhaps, but this is not solo or VM, it is MM. And if you queue for random, you better be ready to play all of them and not just the easy low-lvl ones. But a lot of players aren’t.

In most MM FPs you can carry these players, and I really don’t even mind doing so. If I did I would refrain from PUGing all together. But especially in the new FPS, that is just not an option. I play to unwind from work and have fun. Wiping for hours on the last boss in Umbara or the 2nd boss of Chiss because people have no clue what to do and refuse to learn is not my idea of fun. So, yes, when these pop and I am not with guildies I quit and switch to an alt to play. Does that make me an arrogant a**hat? I don’t know. Maybe. But what about players queueing for these FPs that are far from ready for it? What are they? You can’t talk about effect without talking about cause.

Having said that, I only quit when the 4 newest FPs pop. Those I only run with guildies or friends. The older FPs are more forgiving and I will forever teach players how to do the 2nd boss in LI and we always finish the FP - albeit a tad slower than when I don’t PUG.

Let me add to this discussion by providing the perspective of someone who will sometimes insta-quit.

 

I am an ex-NiM player, founder, and in the current state of the game queue as tank or healer (for fast pop) for random MM flashpoints when I don’t have any guildies/friends to play with. Needless to say I have been playing for a long time and can pretty much dream all these fights. I’d describe myself as a patient, helpful, player. I won’t quit after a single wipe, I will always ask if people know tactics and happily spend 5 minutes explaining them.

 

But even my patience has its limits, and due to MM FPs being the fastest way to gear at the moment, anyone and everyone is running them. This means a large influx of players who are not geared for it, can’t be bothered to read up on strats or, worse, can’t even be bothered to follow tactics that are explained to them. To give an example, this weekend I was running Korriban Incursion with a group where both DPS had almost starting-level iRating on their gear and difficulty playing their class to its potential. We pulled the droid 3 times and all 3 times we wiped to enrage. Even with further instructions the final pull it still enraged at 10% because one of the DPS kept running all the way back to the elevator to avoid the red circles. We had to ask this guy to leave to continue. Harsh, perhaps, but this is not solo or VM, it is MM. And if you queue for random, you better be ready to play all of them and not just the easy low-lvl ones. But a lot of players aren’t.

 

In most MM FPs you can carry these players, and I really don’t even mind doing so. If I did I would refrain from PUGing all together. But especially in the new FPS, that is just not an option. I play to unwind from work and have fun. Wiping for hours on the last boss in Umbara or the 2nd boss of Chiss because people have no clue what to do and refuse to learn is not my idea of fun. So, yes, when these pop and I am not with guildies I quit and switch to an alt to play. Does that make me an arrogant a**hat? I don’t know. Maybe. But what about players queueing for these FPs that are far from ready for it? What are they? You can’t talk about effect without talking about cause.

 

Having said that, I only quit when the 4 newest FPs pop. Those I only run with guildies or friends. The older FPs are more forgiving and I will forever teach players how to do the 2nd boss in LI and we always finish the FP - albeit a tad slower than when I don’t PUG.

Pretty much how I play - if I can help a group get through something (which most of the content is totally doable even with less than stellar players as long as they listen), and if the group is willing to listen, I'll do so.

But I can't do anything about players who refuse to follow basic instructions or are so bad at their role the boss continuously enrages at or above 20%.

And no, nothing wrong with leaving groups that have little to no hope of success - I'm sure even the holier than thou types dog cussing anyone who dare leave a group have breaking points as I don't think anyone but the truly insane would stick around for hours wiping in a flashpoint.

the penalty should be in creased to 30 min and should be legacy wide....

that would help a bit i guess...

I'm quite sure it's 15 minutes because after quite some time waiting for a MM, got a full level 75 team pop, loaded up into Umbara, the tank said he didn't have time for it and left.

Not after one boss so there was no lockout penalty, ditched the group at spawn.

So every person except the last one was obliged to leave the fp with a 15 minute lockout.

Nothing like getting sabotaged by some worthless pug and punished by the game to boot.