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nerf snipers


vwsupra

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Actually it is amusing that snipers seem to get no flak for their insane damage. I think it's just because most people don't really know what is actually killing them.

 

No, it's because its INCREDIBLY easy to shut down a sniper. One good melee of any class can do it. Two competant melee of any class can do it. A sorc getting healed can do it. They can be CCed to death unlike any other class.

 

If left alone, or supported by a good healer and tank, a GS can do a ton of damage. Without that, he is completely useless. For a Sniper to do well, he needs to be babysat by his team. When you get beat by a sniper, it may look like it was him on the scoreboard, but really it was his team that beat you by being well organized and working well together.

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No, it's because its INCREDIBLY easy to shut down a sniper. One good melee of any class can do it. Two competant melee of any class can do it. A sorc getting healed can do it. They can be CCed to death unlike any other class.

 

If left alone, or supported by a good healer and tank, a GS can do a ton of damage. Without that, he is completely useless. For a Sniper to do well, he needs to be babysat by his team. When you get beat by a sniper, it may look like it was him on the scoreboard, but really it was his team that beat you by being well organized and working well together.

 

CCed to death?lol how is that different from ANY other class?Have you forgot snipers get a 20 second CC immunity?

And all their roots+Aoe abilities,One good melee class,can't beat a lethality or Marksman/engineers sniper in a 1v1,2 might be able to kill the sniper but definately not one.

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CCed to death?lol how is that different from ANY other class?Have you forgot snipers get a 20 second CC immunity?

And all their roots+Aoe abilities,One good melee class,can't beat a lethality or Marksman/engineers sniper in a 1v1,2 might be able to kill the sniper but definately not one.

 

That CC immunity only comes every minute and you need to predict when to use it properly. You can't activate it when you're already CCed, you know. It's really only useful when an operative or someone is dumb enough to get close enough that you can see him in stealth before he starts his attack. Otherwise, CCs come too unexpectedly to be of any use. I think that, as people tend to do and shouldn't when discussing balance, that you're considering a one on one. Sure, in a 1v1 the sniper will pop his entrench and be in very good shape. In a warzone, though, a CC can come from anywhere at any time.

 

Now apart from that useful but limited skill, its much harder for a sniper to deal with CCs than other classes. They're very squishy, and very slow. He can't break a stun and use his resilience like a Shadow, run away like a Sage, leap somewhere like a Sentinel, or what have you. The melee classes all tend to have several pretty good CCs - especially Juggernauts/Guardians, so it's very hard for a sniper to safely use his break on any one of them. Yes, its hard on the melee class too if the sniper has his knockbacks and root on cooldown, but if he does not or if the melee gets any support from even one other player, that sniper's day is done.

 

A good sniper can put up 800 k in a voidstar if he's left alone or has good heals. If he doesn't, he's going to struggle mightily.

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What you didn't like the response you got from the first thread so you started a new one 10 minutes later. Shame. It seems unlikely that the sniper killed you in 3 global cooldowns unless you were being hit by something else and you just didn't realize it. Assuming you are full war hero that is. A sniper can definitely kill a recruit geared person in 3 global cooldowns. Edited by Renita
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What you didn't like the response you got from the first thread so you started a new one 10 minutes later. Shame. It seems unlikely that the sniper killed you in 3 global cooldowns unless you were being hit by something else and you just didn't realize it. Assuming you are full war hero that is. A sniper can definitely kill a recruit geared person in 3 global cooldowns.

 

I can kill full augmented Warhero sages in 3-4

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I have a gunslinger...and I am well known on my server (less so sense merger...but I digress) If left alone I will mow thru anything with my dps. However sense people see me and will make my life terrible unless I have have a healer on me. 1v1 I will tear most mara/sents apart. PT's are a good fight...50/50 chance i win the fight. IF you gang up on me I will lose.

 

If you want to nerf snipers...all that will accomplish is more maras/sents and pt/vans rerolling. Just what we need :rolleyes:

 

Personally I feel the game is fairly well balanced right now. You put equal gear and equal skill up against each other you will have very good fights. Some classes are better vs others yes...but nobody is outragously better then the other 1v1. The issue right now with all of the fotm rerolls is that you have teams of pt or maras rolling thru wzs. There is very little you can do against those groups unless you have awesome heals and a similiar make up including sents and vans.

 

So...please don't take away my gunslingers abilities :D

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CCed to death?lol how is that different from ANY other class?Have you forgot snipers get a 20 second CC immunity?

And all their roots+Aoe abilities,One good melee class,can't beat a lethality or Marksman/engineers sniper in a 1v1,2 might be able to kill the sniper but definately not one.

 

i beat sniper/gs all the time there saber fodder for a sin/shadow tank. iI have not found one good sniper/gs that can kill my tank before i kill them while using cyber tech grenades and all my stuns. I end up with 3/4 health and the sniper dead. ya we cant take sniper no sir. lol cc is your friend i can cc more then any sniper/gs any day

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I have a gunslinger...and I am well known on my server (less so sense merger...but I digress) If left alone I will mow thru anything with my dps. However sense people see me and will make my life terrible unless I have have a healer on me. 1v1 I will tear most mara/sents apart. PT's are a good fight...50/50 chance i win the fight. IF you gang up on me I will lose.

 

If you want to nerf snipers...all that will accomplish is more maras/sents and pt/vans rerolling. Just what we need :rolleyes:

 

Personally I feel the game is fairly well balanced right now. You put equal gear and equal skill up against each other you will have very good fights. Some classes are better vs others yes...but nobody is outragously better then the other 1v1. The issue right now with all of the fotm rerolls is that you have teams of pt or maras rolling thru wzs. There is very little you can do against those groups unless you have awesome heals and a similiar make up including sents and vans.

 

So...please don't take away my gunslingers abilities :D

 

How are you loosing to PT? Pyros or Tanks? What's your spec? The only problematic matchups are Marksmanship vs Tank, and Lethality without ballistic dampers vs Pyro. In any other matchup, the sniper should always win.

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i beat sniper/gs all the time there saber fodder for a sin/shadow tank. iI have not found one good sniper/gs that can kill my tank before i kill them while using cyber tech grenades and all my stuns. I end up with 3/4 health and the sniper dead. ya we cant take sniper no sir. lol cc is your friend i can cc more then any sniper/gs any day

 

i think after the tank assassin nerf i have a very good chance against you, even after you open on me from invisibility. the reason for your success is that you fought many snipers that dont have a clue about force shroud, deflection, harnessed darkness.

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How are you loosing to PT? Pyros or Tanks? What's your spec? The only problematic matchups are Marksmanship vs Tank, and Lethality without ballistic dampers vs Pyro. In any other matchup, the sniper should always win.

 

I am marksman, and I ussually lose the fights when I am on CD's our caught off gaurd. There high opening burst is to much for me (I am not fully geared yet) In a straight up 1v1 against equal gear/skill I will in the majority...but we aren't talking about open world equal footing fights. We are talking about wz, were all things aren't always equal :)

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I can kill full augmented Warhero sages in 3-4

 

So can most classes.

 

So theres not really a problem then. I was just replying to the person saying it's impossible.

 

 

Heh, well, the Sages might beg to differ :p

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I am marksman, and I ussually lose the fights when I am on CD's our caught off gaurd. There high opening burst is to much for me (I am not fully geared yet) In a straight up 1v1 against equal gear/skill I will in the majority...but we aren't talking about open world equal footing fights. We are talking about wz, were all things aren't always equal :)

 

Without CDs fully geared pyro's are hella tough, not impossible. I win regularly but Pyro Powertech is definitely the hardest match up for a sniper, imo.

 

Heh, well, the Sages might beg to differ :p

 

My main alt is a sorc so I've been on the receiving end too :#

Edited by Lithy
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I am marksman, and I ussually lose the fights when I am on CD's our caught off gaurd. There high opening burst is to much for me (I am not fully geared yet) In a straight up 1v1 against equal gear/skill I will in the majority...but we aren't talking about open world equal footing fights. We are talking about wz, were all things aren't always equal :)

 

Well i die to them too, when i am focused on interrupting the captures and bomb planting.

but 1vs1 we should always win, unless he has a line of sight obstruction within 10 meters from us.

 

The evasion itself delays his railshot rotation by 3 seconds, his thermal detonator is absorbed by ballistic dampers and shield probe. We have 2 knockbacks and 2 roots to keep him at distance from refreshfing his railshot CD with rocketpunch and flame burst. Oh and passive 20% defense against railshots.

 

There is really nothing a pt pyro can do against a good sniper.

against tanks we got target acquired which made our life easier. Our crits ignore his shield, and we can have 60% total armor penalty on ambush. I am not afraid of PT.

Edited by NoTomorrow
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I am marksman, and I ussually lose the fights when I am on CD's our caught off gaurd. There high opening burst is to much for me (I am not fully geared yet) In a straight up 1v1 against equal gear/skill I will in the majority...but we aren't talking about open world equal footing fights. We are talking about wz, were all things aren't always equal :)

 

This is the thing. I remember when I played my Guardian I used to hate snipers and thought they were unapproachable and unkillable, with "1000 abilities all of them knockbacks" as I used to tell people. Then I played a Gunslinger and found out its actually only 1 knockback - 2 for the casting spec - with cooldowns and situational limitations.

 

When you're on the other side, though, its easy to go up to a sniper, get knocked back and rooted, knocked back and rooted again, die, and think that that is something the class can do on demand in every situation. I think people really need to play other classes to appreciate them and realize that things really aren't as they seem on the other side. This goes for marauders, snipers, even powertechs.

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Well i die to them too, when i am focused on interrupting the captures and bomb planting.

but 1vs1 we should always win, unless he has a line of sight obstruction within 10 meters from us.

 

The evasion itself delays his railshot rotation by 3 seconda, his thermal detonator is absorbed by ballistic dampers and shield probe. We have 2 knockbacks and 2 roots to keep him at distance from refreshfing his railshot CD with rocketpunch and flame burst. Oh and passive 20% defense against railshots.

 

There is really nothing a pt pyro can do against a good sniper.

 

against tanks we got target acquired which made our life easier.

 

Again, this is 1 v 1. It's really pretty dumb to discuss class balance around 1 v 1, because things change entirely in a warzone with 14 other people to worry about.

 

All of that works great in theory until you don't have any of this stuff because you had to use it on a marauder 10 seconds earlier. Then, he gets in range, you're dotted, you're slowed, you're railshotted - 3 seconds later or not - game over.

Edited by Skolops
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Again, this is 1 v 1. It's really pretty dumb to discuss class balance around 1 v 1, because things change entirely in a warzone with 14 other people to worry about.

 

All of that works great in theory until you don't have any of this stuff because you had to use it on a marauder 10 seconds earlier. Then, he gets in range, you're dotted, you're slowed, you're railshotted - 3 seconds later or not - game over.

 

Same can be said about the PT, he can have thermal det on CD, be completel overheated. Saying that sniper is weak against PT because he had to fight a marauder before does not make him a weak class against PT.

 

Ballistic dampers i will always have unless i am still entrenched. And if i dont have any of my 12sec CDs available, well this is no longer a 1vs1 fight but a 1vs2.

Edited by NoTomorrow
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Same can be said about the PTm he can have thermal det on CD, be completel overheated. Saying that sniper is weak against PT because he had to fight a marauder before does not make him a weak class against PT.

 

No, the question is whether snipers need a nerf or not, and the answer is no, with the reason being that all of that great damage they can do is pretty worthless when they don't have a team to support them well enough that they don't have 15 deaths in the game.

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No, the question is whether snipers need a nerf or not, and the answer is no, with the reason being that all of that great damage they can do is pretty worthless when they don't have a team to support them well enough that they don't have 15 deaths in the game.

 

The reason why snipers dont need a nerf is not because of the individual matchups, they are all perfectly fine. Sniper is probably the only class that can scale exponentially well with the team. If the team is crap and does not pressure enemy then sniper is useless. Get me a skilled marauder that takes all the attention to himself, and i can decimate everyone.

 

Put me into a team of bad players, and i cannot carry them to victory alone, no matter how many i kill.

A PT however can have a greater impact on a bad team.

Edited by NoTomorrow
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That CC immunity only comes every minute and you need to predict when to use it properly. You can't activate it when you're already CCed, you know. It's really only useful when an operative or someone is dumb enough to get close enough that you can see him in stealth before he starts his attack. Otherwise, CCs come too unexpectedly to be of any use. I think that, as people tend to do and shouldn't when discussing balance, that you're considering a one on one. Sure, in a 1v1 the sniper will pop his entrench and be in very good shape. In a warzone, though, a CC can come from anywhere at any time.

 

Now apart from that useful but limited skill, its much harder for a sniper to deal with CCs than other classes. They're very squishy, and very slow. He can't break a stun and use his resilience like a Shadow, run away like a Sage, leap somewhere like a Sentinel, or what have you. The melee classes all tend to have several pretty good CCs - especially Juggernauts/Guardians, so it's very hard for a sniper to safely use his break on any one of them. Yes, its hard on the melee class too if the sniper has his knockbacks and root on cooldown, but if he does not or if the melee gets any support from even one other player, that sniper's day is done.

 

A good sniper can put up 800 k in a voidstar if he's left alone or has good heals. If he doesn't, he's going to struggle mightily.

 

Snipers/Gunslingers should eat every non-stealth melee class (well, the two of them) for breakfast, they are basically designed for it. Especially as those melee classes DO NOT have pretty good CC, with the exception of Juggernaut/Guardian TANKS. But tanks only.

 

Their bane are the stealth classes, that pop out from stealth and do huge burst on them. But they can have Entrench up 20 seconds out of 60 - that is the best defense against CC that any class has in the game.

 

EDIT: I don't think they should be nerfed, before anyone assumes so.

Edited by Siorac
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