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Concealment and Lethality Operative/Scrapper and Ruffian Scoundrel Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Concealment and Lethality Operative/Scrapper and Ruffian Scoundrel Set Bonus Discussion
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Triipp's Avatar


Triipp
07.14.2015 , 04:04 PM | #11
6 pc bonus is really the one that only matters for me, the other 2 set bonuses don't seem very game changing like the the jugg vengeance saberthrow for instance.

Energy management aint that hard except when you don't use your corrosive dart when you should, which if you open hard you gotta wait for energy to go back up or you will starve, so i guess a 2 or 4pc corrosive dart energy cost reduction would be pretty great for easier energy management...

fragnor's Avatar


fragnor
07.14.2015 , 04:28 PM | #12
2pc small alacrity buff
4pc give Carbine burst/ Blaster Volley a 270 degree arc and actually hit everything in its path
6pc allow the autocrit to be used on Back blast/ Lethal strike

I have asked the Devs to respond to another post about the Carbine Burst/ Blaster Volley animation and cone in another post but have been ignored so I figure that they are supposed to look as this post so maybe they will respond with this post.

DarthZaul's Avatar


DarthZaul
07.14.2015 , 04:30 PM | #13
They are good as they are for concealment. The 4 piece is maybe a bit pointless because operatives don't have energy issues since 3.0.

TyrannisWP's Avatar


TyrannisWP
07.14.2015 , 07:13 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthZaul View Post
They are good as they are for concealment. The 4 piece is maybe a bit pointless because operatives don't have energy issues since 3.0.
The 2 piece and the 4 piece are pointless.
Entity

Loki_'s Avatar


Loki_
07.14.2015 , 10:31 PM | #15
Ruffian 6 piece should have 2 charges like slingers smugglers luck bonus...

The spec is lacking compared to the slinger version, under performs in both pvp and pve mainly due to the fact there is no surge bonus on any of its talents dots are weak spread mechanic is terrible and all the dps of the spec is loaded into 1 ability, brutal shots.

It was skimmed over in 3.0 poorly and its embarrassing that the spec hasn't been sorted as a whole. Yet you have changed sorc 3-4 times now and made changed to sin and PT multiple times and left this spec one of the worst most useless spec for over 6 months

Whojoo's Avatar


Whojoo
07.15.2015 , 05:24 AM | #16
So first setbonus.
I am gonna say that I like them and think that they do not need any adjustment.
2pc: Every dicipline has this. Some minor addition that I do not care about really.
4pc: Undervalued bonus. I play Lethality and use Lethal Strike a lot and I barrely energy cap. Think I had 20 uses in a recent parse. That means 40 energy saved. Obviously I must have had some energy cap in there (adrenaline probe) so some wasted energy, but I would dare to say that 30-ish from that saved energy was effectivly used for other abilities instead of free fillers.
6pc: Undervalued for Lethality. People mention it should be on Lethal Strike instead. My numbers show otherwise.

This is some ToS sm I did this weekend I think. All numbers are averages and rounded.
I do not have the 6pc bonus yet.
Average per activation numbers are taken from Star Parse.
Malaphar
CA normal: 6836 - CA crit: 9989 - Damage increase: 3153
LS normal: 8705 - LS crit 10644 - Damage increase: 1939
CA wins, although damage boost from Malaphar makes this unfair I think.

Walkers
CA normal: 5876 - CA crit: 8789 - Damage increase: 2913
LS normal: 7132 - LS crit 8599 - Damage increase: 1467

Underlurker
CA normal: 6179 - CA crit: 8658 - Damage increase: 2506
LS normal: 7239 - LS crit 9156 - Damage increase: 1917

Commanders
skipped because I often used CA with just 1 DoT. This means that the average damage of CA is way lower than it would have been.
I can do math and stuff, but dont feel like calculating the possible average.

Revan
CA normal: 5677 - CA crit: 8330 - Damage increase: 2653
LS normal: 6801 - LS crit 8745 - Damage increase: 1944

While these averages cannot be 100% accurate, I do think that they represent the result very well. The damage addition on CA (Corrosive Assault) is greater than it would have been on Lethal Strike. This assumes both abilities used as often as possible.
Keep in mind that delaying Lethal Strike for a stealthed crit one results in the following losses:
- Less Lethal Strike uses, means less 20% damage bonus for DoTs uptime.
- Less uses means also that the auto crit would have to compensate for the lost damage.
- Chances of wasting an auto crit proc because of the delays.

I seriously doubt that putting the auto crit on Lethal Strike would compensate for those losses.
Quote: Originally Posted by kvandertulip View Post
The 4-piece and the 6-piece are kind of lackluster for Ruffian. Energy management is too easy for the 4-piece to matter, and you use Brutal Shots so many times in a minute, that one being an autocrit is pretty meaningless. Maybe make Point Blank Shot be the autocrit?
Yes you use CA way more often so you won't see any drastic chance in the crit %, but it is the better option damage wise.
Ofcourse this assumes that all 3 Corrosive Assault ticks crit, since they are called the same.

Quote: Originally Posted by Loki_ View Post
Ruffian 6 piece should have 2 charges like slingers smugglers luck bonus...
Slingers got 1 extra crit per minute, just like everyone else. Smuggler's Luck auto crit has been part of the Slinger since 1.0 if my memory serves me right. (although 3.0 changed the abilities that crit).
Giving Ruffian 2 charges means that it gets 2 auto crits per minute from the setbonus which is 1 more than all the other diciplines.

Quote: Originally Posted by Loki_ View Post
The spec is lacking compared to the slinger version, under performs in both pvp and pve mainly due to the fact there is no surge bonus on any of its talents dots are weak spread mechanic is terrible and all the dps of the spec is loaded into 1 ability, brutal shots.
First of all, yes I do think Ruffian needs some love. Probably using the old bug as a standard feature would help alot. (the bug that would let that one ability tick twice on Brutal Shots internal ticks).
You do not need a surge bonus to be able to perform well.
I personally feel that the damage of the DoTs are fine. Although I would not mind a slight boost in the dicipline itself for DoT damage. Like I said, I do think Ruffian needs some love.
And I have to say that the spread mechanic feels a lot better now. Besides the cone being awefull every now and then ofcourse.

It is true that most damage is directly from Brutal Shots. However I would argue that it does not matter. It is a single target dicipline and Brutal Shots might win on the scoreboard, its reliance on the majority of your other abilities make it so I do not care. It would be nothing without them so indirectly the other abilities contribute as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by Loki_ View Post
It was skimmed over in 3.0 poorly and its embarrassing that the spec hasn't been sorted as a whole. Yet you have changed sorc 3-4 times now and made changed to sin and PT multiple times and left this spec one of the worst most useless spec for over 6 months
Sorc was generally just a nerf.
Assassin depends on the dicipline you play. Hatred hates it, Deception and Darkness are somewhat happier.
PT needed a buff.

Again yes we need some love. But calling it "one of the worst most useless spec for over 6 months" is overdoing it.
The Red Eclipse
Republic Enforcers Suddenly Taken Over

Loki_'s Avatar


Loki_
07.15.2015 , 08:39 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Whojoo View Post
Again yes we need some love. But calling it "one of the worst most useless spec for over 6 months" is overdoing it.
From your own post

Malphar your only 1400 dps above what a PT tank does on that fight.

Walkers 1000 dps behind a good PT SIN or mara

Underlurker 2k behind a PT

Commanders I do more dmg tanking right side in dps gear

Cant really comment on your revan pull as I dont know how many stacks u had to get cleansed on 1st phase or weather your in or out of shield for grenades on hk.

The spec is not performing as well as other melee dps specs and never has been since 3.0

Whojoo's Avatar


Whojoo
07.15.2015 , 10:57 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Loki_ View Post
From your own post

Malphar your only 1400 dps above what a PT tank does on that fight.

Walkers 1000 dps behind a good PT SIN or mara

Underlurker 2k behind a PT

Commanders I do more dmg tanking right side in dps gear

Cant really comment on your revan pull as I dont know how many stacks u had to get cleansed on 1st phase or weather your in or out of shield for grenades on hk.

The spec is not performing as well as other melee dps specs and never has been since 3.0
1. Operative is not my main. I know how to do everything in theory and on a dummy, but my experience with operative as dps in ops is limited.

2. These fights were Story Mode

3. My gear is 186/192 with 192 MH and 198 OH.

4. PT is OP at Underlurker. They "cheat" with their utilities for extra dps. So a comparrison with a PT on lurker is kind of invalid.

I am not saying that I could not have hit more, because I could have. Although considering my gear and experience I am quite pleased with my result on Walkers.
But you could've seen from my damage that I do not wear 198 BiS stuff and I have a feeling you did compare me with 198 BiS people.

I just grabbed a recent ops to see if the 6pc on Lethal Strike would be stronger than on CA or not.

Now to respond to some bosses:
Malaphar - I had to step out of the circle to help on adds, so lost stacks.
Walkers - pleased with result
Underlurker - Probably could have hit more and probably will if I could solo an add.
Commanders - I suck at this fight, no matter the class/spec.
Revan - Could have pushed for more, but had to heal a bit in P2 + revive a healer who was somewhere in the distance. But still, I could have pushed for more and I was aiming for a 3k minimum, prefered a bit higher.

Look I do think we need some love, which is one thing we agree on. But I am certain that an experience Lethality Operative should be able to pull his own weight in the majority of the fights.
The Red Eclipse
Republic Enforcers Suddenly Taken Over

Damaind's Avatar


Damaind
07.15.2015 , 12:33 PM | #19
To put it simple...you can change the SB all you want but it wont make a difference. Operatives are behind every other melee dps in numbers and utility (tanks sometimes too!) since the removal of certain abilities. I'm not asking for the abilities back but compensation is needed for the loss... were simple behind....

royhenderson's Avatar


royhenderson
07.15.2015 , 04:05 PM | #20
The huge mob fight right before bulo, i've seen VG tanks do 8k spamming their farts (explosive surge).

A scoundrel would be lucky to get anything above 4k spamming blaster volley as a dps with full 198.