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Am I giving up too soon?


AwkwardGinger's Avatar


AwkwardGinger
12.29.2012 , 06:25 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Mattmonkey View Post
I am also tossing up between 2x EWH or 1x EWH + 1x DG clicky also the DG proc relic is not great.

RE stats - I agree however Crit is best between 32% - 33% this has been tested by a couple of people - Drop crit to 32.5% fully raid buffed and replace with power your dps will go up a bit.

cheers for the good thread

Lyrik
There is no question about having the DG clicky; the passive power is nice on trash, but in a build like Vigilance which suffers so badly on burst in a game that has millions of hardcore burst phases, then the DG clicky is invaluable. TFB HM is full of burn phases, and most of them occur after 30%, with the exception of Kephess the Undying. Clicking DG relic + Exotech attack Adrenal, and with Inspiration up, here come the 7k Dispatches!

As for the DG elemental relic, I'm going to personally evaluate its effectiveness for myself. There is a point where you have to stop listening to the forums and do for yourself; this is one of those moments. The DG Elemental proc vs EWH passive power is being debated in another thread, so titled "Vigilance Relics."

As for the crit, I had not heard that. However, it sounds perfectly reasonable; I think I'll give it a try.

Mattmonkey's Avatar


Mattmonkey
12.29.2012 , 12:47 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AwkwardGinger View Post
There is no question about having the DG clicky; the passive power is nice on trash, but in a build like Vigilance which suffers so badly on burst in a game that has millions of hardcore burst phases, then the DG clicky is invaluable. TFB HM is full of burn phases, and most of them occur after 30%, with the exception of Kephess the Undying. Clicking DG relic + Exotech attack Adrenal, and with Inspiration up, here come the 7k Dispatches!
The clicky is better by 14 power if you use it every time it cools down. if you save it for burn phases it is considerably worse. So there is a question.

I am not sure yet that having a little extra on burn phases is worth it at all. If you get lucky and proc an extra MS that is far more DPS than the clicky will ever give you - however if you proc an MS with the clicky up then thats great. because our dps is bursty but unpredictable it is probably better to go 2x EWH but like i said im still tossing it up.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
12.29.2012 , 01:49 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Mattmonkey View Post
The clicky is better by 14 power if you use it every time it cools down. if you save it for burn phases it is considerably worse. So there is a question.

I am not sure yet that having a little extra on burn phases is worth it at all. If you get lucky and proc an extra MS that is far more DPS than the clicky will ever give you - however if you proc an MS with the clicky up then thats great. because our dps is bursty but unpredictable it is probably better to go 2x EWH but like i said im still tossing it up.
That's a poor example of why the clicky relic is important in burst phases.

A better example is a fight like Nightmare EC, where you might have the overall DPS needed for the fight, but you need extreme burst on the walker to make sure it goes down in 3 tries.

Another good example, Kephess in HM TFB... again, overall DPS is probably fine, but you want to make sure you maximize your DPS when Kephess falls from the pillars.

There's several other examples like this as well. Basically, HM TFB and Nightmare EC are full of burst phases, and I can't see any reason one wouldn't find excellent use out of a clicky relic on them, even if you didn't use it on cooldown and your overall DPS dropped by a marginal amount. The number on the parser isn't what matters, that's for e-peens, what actually matters is that you did enough DPS to beat enrage, and then you did extra DPS to push through burst phases when required (datacores on operator 9, soft enrage on writhing horror, beating 2nd double destruction on Stormcaller... so many examples to choose from).

Mattmonkey's Avatar


Mattmonkey
12.29.2012 , 08:02 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
That's a poor example of why the clicky relic is important in burst phases.

A better example is a fight like Nightmare EC, where you might have the overall DPS needed for the fight, but you need extreme burst on the walker to make sure it goes down in 3 tries.

Another good example, Kephess in HM TFB... again, overall DPS is probably fine, but you want to make sure you maximize your DPS when Kephess falls from the pillars.

There's several other examples like this as well. Basically, HM TFB and Nightmare EC are full of burst phases, and I can't see any reason one wouldn't find excellent use out of a clicky relic on them, even if you didn't use it on cooldown and your overall DPS dropped by a marginal amount. The number on the parser isn't what matters, that's for e-peens, what actually matters is that you did enough DPS to beat enrage, and then you did extra DPS to push through burst phases when required (datacores on operator 9, soft enrage on writhing horror, beating 2nd double destruction on Stormcaller... so many examples to choose from).
fair comment my post was a bit of a swipe at the unpredictability of vig burst.

I agree using the clicky is a must on any encounter where your raid needs the extra DPS to beat the burn phase when thats the thing stopping success. This is balanced with beating the enrage timer where you would either use the clicky every 2 min or prefer the EWH.

What im saying is that when the encounters dont line up with the 2 min timer on the clicky you will spend a lot of time putting out less DPS so that you can click at the point in the encounter where you need to. On Kaphess it is easy the trash is not hard and the walker phases are more than 2 min apart so its a no brainer. On many other fights you need to save your clicky so you spend most of the fight not clicking so you got it for the burn phase.

When there is an enrage timer you have to judge what is more important beating the burn or beating the enrage - if you can juggle the 2 min windows so you do both cool... Clicky every day... otherwise i might take the EWH where i can focus on my rotation and not worry about deviding the fight into 2 min windows. But it depends on what is needed.

mykaelmjr's Avatar


mykaelmjr
12.30.2012 , 03:06 AM | #15
Thank you all for the amazing input. Ginger, I will add you in game when you're online next! It's great to see that a lot of players support guardian dps. I am still deciding between the two but it really feels like a guardian is what I should be playing. I really appreciate the constructive feedback all of you have given and I look forward to keeping this threat going to show future guardians that we can dps and do it well!