!! Rant Alert !!

So I've been trying, really hard(more than I'd like to), to play Regs and be entertained/amused and I can be honest... It's complete bullcr*p.

I mean, I understand, it is just casual games, meant to chill and not get overworked on it.

Still I really think like "Is it really that hard to do objectives? You can still do damage/kills that way. Hell, most of the times you can even do more WHILE doing objective because they(the objectives) are (or were) usually like honey for hungry bears."

This runs through my mind whenever I see the teammates doing literally nothing but being parse dummies for the other team and vice versa. How can one even have fun that way? :eek:

I mean people play for fun, I can get behind that but how the hell can they find that stuff fun?

Just yesterday I had a match where 4 players lost a CAPPED objective against 1 sin. Not a group of players or a lucky flashbang from an operative but an assassin that didn't sap anyone. I question myself "How did that even happen? Why were there no calls? How come none of you 4 saw the assassin?"

Or another example would be this: Ancient Hypergate map. One team has 3 healers and 1 tank against a full dps(because praise Bioware for the excellent balance system and I am gosh darned sure there were no tank/healer leavers). The team with DPS only manages to win 7XX - 0 because the other team was doing literally nothing but stay at mid and mindlessly butcher my team (I was in the DPS team). I was but a spectator seeing everything unfold.

My team was horrible for just attacking the tank( who the hell knows why but yeah) and some unlucky guy that was far from the healers and the other team was just bad for not even trying.

Again I make this question: How do you find this fun? How is this mindless killing even fun for you?

So, after all of this, I question you all. Should regs even have objective 8v8s? Is there a purpose for these warzones if these 'matches' end up just mindless killing?

People complain about arenas popping up since its just killing but when objective maps appear, they do cr*p nothing but treating them as if its arenas. Just pure nonsense!!!!!!!!!

As unbelievable as it may sound, I have far more fun in Team/Solo Ranked or Low Level PvP than Level 70 Regs PvP.

PS: Yes, there is the 5% - 10% games where, for some reason, both teams do objectives and I gosh darn have fun on them but still, my point stands.

Also, I don't exactly get super angry but its that sensation of being annoyed upon witnessing that

If they remove 8v8, I will leave the game and I’m sure many will follow. Not everyone likes the 4v4 arena format.

As imperfect as 8v8 is, it’s still preferable to 4v4

If they remove 8v8, I will leave the game and I’m sure many will follow. Not everyone likes the 4v4 arena format.

As imperfect as 8v8 is, it’s still preferable to 4v4

^ What Totem said.

Well, except I'll still be around doing PvE, but will stop doing PvP altogether. The lack of 8v8 in lowbies/mids has already made me stop que'ing while levelling.

Faster pops for content I don't enjoy was not an improvement to the game. Whether the arena players want to aknowledge it or not, when the players who only like warzones stop que'ing for reg's then the arena pops get slower.

If they remove 8v8, I will leave the game and I’m sure many will follow. Not everyone likes the 4v4 arena format.

As imperfect as 8v8 is, it’s still preferable to 4v4

I mean, I get it. I also prefer 8v8 over arenas but going with the crap of "hurrdurr, arenas is annoying, is just killing" but then they nothing but killing in the objective based regs. Might as well just treat that as arenas, honestly.

Get out, no seriously, get out.

I'm still to this day pretty livid that 4v4 is even a thing. We lost 8v8 ranked for a crappy format that completely ruined the class balance as BW tried to cater to the more popular solo queue (in comparison to the group ranked) giving classes all kinds of self sustainability. So many classes now have some kind of self heal, some kind of speed movement, being able to cast while on the run.....All this nonsense because of 4v4.

This game was significantly more balanced and almost every class was completely viable in 8v8. 4v4 pretty much ruined class design as BW tried to make everyone play the same.

Get out, no seriously, get out.

 

I'm still to this day pretty livid that 4v4 is even a thing. We lost 8v8 ranked for a crappy format that completely ruined the class balance as BW tried to cater to the more popular solo queue (in comparison to the group ranked) giving classes all kinds of self sustainability. So many classes now have some kind of self heal, some kind of speed movement, being able to cast while on the run.....All this nonsense because of 4v4.

 

This game was significantly more balanced and almost every class was completely viable in 8v8. 4v4 pretty much ruined class design as BW tried to make everyone play the same.

Right... "get out".

Honestly, 8v8s, at the moment, are in an embarrassing level never seen before.

People don't do crap in them 90% - 95%. I already stopped caring the moment I see my team doesn't call a single thing about objectives.

Huttball (specially Vandin)? One team just lets the other run the ball go along that the other team stops scoring altogether to also farm numbers.

Ancient Hypergate? People call the pylons after losing them, constantly.

Yavin/Civil War? Exactly the same

Novare Coast, for some reason, is still a thing because you have the symbol that "shares" the colours from both teams which, somehow, makes people do some objectives.

Voidstar also works just fine, for some strange reason, as well.

Those games where there are players just deathmatching are indeed annoying, but in my experience most games have at least a few players playing objectives, and that is usually enough to find enjoyment. Also writing in ops chat and reminding ppl to do objectives seems to work somewhat sometimes.

I rarely leave games, but there do occur those games where the team is so completely derp and not listening to any tactical suggestions, that I can't take it anymore. Thankfully those game are rare enough that overall I get a lot of enjoyment from warzones. Usually the people I see derping the most are mainly ranked arena players.

Most games are between fun and ok, and some times we get those reeeeeeally amazing even games that just give so much happiness.

So no, wzs should definitely not be removed.

They are the thing, along with story custscenes/dialogues, that I enjoy the most, still.

I don't like yolo ranked because it's too arbitrary and toxic. Team ranked can be a lot of fun with friends, but none of my friends are currently interested in it.

8v8 ranked was more fun however. If dsync were to be fixed, they could maybe bring back 8v8 ranked and advertise for the game and bring in previous and new players.

Right... "get out".

 

Honestly, 8v8s, at the moment, are in an embarrassing level never seen before.

People don't do crap in them 90% - 95%. I already stopped caring the moment I see my team doesn't call a single thing about objectives.

 

Huttball (specially Vandin)? One team just lets the other run the ball go along that the other team stops scoring altogether to also farm numbers.

Ancient Hypergate? People call the pylons after losing them, constantly.

Yavin/Civil War? Exactly the same

Novare Coast, for some reason, is still a thing because you have the symbol that "shares" the colours from both teams which, somehow, makes people do some objectives.

Voidstar also works just fine, for some strange reason, as well.

This happens in ANY game and is certainly not a justification to remove a game mode. You know how often in Overwatch I run into players who ignore the team composition, ignore the payload and just do anything and everything except do teamwork and objectives in a RANKED match? And this isn't even like low ranks, this is diamond tier where people are supposed to be pretty good players.

Pugs are pugs and that is all there is to it. It is why I always go out of my way to get a team together over solo queuing in almost any pvp game.

• Find some good players
  
• Team up with them.
  
• Stomp all over the people who can't cap, call, respond, just DM or can't play objectives.
  

I'm sure 4 people playing sensibly without complete jerks making up the rest of the team could easily beat 8 solo players in a PuG.

Most people are flattered if they are asked to team up with another competent player.

In SWBF2, there is a game mode called HVV (heroes versus villians). It is 4v4 while everyone plays as an iconic hero. Spawn time after death is 10 seconds. At any given moment one hero and one villain are targeted and killing them gives your team a point. Once a target is down 2 new targets are selected (if the hero target dies the villian target is no longer the target). It is basically a 4v4 TDM but the slight objective there is that you benefit more from focusing one guy rather than focusing another. Yet, even though the objective is still simply to kill people and the only specification is to be slightly more selective (either everyone harassing your target, or their target, or the guy who guards they target), I very often see my 3 teammates attempt to gank a random poor enemy while the target and the other 2 are ganking me, who is the target! Why do this absolute useless excuses for players focus the one and only guy which is far from either target and is basically the only one not worth killing? Because of tunnel vision, simple-mindedness or whatever.

My point is, the fact that players sometimes choose to suck and not play the game mode as intended will always happen. Even in point and shoot action-packed game when the objective is already KILL KILL KILL, they will manage to mess objective up.

If the devs would give in to them and remove all game modes but TDM or maybe some new FFA killfest, the result will be that the future of all video games will be "fortnite star wars style", "fortnite battlefield style" etc. and then at some point some people will realize that if there is nothing more than killing, MMO (target and roll) is always inferior to point and shoot, and MMO PVP will die forever.

If they remove 8v8, I will leave the game and I’m sure many will follow. Not everyone likes the 4v4 arena format.

As imperfect as 8v8 is, it’s still preferable to 4v4

I think the OP's point is why even have an 8v8 objective based PvP format if players aren't going to actually play the objectives. It's a fair question that has been asked countless times over the last year or so. This was also a HUGE pet peeve of mine, and I championed against it both here on the forums and in the game. I feel that we have two different PvP formats for a reason. If you want to deathmatch (kill farm to the exclusion of objectives), then you do 4v4 Ranked. If you want to play objectives (which necessarily involves killing other players, just not exclusively), you do regular 8v8 WZs. This debate has been raging for well over a year now between what I affectionately refer to as Ranked refugees (players who enjoy the Ranked format but have become disenfranchised with it due to cheating, win trading, exploiting, etc.) and traditional WZ players. For me personally, it sucked the fun out of WZs when my premade are the only ones playing the objectives, and then we end up losing the match because the other half of our team was too busy kill farming to stop a cap, intercept a ball carrier, defend a node, and so on.

Frankly, I see this as a terminal cancer that is aggressively spreading. It also spread to my own guild (which is one of the reasons I left it after 5+ years of being in that guild). No amount of dialogue is convincing these players to see reason, and Bioware is unwilling to implement mechanics to control aberrant player activity. Which is truly unfortunate because at least in my opinion, the days of 8v8 Ranked in this game were among the best PvP I've ever experienced in this game before, or since. I completely agree with Raansu that the 4v4 Ranked format invariably hurt the game's ability to balance classes, and most of the subset of players it pandered to have either left the game after the train wreck that is 4v4 Solo/Team Ranked unfolded season after season or who migrated to regular WZs to bring their preferred PvP format there. The reason I think it's spreading is because more traditional WZ players are giving up out of frustration. Why defend a node if you call INC and no one comes to help because they are too busy farming kills at mid? As more players deathmatch, less players are willing to play the objectives as those WZ formats are intended.

I will reply to a few people in same post. Don't feel like filling the page up unnecessarily.

If they remove 8v8, I will leave the game and I’m sure many will follow. Not everyone likes the 4v4 arena format.

As imperfect as 8v8 is, it’s still preferable to 4v4

At the moment, 8v8s objective maps look more like arenas but with more people, so honestly, its the same, really...

You're simply playing a full deathmatch game 90% of the time.

This happens in ANY game and is certainly not a justification to remove a game mode. You know how often in Overwatch I run into players who ignore the team composition, ignore the payload and just do anything and everything except do teamwork and objectives in a RANKED match? And this isn't even like low ranks, this is diamond tier where people are supposed to be pretty good players.

 

Pugs are pugs and that is all there is to it. It is why I always go out of my way to get a team together over solo queuing in almost any pvp game.

+

• Find some good players
  
• Team up with them.
  
• Stomp all over the people who can't cap, call, respond, just DM or can't play objectives.
  

 

I'm sure 4 people playing sensibly without complete jerks making up the rest of the team could easily beat 8 solo players in a PuG.

 

Most people are flattered if they are asked to team up with another competent player.

Want to know what happens when I do that?

It becomes 2 types of games.

1 - Either your team(either if your premade is enough or its actually your premade + other 4 players team) stomps the other in both objective and kill wise and so the ones you're against stop fighting altogether;

2 - It ends up in your team being gutted because, a lot of the times, the other half of your team is doing nothing but killing and giving no cr*ps about the purpose of the warzone, thus losing because of others in the most stupid way possible.

Both of these situations make the just boring and I feel like quitting it even if I win. It is just not fun, at all. I don't care if I win or lose. I'd like to have tight and challenging matches.

I did wrote back there where I had the case of my team just being completely stomped out by the other team but still "we" on because the other team didn't care. All I can think of is "how the f*cking hell do you even have fun doing this?"

I don't get it, honestly.

And, finally, the last point: I don't care if I am solo or not. What I'd like to see both teams actually trying to do the objective. Players even get more kills that way and it is more fun doing so. You get to learn more about yours and others' classes that way.

Now just killing? Please, go ranked for that. Stop making Regs a pit of boredom.

I have to legitimately play Low level PvP to actually have fun in Regs. The players there actually care about objectives and try hard, there's always a massive carnage. It ends up being fun for everyone. Hell, even new players there actually try doing the stuff, they aren't ashamed of asking tips and so on. Not like the dragged up sh*tties on Level 70 PvP that just walk up to the main battle and click buttons to do nothing but number farming.

Also, Mournblood, so far, seems to be the only one that can explain AND understand, at the very least partially, how I feel regarding the Regs warzones (page 2 of this thread and will be, most likely above this post).

In more details, here are the things I meant:

1 :

I think the OP's point is why even have an 8v8 objective based PvP format if players aren't going to actually play the objectives.

2 :

I feel that we have two different PvP formats for a reason. If you want to deathmatch (kill farm to the exclusion of objectives), then you do 4v4 Ranked. If you want to play objectives (which necessarily involves killing other players, just not exclusively), you do regular 8v8 WZs.

3 : Even the winning is boring because the other side was the same. They didn't try even if they had or not skilled players.

For me personally, it sucked the fun out of WZs when my premade are the only ones playing the objectives, and then we end up losing the match because the other half of our team was too busy kill farming to stop a cap, intercept a ball carrier, defend a node, and so on.

4 :

The reason I think it's spreading is because more traditional WZ players are giving up out of frustration. Why defend a node if you call INC and no one comes to help because they are too busy farming kills at mid? As more players deathmatch, less players are willing to play the objectives as those WZ formats are intended.

In SWBF2, there is a game mode called HVV (heroes versus villians). It is 4v4 while everyone plays as an iconic hero. Spawn time after death is 10 seconds. At any given moment one hero and one villain are targeted and killing them gives your team a point. Once a target is down 2 new targets are selected (if the hero target dies the villian target is no longer the target). It is basically a 4v4 TDM but the slight objective there is that you benefit more from focusing one guy rather than focusing another. Yet, even though the objective is still simply to kill people and the only specification is to be slightly more selective (either everyone harassing your target, or their target, or the guy who guards they target), I very often see my 3 teammates attempt to gank a random poor enemy while the target and the other 2 are ganking me, who is the target! Why do this absolute useless excuses for players focus the one and only guy which is far from either target and is basically the only one not worth killing? Because of tunnel vision, simple-mindedness or whatever.

I still consider as objective over the mindless killing that happen in regs, trust me.

My point is, the fact that players sometimes choose to suck and not play the game mode as intended will always happen. Even in point and shoot action-packed game when the objective is already KILL KILL KILL, they will manage to mess objective up.

What bothers me is that it doesn't feel like that choose to suck. It feels more like they enjoy, yet not enjoy, doing something that is just boring.

If the devs would give in to them and remove all game modes but TDM or maybe some new FFA killfest, the result will be that the future of all video games will be "fortnite star wars style", "fortnite battlefield style" etc. and then at some point some people will realize that if there is nothing more than killing, MMO (target and roll) is always inferior to point and shoot, and MMO PVP will die forever.

Honestly, atm, feels like its dead already. Check the post above this one and try to wrap around a bit.

Pugs are pugs. Been like this since day 1. None of your arguments justify removing objectives from a game mode most of us prefer.

Arena game mode in a bigger map *clap*

Arena game mode in a bigger map *clap*

Objective based pvp that you seem to think should be treated like arena because you clearly treat it as such and are probably horrible at pvp.

Comments in red are me replying -

I will reply to a few people in same post. Don't feel like filling the page up unnecessarily.

 

 

 

team is doing nothing but killing and giving no cr*ps about the purpose of the warzone, thus losing because of others in the most stupid way possible.

I cannot seem to recall when the devs ever stated that Warzones are not meant for fighting in equal measure.

 

Both of these situations make the just boring and I feel like quitting it even if I win. It is just not funI don't get it, honestly.

 

What's fun for who? I do believe that fun is something of a subjective nature not being shared by all.

 

 

Now just killing? Please, go ranked for that. Stop making Regs a pit of boredom.

 

Telling players who like to fight to go to play in an area of play that is riddled with cheating, win-trading, account buying, quece dodging and all around toxicity is an unreasonable suggestion that no one in their right mind would be okay with.

 

I have to legitimately play Low level PvP to actually have fun in Regs. The players there actually care about objectives and try hard.

 

The players there are like 15th level and have like 3 abilities total, that changes the landscape quite abit.

 

Stating something that's called a Warzone and actually grants awards for doing progressively more damage, healing, and protection is not about fighting too is just all kinds of dumb. Trying to dictate to others what 'is fun' and not fun, and what the majority seem to agree on is a good use for WZs is fairly stupid as well [i'm not calling you stupid, just using it in a general sense].

 

I get what you are saying in spirit though, if not in details, but you can't call something a Warzone and not expect people to fight. If you don't fight you die. If you don't fight you lose, if you don't fight, why let people even have weapons?Until they can get a handle on all the cheating and backhanded tactics that are employed in Ranked, you have to expect people will want to fight in Wzs. It's called Star Wars for a reason.

 

I'll be honest, and I think I've stated this before, and that is that the only reason I do Warzones is because I like to fight. You'll have to forgive me when I say I really and genuinely don't believe that WZs were not meant for fighting as a large component of the experience

I'm not sure if I am a deathmatcher or not, I don't think I am but that's really not for me to decide, that's for my peers to establish. I do not try to be the one carrying the ball, I do not try to be a lone defender. I don't seek out the objectives all on my own. Quite honestly, I suck at them. I try to make use of my strengths and try to facilitate others to accomplish them. Like running shotgun with the ball carrier, attacking nodes to take for my team,responding to calls for assistance, and peeling for healers when I can.

If that makes me a deathmatcher, so be it. - Clean up Ranked and make it fair, and 'me and the boys' will get out of your hair.

You might consider bringing the point up with the Devs because as near as I can tell, you don't give awards to people who are doing the things you don't want them to do and are trying to discourage.

I don't think they are trying to discourage us though. Awards for damage, healing, and protection is in and of it self proof that WZs were very much intended to have at least an equal showing in WZs as objectives. Certainly there is a level of compromise to the two playstyles. Too much of either tactics can be bad.

A little too much entitlement going on. Somebody really needs to get the leaflet BW sent out stating that Warzones are not for combat.

I'd hold my breath for it, but I hear that's a bad way to die.

This is what you get when you cross faction things up. IMPs caring more about winning by objectives than hurting people.

Friggen Jedi.

What if there was a premade that could always get the highest damage, protection and heals AND secure the win every game, even vs other dmg farm and obj premades?

I know I know, mind=blown.

Once more, replying to multiple people for the same reason as the previous one:

Objective based pvp that you seem to think should be treated like arena because you clearly treat it as such and are probably horrible at pvp.

Wish that was the truth but not at all. I'm the one who actually calls out of others for help and for not doing anything related to the purpose of the warzone. I still try to do the objectives until the end though.

I know I said that I stop doing them since it ends up being a waste of effort but I stop as in not relying on my team since I know nothing will happen. Why ask for help if no one answers?

I cannot seem to recall when the devs ever stated that Warzones are not meant for fighting in equal measure.

 

What's fun for who? I do believe that fun is something of a subjective nature not being shared by all.

I don't care if the skill between teams is unequal but at least I'd like to see my team AND the other trying. Not seeing something that people go there and do nothing but parsing.

Let me tell another example of a game I had yesterday:

Huttball, other team was just outright stomping mine in damage and kills but guess what, they didn't care about objectives. Mine did stuff at start, or tried, but after dying so much they actually stopped caring about the game, as well.

Only me and another guy ended up scoring 5 times. Even though I disgracefully ended up with 11 deaths(and I was the 4th with most deaths just so you see what the carnage it was) and the teammate that cooperated with me had 5. The 'enemy' team, at the end of the game decided to do a minute of objectives, scoring 3 balls in a single minute. They could have just ended the suffering straight away but no... They had to stall the game by farming kills and numbers, specially me and my friend over and over again, just stalling the game. And whenever they had the ball, they'd simply pass between each other or get rid of it and not scoring.

Now I ask you. Is this even fun? My team wasn't even trying anymore to do the proper game or even killing whatsoever. What was happening is not different than doing parses on dummies. If you were on the winning team, all you'd do is just smack people that don't even fight back anymore, or seemed that way.

I am pretty sure anyone would like, at least, some challenge. Even if you are relaxing/playing for fun.

I believe I don't need to ask what you think of the players on my team. Pretty sure they didn't like getting stomped (or I think they don't like) but for some reason they continued.

It was frustrating for the me and the other guy that as helping me since we were trying and most of the time not being able to do anything.

Telling players who like to fight to go to play in an area of play that is riddled with cheating, win-trading, account buying, quece dodging and all around toxicity is an unreasonable suggestion that no one in their right mind would be okay with.

I get this part but still, people complain about arenas for being just killing yet when it comes to 8v8s they do nothing else asides from that. And they complain about toxicity in Ranked but they end up being toxic in regs, as well. Hypocrisy right here.

The players there are like 15th level and have like 3 abilities total, that changes the landscape quite abit.

 

Stating something that's called a Warzone and actually grants awards for doing progressively more damage, healing, and protection is not about fighting too is just all kinds of dumb. Trying to dictate to others what 'is fun' and not fun, and what the majority seem to agree on is a good use for WZs is fairly stupid as well [i'm not calling you stupid, just using it in a general sense].

 

I get what you are saying in spirit though, if not in details, but you can't call something a Warzone and not expect people to fight. If you don't fight you die. If you don't fight you lose, if you don't fight, why let people even have weapons?Until they can get a handle on all the cheating and backhanded tactics that are employed in Ranked, you have to expect people will want to fight in Wzs. It's called Star Wars for a reason.

 

I'll be honest, and I think I've stated this before, and that is that the only reason I do Warzones is because I like to fight. You'll have to forgive me when I say I really and genuinely don't believe that WZs were not meant for fighting as a large component of the experience

Look, I don't mind the fight. I do like that aspect but why can't they do the killing WHILE doing objectives? I do that and it's not hard at all. Most of the times, I end up doing more 'numbers' that way. Pretty sure others would end up doing the same.

Also just because the level is lower or higher, doesn't mean it affects the "mindset" of doing the warzones. Far from that. More tools means more ways of doing stuff. If you honestly want to act all high and mighty in kills, Low level PvP is the perfect scenario. You can reach up to +50 kills super easy.

I'm not sure if I am a deathmatcher or not, I don't think I am but that's really not for me to decide, that's for my peers to establish. I do not try to be the one carrying the ball, I do not try to be a lone defender. I don't seek out the objectives all on my own. Quite honestly, I suck at them. I try to make use of my strengths and try to facilitate others to accomplish them. Like running shotgun with the ball carrier, attacking nodes to take for my team,responding to calls for assistance, and peeling for healers when I can.

If you do this, you're already a teamplayer and I like that. Now, if you didn't do anything but killing (as in mindless killing that doesn't matter whatsoever) then yes, that would be crap.

You might consider bringing the point up with the Devs because as near as I can tell, you don't give awards to people who are doing the things you don't want them to do and are trying to discourage.

I don't think they are trying to discourage us though. Awards for damage, healing, and protection is in and of it self proof that WZs were very much intended to have at least an equal showing in WZs as objectives. Certainly there is a level of compromise to the two playstyles. Too much of either tactics can be bad.

You can also be awarded for doing objectives and these can be done while doing the main activity which is killing. Again, I ask, how hard can this be?

What if there was a premade that could always get the highest damage, protection and heals AND secure the win every game, even vs other dmg farm and obj premades?

 

I know I know, mind=blown.

Then great. I'd find that awesome but I'd like to see both teams trying. Again, I don't mind losing or winning but I'd like to see people trying a bit at least. I mean, I hold cap points against 1 up to 3 players fairly easy and I call for help and no one comes helping. Obviously I end up dying and still no one comes. Do you think that's okay? You're putting effort but that effort is just thrown away like nothing. And best part is, you still get talked back by those same numberfarmers for losing the cap point even after you called for help. Tell me its not annoying, really...

What if there was a premade that could always get the highest damage, protection and heals AND secure the win every game, even vs other dmg farm and obj premades?

 

I know I know, mind=blown.

It used to be that way, particularly when 8v8 ranked existed. The removal of that game mode has led to people not caring about winning because there's no incentive. Newer players who weren't around then don't seem to realize this. Regs used to be a way to practice strats and coordination, though most guilds weren't confident enough to field a team (which eventually led to ranked 8s being removed).