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WHY did Bioware nerf the companions so much?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
WHY did Bioware nerf the companions so much?

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
11.19.2019 , 03:18 PM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
I would frame it differently. The problem for solo players is a combination of two factors -- the longer companion activation time and the Stat capping.

TL-DR: The companion timer nerf plus level synching makes old content less enjoyable, not necessarily more difficult. This impacts solo players disproportionately. I'm not worried about the base planetary or class missions so we are clear. I'm talking about former so-called group content that was 'more' soloable.

Let's stipulate at the outset that there are two ways to improve one's performance to complete content:

a) improve your understanding of your class / learning the encounters; and b) getting better gear.

The problem is right now that Option B, getting better gear, is limited because of Level Synching down. Pretty sure Rion, you know full well that this results in Stat capping and that certain gear stats become useless.

So where does that leave us? Yes, it is possible to still do that content we could before. In many cases, however, it's not a L2P issue -- it's an issue of annoyance. In my case, I play a lot of alts so it hasn't impacted me too severely yet, but I can assure you -- I avoid Section X, Oricon, etc. -- at least on non-stealth classes.

The longer-term impact for me is going to be on soloing Vet FPs. Now, one cay say (tritely), well Dasty, you aren't supposed to solo H4s or solo Vet FPs outside of faceroll Hammer Station. Fair enough, but that means content I could do before, I find far, far more annoying to do now. Encounters are lengthier because even if I know my rotations, CDs, etc., they are still essentially just HP sponges.

And what happens when they raise the gear Ilvl past 306? It will help only for the brand new content. It won't mean squat for everything pre-6.0.

The end result is that BW is offering me less variety of content than I'm willing to put up with because of the annoyance factor. Yes, that's my personal decision, but it hardly seems like i'm alone. And, well, when I run out of interesting, enjoyable content...(dunh, dunh, dunh!)

Dasty
Well said. I identify heavily with this. For me, it's not so much difficulty as it is boredom that is an issue. I'm pretty sure I mentioned this somewhere in some amount of detail while the changes were still on PTS, too.

The non-new parts of the game are very old and stale and repetitive and at least for me, one of the few things that makes them bearable solo (where they are doable for my skill level solo) is being able to pull out a DPS comp, to speed things up a bit, because this game apparently has an obsession with leaving things spongy, even when they are "technically" soloable, such as some H2 heroics.

Anything that makes it take longer to do just makes the already stale content that much less appealing. Frankly, Bioware should be paying me to replay their old, stale content. If it wasn't for (in my case) the idea of space barbie and farming credits to play space barbie, I probably wouldn't have bothered most of the time in the past, as it is. So for me, the motivation to bother was already very fragile and then they made things worse. Had they rejuvenated the old content somehow (though I can't imagine how) maybe I'd be more willing to put up with it. But they didn't... they just took the same old crap and tweaked it.

There's a well-known saying, "You can't put lipstick on a pig." Well some of the content kinda was a situation of lipstick on a pig before, imo. They just wiped off some of the lipstick. Now it's just more pig. Oink oink. And I didn't sign up to play in a pigpen. This is what happens when I make analogies after recently waking up. I have no idea where I'm going with this, but I think the rest of the post is to the point, so this analogy can go off the rails.
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Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
11.19.2019 , 06:09 PM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by MacCleoud View Post
As a solo player, I find the comps in a VERY similar place as they were. You just have to play a little smarter. Don't bounce into 10 mobs right off the bat. Hit attack on your comp before bounding in and that will take a couple of seconds off the prep time of the first heal. Solo Content is still super easy.
I'd say reasonably easy on my main a Sith Inq with lightning spec (yes, they still have suckfest DPS) and "super easy" on the other classes I've played since 6.0. For my lightning spec sorc I switched companions (I usually have Theron) however I've found Arcann is a way better companion for her than any of the others I've tried so far.

I the OP is flying into groups of mobs and expecting their companion to save the day, then that serves them right. Companions were altered in 6.0 to make the game a bit more challenging iirc from the PTS.

Those who don't want an easy run in pre kotfe flashpoints, just ditch the god bot; problem solved, however, if you need to farm gear, god bot and 50 influence companion set to damage is my choice.
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AndasKastor's Avatar


AndasKastor
11.19.2019 , 07:00 PM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
Uh, you said you play with your wife though... a lot of people play solo. Also, the differences can be subtle in my limited experience with the changes. You'll think it's all hunky dory and then it'll catch you off-guard on something you used to be ok in.

But honestly, casual is kind of a misnomer anyway. There's casual meaning hours put in and then there's casual meaning the mindset you have in how you play the game, and then there's your actual skill level. You can put few hours in and be highly skilled, you can have a casual mindset in how you play the game and be highly skilled, you can have a hardcore mindset in how you play the game and be mediocre at it, you can put in few hours and be low skilled. There's just so much more variation than the casual/elite or casual/hardcore dichotomy people like to do.

The bottom line is, some people are more skilled at the game than others. It's a spectrum. It may be you rank higher on the spectrum than you think you do. It's easy for people to have an inaccurate picture of how skilled they are and difficult to get an accurate one.
Full disclosure: my wife and I only play together on the weekends before lunch. When I play during the rest of the week it is all solo. We'll play probably 8 hours between Sat. and Sun. and I'll probably play 6 - 8 hours solo during the rest of the week.

I like your differentiation on casual and I agree that people can be more skilled at the game than others. There are some specs that I just can't seem to get and I am probably awful at them

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
11.20.2019 , 02:50 AM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by Goreshaga View Post
And yet they're listed in the "solo" activity tab...
As are the weeklies, which include the Section X H4...
First of all, they are still called H2s so this argument doesn't counter that.
Secondly, the solo tab gives you a weekly for the H2s. The Heroics themselves are not in the solo tab. It only takes you to the terminal.
Thirdly, you know that the group tab has set rules for groups and the H2 format wouldn't fit in that. You cannot queue for an ops unless you are 8 people and you cannot queue for a FP in the group tab unless you have 4 players. That wouldn't work for H2s as it is because you can do them with 1-4 players.

So really, people need to stop clutching at straws and realise that Heroics are harder content than normal quests and secondly that BioWare isn't really consistent in their terminology.

Because let's be honest, Veteran Mode has 3 meanings:
Veteran Mode KotFE/ET chapters mean solo content but harder than SM so HM solo content.
Veteran Mode FPs means role-neutral group content of Story Mode level
Veteran Mode Ops is HM group content that's not role neutral

And even with difficulty levels there is no consistency.

But to call heroics SM level content is just not true when you solo them by any of the definitions.
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sentientomega's Avatar


sentientomega
11.20.2019 , 07:20 AM | #195
Yes, they are in the solo tab; you're taken to the terminal, which lists the heroics. The terminal doesn't send you to another terminal with a "Thou shalt not solo these" tag on them, they are supposed to be soloable.

Unless BW actually comes out with a public statement saying that heroics aren't supposed to be soloable in any way, shape, or form, you're not going to convince me that they shouldn't be, just because you don't think they should be, which is how it's sounding, frankly.

No-one's equating Heroics with story content, but they're the only real solo grind we have. They need not to be more like NiM Ops...

H2=1 player, 1 companion, 1+1=2, which was something that was deliberately said some four years ago when revision of heroics first came up with 4.0.
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Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
11.20.2019 , 07:58 AM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by sentientomega View Post
Yes, they are in the solo tab; you're taken to the terminal, which lists the heroics. The terminal doesn't send you to another terminal with a "Thou shalt not solo these" tag on them, they are supposed to be soloable.
Please, I hate it when people confuse things themselves and then try to use their confusion as an argument. Of course they are soloable but that's not the same is it being designed as solo content or easy. Let's not forget that the thread here is about the OP claiming that SM means it should be easy for everyone.
Quote: Originally Posted by sentientomega View Post
Unless BW actually comes out with a public statement saying that heroics aren't supposed to be soloable in any way, shape, or form, you're not going to convince me that they shouldn't be, just because you don't think they should be, which is how it's sounding, frankly.
Again, they are soloable but they are not easy SM content as per the topic of this thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by sentientomega View Post
No-one's equating Heroics with story content, but they're the only real solo grind we have. They need not to be more like NiM Ops...
Again I've asked the OP what the content is he's struggling with that is SM. He hasn't been willing to share that. Someone else mentioned H2s and I dismissed those on the grounds of them not being intended as "easy SM" content which AGAIN is what the thread is about.
Quote: Originally Posted by sentientomega View Post
H2=1 player, 1 companion, 1+1=2, which was something that was deliberately said some four years ago when revision of heroics first came up with 4.0.
Which is odd since normal quests are also for 1 player and 1 companion so it makes no sense to make that distinction... but I'll accept that because BW does more illogical things in that respect. As long as you agree that Heroics do not fall under the header of "easy SM content" then we are on the same page as far as what this thread is about.
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sentientomega's Avatar


sentientomega
11.20.2019 , 08:05 AM | #197
I suppose that'd depend on how reasonable you're willing to be about how hard any solo grind should be...

You want it to be tough? You should get that, but not at my expense.

I want it easy? I should get that, but, likewise, not at your expense.

BW has all the tools it needs to expand the scope of actual difficulty options, it's about time they acted on that positively.

In my posts, I've listed some ways in which they could do that, and channeled other posters' ways.

You know, they could also just make GSI droids available to everyone, almost everywhere. It's not like anyone *has* to use it, but it'd be a nice backup.

But, you know what? Even if a system was in place so that as many players as possible could enjoy all the content in the way that each wanted, there would still be someone saying "Game is too easy", just to make trouble for those who get to enjoy things easier.

There is no reason to adopt an exclusionary attitude, it just isn't right. And for this game in particular, because it is Star Wars, and EA and the devs need to stop giving prospective new players and current casual/solo/casual solo players all the vibes of "you're about as welcome as waterborne disease" for that very reason of it being Star Wars.
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Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
11.20.2019 , 08:22 AM | #198
Heroics were designed to be a group activity, and were far more difficult to solo + comp before 4.0 (at level). This is also why you get more loot for being in a group doing heroics.
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tomius's Avatar


tomius
11.20.2019 , 08:28 AM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by sentientomega View Post
But, you know what? Even if a system was in place so that as many players as possible could enjoy all the content in the way that each wanted, there would still be someone saying "Game is too easy", just to make trouble for those who get to enjoy things easier.

There is no reason to adopt an exclusionary attitude, it just isn't right. And for this game in particular, because it is Star Wars, and EA and the devs need to stop giving prospective new players and current casual/solo/casual solo players all the vibes of "you're about as welcome as waterborne disease" for that very reason of it being Star Wars.
You seem to have a very paranoid attitude to people, thinking they are out to get you and spoil your fun.

Quite frankly every heroic is soloable in this game. At least to my knowledge. And I see no exclusionary attitude in this game. So not sure what your getting at.

Tbh, SWTOR has lost more veteran players and put off more new players with how easy the game is than it has lost them because of how "hard" it is.

Personally I've not noticed any difference with the companions. I still think they are way to powerful but I've been around since launch and enjoyed it when you had to gear them. Was very rewarding having a good geared companion and soloing harder content.
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sentientomega's Avatar


sentientomega
11.20.2019 , 08:39 AM | #200
Nice try, but your baiting attempt has failed.

The evidence of what I'm talking about is there for all to see, you just have to want to see it.
Aspie LGBT gamer: 162 (86 Start-at-60) characters, spread across Darth Malgus, Satele Shan and Star Forge, all at lvl 70!
Quote: Originally Posted by mrsrachelm View Post
LOL!!! Omg, that is the best analogy ever!