The F2P is a failure model. That is why SWTOR went from P2P to F2P... in less than one year...

Prove it.

You can't. But it would be hilarious to watch you try. Of course I know your response will be the usual resorting to attacking me instead of providing proof.

FACT: The market is dominated by the freemium business model now days. And it's not because it's a failure, it's because it is a successful model. The only mistake made by Bioware was thinking they could launch subscriber only in today's market and make it stick. Sorry pal... subscriber only business model is dead in MMOs. All you have left is a handful of old games with installed bases they can milk for subs until they twilight.

Well this went completely off topic in a hurry.

Well... what did you expect?

The thread title is catnip for those who hate the game and love to bash it in the forum.

BWEA probably thought TOR could be a "WoW killer." Eventually there will be a "WoW killer." Do you really see people playing WoW by the millions in 20 years?

The zombie apocalypse will be the WoW-Killer

I would have to disagree with your contention here. You have extrapolated out her assessment to meet your argument. She did nothing of the sort. She spoke of attitude, not opinion. She did not disparage or deride those that criticize the game but those that do so in a particular way. Pointing out a select aspect of a group does not encompass the entirety of the group.

I can respect your position, but this comment....

....dismal, degrading, whining, bickering posts that do nothing sometimes but cause chaos, destruction, hate, anger, rage, trolls, drama where there is none.

Whining is a direct insult. It is also highly charged and at BEST speculative. After all, the OPs post could qualify as whining. So can my post in reply...so can your post. That is the problem with using this type of juvenile vitriol.

It is a direct derision of those that deride the game and was intended exactly as that IMO. People that truly compliment the game rarely get this type of reaction that you see in this thread.

It was a trollish comment IMO. And flaming to boot. Without that comment, or at least something that was a bit more intelligent and mature like perhaps "rage filled combative posts that contribute little if anything to a constructive discussion for the sake of creating drama."

THAT is a fair statement that does not insult those that deride the game, but still makes an important point.

Well... what did you expect?

 

The thread title is catnip for those who hate the game and love to bash it in the forum.

I believe he meant for it to be a positive thread. Just because it USUALLY derails, doesn't mean we have to make it any worse.

Prove it.

 

You can't. But it would be hilarious to watch you try. Of course I know your response will be the usual resorting to attacking me instead of providing proof.

 

FACT: The market is dominated by the freemium business model now days. And it's not because it's a failure, it's because it is a successful model. The only mistake made by Bioware was thinking they could launch subscriber only in today's market and make it stick. Sorry pal... subscriber only business model is dead in MMOs. All you have left is a handful of old games with installed bases they can milk for subs until they twilight.

Honey, the proof is back on July 31st of last year when we got that call from EA saying SWTOR was going to the F2P model.

I have already proved my stance, and won. F2P saved this game from sinking and further. If it wasn't for that garbage model, this game would have failed. Except, it still failed. Over 2+ million players already agree with me. This game has a very bad reputation in the MMOverse.

Your "fact" is nothing but an unsubstantiated accusation used for your own personal agenda. Give it up. The switch to F2P was a good thing in order to keep this game alive, but it shows how badly this game did that it needs some garbage model just to keep itself afloat.

Well... what did you expect?

 

The thread title is catnip for those who hate the game and love to bash it in the forum.

It's also honey for those who defend the game and love to serve as apologists.

The F2P is a failure model. That is why SWTOR went from P2P to F2P... in less than one year...

 

Of course it isnt. No more than it is a failure of the entire market that hardcore players are leaving the market for more challenging games.

It is a sign of changing times. Yes, some games go F2P to avoid financial disaster, but going F2P is not automatically an indicator that a game is a failure.

I do, however, feel this game very much failed to reach it's target audience by designing the game with a very narrow restrictive vision that appealed to neither hardcore nor casual players. I personally feel that mistake is slowly being corrected.

I believe he meant for it to be a positive thread. Just because it USUALLY derails, doesn't mean we have to make it any worse.

This part of the OP....

dismal, degrading, whining, bickering posts that do nothing sometimes but cause chaos, destruction, hate, anger, rage, trolls, drama where there is none.

...makes me suspect otherwise. That is NOT how you attempt to turn things positive. That is how you invite conflict.

YOu can't "make forums better", because forums reflect the subscribers. ALso, in most of MMOs the /general forums are hive of scum and villanity. The only two notable differences were old, CodeMasters DDO forums and the Final Fantasy XIV forums... I guess those games didn't attract "typical MMO player" who is usually in his teens and is of "gief, gief, gief nao" culture, if you can call it a culture.

So, if you can't expect people to behave, as Machiavelli put it lovely in "Discourses on Livy" - "it is necessary to whoever arranges to found a Republic and establish laws in it, to presuppose that all men are bad and that they will use their malignity of mind every time they have the opportunity;", you'd require strong hand to ban everyone who even think of breaking the rules. "Fear will keep them in line. Fear of the mods and of the banhammer". Make the three forum infraction equal one week ban from SWToR and problem's settled.

YOu can't "make forums better", because forums reflect the subscribers.

I also believe that forums represent how well the staff is doing. Informed posters are generally happier. When players are kept in the dark about things, that generates frustration and a sense of abandonment, which is reflected in their posts. I can tell you with complete certainty that as communication increases from Bioware, so does the number of positive posts.

The zombie apocalypse will be the WoW-Killer

And who wouldn't play an MMO called "Zombie Apocalypse?"

And who wouldn't play an MMO called "Zombie Apocalypse?"

Me! I'm too busy stocking my doomsday bunker and dehydrating foods to play games...

Me! I'm too busy stocking my doomsday bunker and dehydrating foods to play games...

See, OP? Good-natured joshing makes the forums more positive.

Of course it isnt. No more than it is a failure of the entire market that hardcore players are leaving the market for more challenging games.

 

It is a sign of changing times. Yes, some games go F2P to avoid financial disaster, but going F2P is not automatically an indicator that a game is a failure.

 

I do, however, feel this game very much failed to reach it's target audience by designing the game with a very narrow restrictive vision that appealed to neither hardcore nor casual players. I personally feel that mistake is slowly being corrected.

It is a sign of changing times, but it's showing how this market is churning out lower quality games by half-assed developers.

This game ended up going F2P due to an incompetent dev team lead by the greedy folks at EA only looking to make a quick buck. With the implementation of F2P, they were able to increase the survivability of this game and milk anyone they can for as long as they can.

I don't see the grass being greener any time in the near-future.

It is a sign of changing times, but it's showing how this market is churning out lower quality games by half-assed developers.

 

This game ended up going F2P due to an incompetent dev team lead by the greedy folks at EA only looking to make a quick buck. With the implementation of F2P, they were able to increase the survivability of this game and milk anyone they can for as long as they can.

If that's how you feel, why are you still playing?Just so you can complain about it on the forums?

See, OP? Good-natured joshing makes the forums more positive.

I wasn't joking. I never joke about zombies..... EVER

If that's how you feel, why are you still playing?Just so you can complain about it on the forums?

If this account's sub is running out and I might not be able to post thereafter, might as well leave with a bang of honesty.

It is a sign of changing times, but it's showing how this market is churning out lower quality games by half-assed developers.

I wouldn't be that harsh....but I don't necessarily disagree with your point overall. Yes, many more games are flooding the market that are not AAA titles and by smaller less skilled studios. Some are surprisingly good despite some shortcomings, others are not. The overall market is moving toward much smaller focused casual games. Just my opinion of course.

This game ended up going F2P due to an incompetent dev team lead by the greedy folks at EA only looking to make a quick buck. With the implementation of F2P, they were able to increase the survivability of this game and milk anyone they can for as long as they can.

Again, not the way I would put it. I would say this....the original dev team definitely hit on one cylinder. IMO they were wrong about almost every contention and design decision they made. Almost all....the sound was spectacular, the stories are mostly involved and interesting IMO, and the game has other appealing aspects. But far too many features were missing, unfinished or just plain draconian.

With the implementation of F2P they were able to flood the game with casual content...because that is what the Market is. It appeals mainly to casual players IMO, and that appeal is real and substantial. The move was a smart one IMO.

I think any commercial game milks anyone it can for as long as they can. Games use different methods to do this, but only free games, completely free games have no interest in generating income. Almost all MMOs are vehicles for profit. And it is all based on greed...it is a capitalist vehicle.

I don't see the grass being greener any time in the near-future.

Fair enough, but I definitely do not agree.

If this account's sub is running out and I might not be able to post thereafter, might as well leave with a bang of honesty.

 

Well, if you're not happy with the game, then quitting is the thing to do.

You lost me right here:

 

Hello everyone. I hope you all are well. Star Wars: The Old Republic is a fun, well balanced, great mmorpg

It's more of a MMOGG then an MMORPG

I can respect your position, but this comment....

 

....dismal, degrading, whining, bickering posts that do nothing sometimes but cause chaos, destruction, hate, anger, rage, trolls, drama where there is none.

 

Whining is a direct insult. It is also highly charged and at BEST speculative. After all, the OPs post could qualify as whining. So can my post in reply...so can your post. That is the problem with using this type of juvenile vitriol.

 

It is a direct derision of those that deride the game and was intended exactly as that IMO. People that truly compliment the game rarely get this type of reaction that you see in this thread.

 

It was a trollish comment IMO. And flaming to boot. Without that comment, or at least something that was a bit more intelligent and mature like perhaps "rage filled combative posts that contribute little if anything to a constructive discussion for the sake of creating drama."

 

THAT is a fair statement that does not insult those that deride the game, but still makes an important point.

Are you asserting that no posts match the OP's description? I can think of many posts that are inflammatory and unconstructive all over this forum, some in this very thread. To say, or imply, that there are NO constructive posts is incorrect, but to suggest that all negative threads are constructive is just as inaccurate.

Less vitriol on both sides would do this forum a world of good.

Less vitriol on both sides would do this forum a world of good.

Sure, but we all know that's never going to happen. And posts like the OP, at best, do nothing to better the situation and more likely serve as flame- and/or troll-bait. Which is almost certainly what the OP intended.

Are you asserting that no posts match the OP's description? I can think of many posts that are inflammatory and unconstructive all over this forum, some in this very thread. To say, or imply, that there are NO constructive posts is incorrect, but to suggest that all negative threads are constructive is just as inaccurate.

 

Less vitriol on both sides would do this forum a world of good.

There are no whining posts. Whining is an insult, not an observation. There is no other interpretation IMO.

Whining is an insult, not an observation.

Then you don' t understand what whining is.