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Inflation


ChoppedSuey's Avatar


ChoppedSuey
08.27.2019 , 02:31 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by PiiTarr View Post
We just had an involuntary unlisting of all items on the GTN. As soon as it was over, things were posted again at much higher prices than before. Multiple items I'd been watching for weeks that had come down into the single digits of millions were re-listed for 10s of millions. That same thing would happen if people pulled listings.

When you cited "selfish desires" I could only assume you meant "greed." Was there some other motivation to which you were referring?

So my 1 billion credits becomes 100 million and someone's Million credits becomes 100 thousand. It would take them about an hour of play to recoup their loss. It would take me years to recoup mine. Please explain to me how that is fair.
It's fair only because there are a lot of duped credits out there and you shouldn't have that much in the first place. Not just you specifically, everyone. Would it be fair or even feasible to do this on a case by case basis?

I get what your saying, but try to earn 100 million credits doing heroics. I mean it may be possible, but my bet is at the end of that you'd be rocking back and forth in a corner, naked, sucking your thumb.
chopped suˇey

PiiTarr's Avatar


PiiTarr
08.27.2019 , 04:03 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ChoppedSuey View Post
It's fair only because there are a lot of duped credits out there and you shouldn't have that much in the first place. Not just you specifically, everyone. Would it be fair or even feasible to do this on a case by case basis?

I get what your saying, but try to earn 100 million credits doing heroics. I mean it may be possible, but my bet is at the end of that you'd be rocking back and forth in a corner, naked, sucking your thumb.
I have been playing since March of 2014. In May of this year I discovered I'd crossed the 1 billion credit threshold. I never engaged in any exploits. I earned credits mostly by crafting, supplemented by weeklies/dailies/heroics and other general gameplay. During that time I gave away well over 200 million credits to guilds and other players (many of whom were complete strangers). You state "everyone" "shouldn't have that much in the first place." What is your reasoning for why those of us who do have that much (who did nothing improper to gain it) shouldn't have it?

ChoppedSuey's Avatar


ChoppedSuey
08.27.2019 , 04:41 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by PiiTarr View Post
I have been playing since March of 2014. In May of this year I discovered I'd crossed the 1 billion credit threshold. I never engaged in any exploits. I earned credits mostly by crafting, supplemented by weeklies/dailies/heroics and other general gameplay. During that time I gave away well over 200 million credits to guilds and other players (many of whom were complete strangers). You state "everyone" "shouldn't have that much in the first place." What is your reasoning for why those of us who do have that much (who did nothing improper to gain it) shouldn't have it?
I see...you think I am accusing you of duping or exploiting credits. That is not the case at all. However, with the exploiting being so prevalent and widespread, do you not think that at least some of the credits that you earned, originated from someone who did exploit to get credits? That's my point. Even if you did nothing wrong, you are still affected as are we all.
chopped suˇey

PiiTarr's Avatar


PiiTarr
08.27.2019 , 06:13 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by ChoppedSuey View Post
I see...you think I am accusing you of duping or exploiting credits. That is not the case at all. However, with the exploiting being so prevalent and widespread, do you not think that at least some of the credits that you earned, originated from someone who did exploit to get credits? That's my point. Even if you did nothing wrong, you are still affected as are we all.
No, I do not think that. I think that I have seen such accusations made before in various threads about any number of topics and I was hoping to avoid having anyone jump in and make such an accusation if I had been vague in my statement about how I acquired so many credits, which would ultimately distract from the question at hand, which was what your reasoning was for eliminating 90% of the credits from player holdings. You answered that, and it sounds to me as though you are saying you believe 90% of the credits currently in game are the result of exploits. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, then I do not share your opinion.

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
08.27.2019 , 08:25 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by ChoppedSuey View Post
You could absolutely do whatever you wanted to do. I don't know what you sell, so maybe what you do sell is already low enough that it wouldn't affect you.

Believe you me, if 90% of players credits went bye-bye, GTN costs would reduce 90% roughly. Maybe more so on the current high value 100 mill plus items. Things like low grade mats and item modifications wouldn't be affected too much I wouldn't think...I could be wrong.

You've said it isn't fair a couple times now if I remember correctly, why isn't it fair? I feel like your not getting what I'm trying to say. At least tell me that you understand that if you wipe out 90% of all player credits, the value of each credit will be worth significantly more than it currently is. If your 1 billion becomes 100 million and so does everyone else's...then your 100 million can purchase the same amount of items that your 1 billion previously could purchase. There will be some fluctuations to that of course and I'm speaking generally. If you understand that, how could you say it's not fair?

TBH with everyone who disagrees with me, which is fine, this will NEVER get implemented anyways. Doesn't mean it is a bad idea.
And you don't seem to get many players have acquired hundreds of million or billions of credits over YEARS. Of course it's not fair to them to get stripped of 90% of the credits they have fairly earned over the lifetime of the game. So new players want some new shiny that costs credits. It's fair for them to WORK FOR IT, just like the rest of us have since launch.

For new players to acquire Millions of credits is EASY, they don't need a handout by removing 90% of the credits from the game that people have worked hard to get over the years.

Not to mention Sales may lower for a short time, but within a month prices would be right back to what they are now, so sellers will just wait for a time so people get credits back from heroics, dailies and any other activity they use to get them. Farming 30-50 million in a week is definitely possible these days, so prices won't change for more then 2-4 weeks.
Referral Link: www.swtor.com/r/Q4Tp3P

ChoppedSuey's Avatar


ChoppedSuey
08.28.2019 , 07:31 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by PiiTarr View Post
No, I do not think that. I think that I have seen such accusations made before in various threads about any number of topics and I was hoping to avoid having anyone jump in and make such an accusation if I had been vague in my statement about how I acquired so many credits, which would ultimately distract from the question at hand, which was what your reasoning was for eliminating 90% of the credits from player holdings. You answered that, and it sounds to me as though you are saying you believe 90% of the credits currently in game are the result of exploits. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, then I do not share your opinion.
No, I don't think that 90% of credits have been exploited. I have no real numbers to back any of this up. There have been some pretty massive exploits in the past and no one save BioWare really has any idea of how deep that actually goes...and likely not even they know exactly.

Even if there weren't any credits exploited, a game like this manufactures currency on demand (as in quest rewards)...there is no pre set amount in the economy. In most economies in the real world, there is a set amount of currency and IF they print more currency you get inflation and the cost of any given unit of currency is worth less. The economy in this game works no differently. With currency in this game and the way it is given out of thin air, it's already doomed to have serious inflation from the get go and action is needed by the developers to prevent inflation. The exploits and duping have caused the process of inflation to speed up exponentially, making things even worse than they should be.

Exploits or no exploits, it would be healthy for the overall game economy to delete a LOT of credits.
chopped suˇey

ChoppedSuey's Avatar


ChoppedSuey
08.28.2019 , 07:35 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
And you don't seem to get many players have acquired hundreds of million or billions of credits over YEARS. Of course it's not fair to them to get stripped of 90% of the credits they have fairly earned over the lifetime of the game. So new players want some new shiny that costs credits. It's fair for them to WORK FOR IT, just like the rest of us have since launch.

For new players to acquire Millions of credits is EASY, they don't need a handout by removing 90% of the credits from the game that people have worked hard to get over the years.

Not to mention Sales may lower for a short time, but within a month prices would be right back to what they are now, so sellers will just wait for a time so people get credits back from heroics, dailies and any other activity they use to get them. Farming 30-50 million in a week is definitely possible these days, so prices won't change for more then 2-4 weeks.
I get that as well as anyone. I've been here since before day one and never exploited or duped anything ever. My credits have been made grinding the GTN and crafting. More crafting in the early days, not so much so the past few years...it's mostly been playing the GTN. With that said, I have as much to lose as anyone if this is implemented and I still think it's a good idea.

I think it would take years for the prices to reach current pricing, if 90% of credits were deleted. But you are right, eventually we would be back in the same boat.

This has NOTHING to do for giving hand outs to new players. I agree they do need to work for it, I'm arguing that for a new player that knows nothing of this game's economy, current pricing seems out of reach. It's easy for us because we are familiar with how things work due to being involved for the better part of the past decade. For a new player it seems unreasonably daunting and that's not a good thing.
chopped suˇey

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
08.29.2019 , 05:11 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by ChoppedSuey View Post
Exploits or no exploits, it would be healthy for the overall game economy to delete a LOT of credits.
It would be healthy for the *game* to provide things people want to buy for credits. Just "deleting" credits, as you so coyly put it, would just cause a repeat of the same situation a few weeks or months later, and would give the game an unhealthy reputation as the one that stole 90% of the players' in-game money.

The problem is that people have, over the years, whined and whined and whined, *endlessly* about the amount of credits they have to pay for stuff like ability training, gear repair bills, modification removal, etc. etc. etc., and now we are reaping the consequences - a vastly over-inflated player-to-player economy. (To be sure, the substantial rewards available for various types of missions have boosted the inflation, but the fundamental cause is the successive removal of credit sinks.)
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

ChoppedSuey's Avatar


ChoppedSuey
08.29.2019 , 07:33 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
It would be healthy for the *game* to provide things people want to buy for credits. Just "deleting" credits, as you so coyly put it, would just cause a repeat of the same situation a few weeks or months later, and would give the game an unhealthy reputation as the one that stole 90% of the players' in-game money.

The problem is that people have, over the years, whined and whined and whined, *endlessly* about the amount of credits they have to pay for stuff like ability training, gear repair bills, modification removal, etc. etc. etc., and now we are reaping the consequences - a vastly over-inflated player-to-player economy. (To be sure, the substantial rewards available for various types of missions have boosted the inflation, but the fundamental cause is the successive removal of credit sinks.)
I won't disagree with you there. It very well may be a better idea to have more (or more substantial) credit sinks. Give everyone a "choice". Really anything that gets credits out of the game at a reasonable rate would work. The only issue in my mind, would be that the player base outrage would parallel the outrage of credit deletion...because those credit sinks would have to be extremely intense to make a difference.

Fundamentally speaking, there is little difference between credit sinks and credit deletion. Only in the players mind. Both ways get credits out of the economy. Should we rip the bandaid off quickly, or do we pull it slowly?
chopped suˇey

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
08.29.2019 , 12:04 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ChoppedSuey View Post
Fundamentally speaking, there is little difference between credit sinks and credit deletion. Only in the players mind. Both ways get credits out of the economy. Should we rip the bandaid off quickly, or do we pull it slowly?
There's a very important difference between credit sinks and credit deletion (quite apart from the reputational damage). It's neatly expressed by a reference to the old saw about giving a man a fish (credit deleition) versus teaching a man to fish (credit-sink addition).

Credit deletion happens once, but does nothing to address the fundamental causes of the inflated economy, so the economy will (quite rapidly) reinflate.

Credit sink addition happens once, too, but keeps on removing credits from the economy. In essence, it *is* a way to address the causes because one of the causes is a lack of effective credit sinks. No, I can't guarantee that this or that or the other list of new / augmented credit sinks will actually be *enough*, but it will be better than doing nothing to address why the economy is inflated.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.