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Is it legal to kick for losing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Is it legal to kick for losing?

Nostred's Avatar


Nostred
02.26.2020 , 10:37 AM | #31
The best answer I could give you is to stop queuing for ranked. The really good players already moved on a long time ago and all that is left is soso players trying to justify their time in pvp saying their rating is good. For competitive pvp thereís a lot of way better games out there and thatís far from where swtor excels. Anyway, I keep hearing people asking everyone to queue ranked in the fleet every evening, so for what I can tell, ranked will die on itís own sooner or later. The wannabe elitist are just making it faster. Have fun :-) unranked is more fun btw since you donít fight the same class/players over and over.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
02.26.2020 , 11:54 AM | #32
Seems like a pointless argument because I doubt the devs will do anything about this. If we're extremely lucky, we might get a new map or two this year, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Last pvp update was 5.9.2 in 2018?
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
02.26.2020 , 01:21 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
From your perspective they arenít trying but if you recall, especially when you were new you too probably have been blown up making a mistake didnít use DCDs on time etc. resulting in a fast death. You got to be reasonable and cultivate newer players and encourage them not dissuade them from participating. You just killing off any chance of a new player wanting to learn and be a part of ranked if you are toxic to them. I have even seen experienced vets die instantly from not using DCDs properly. People make errors you canít be perfect, lol.
This is especially true because of the small community that queues in ranked. They are quick to notice "new" players or less-than-top-5% players and consistently target them when on the opposite team. No matter who you are or what class you play, it's virtually impossible to avoid dying to a 3v1 or 4v1 unless you're hanging back and doing nothing.

This creates a poor environment to actually improve at ranked. If they had a separate 4v4-only queue "PreRanked" where players could practice in a less "elite" environment, it might help. Unfortunately, I doubt it will happen for 2 reasons:

1. The devs never stated that ranked should only be for the crem de la crem. This is a player invention. They want to feel like ranked is somehow the NiM of PVP, but it's not designed that way. Unfortuntely, through vote kicked and tricks, players have the power to bully conditions into being this way.

2. "Elite" players would likely queue in Discord for PreRanked to practice their wintrading techniques and troll less experienced players. For all their "I only want to play the best!" many of these players are more than happy to gank newer players so they can feel powerful. Not all, mind you, but enough to create a definite "personality" to the ranked environment.
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SlimPikinz's Avatar


SlimPikinz
02.26.2020 , 02:52 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
It's a few of the *players* who decided to try to reserved ranked for themselves. Which, to me, definitely smacks of the bully on the playground telling the little kids, "this is our spot, you have to leave".
I think this is a major factor causing the alleged abuse/exploitation of the vote kick system.

The ranked playerbase isn't large enough to foster a healthy environment. New or unexperienced players get opposed by or teamed up with the more skilled players and not 7 other players of the same skill level. Said player dies 20 seconds into the match and gets griefed by their teammates. The skilled players want to play matches where everyone knows exactly what to do, when to do it, how to do it, 100% of the time. If a single thing doesn't go the way they expected, the less skilled player must be punished.

Instead of guiding and teaching new players about how to play in the Ranked environment, "leet" players just want to kick people out hoping for better results in the next match.You would think that the dwindling ranked population would rather just play whatever match they can get then waiting 30 minutes for a queue to pop.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.26.2020 , 07:21 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
This is especially true because of the small community that queues in ranked. They are quick to notice "new" players or less-than-top-5% players and consistently target them when on the opposite team. No matter who you are or what class you play, it's virtually impossible to avoid dying to a 3v1 or 4v1 unless you're hanging back and doing nothing.

This creates a poor environment to actually improve at ranked. If they had a separate 4v4-only queue "PreRanked" where players could practice in a less "elite" environment, it might help. Unfortunately, I doubt it will happen for 2 reasons:

1. The devs never stated that ranked should only be for the crem de la crem. This is a player invention. They want to feel like ranked is somehow the NiM of PVP, but it's not designed that way. Unfortuntely, through vote kicked and tricks, players have the power to bully conditions into being this way.

2. "Elite" players would likely queue in Discord for PreRanked to practice their wintrading techniques and troll less experienced players. For all their "I only want to play the best!" many of these players are more than happy to gank newer players so they can feel powerful. Not all, mind you, but enough to create a definite "personality" to the ranked environment.
Yeah we share the same mentality regarding ranked it seems.

What's amazing is I have seen ranked begin as a toxic pool and when I say toxic I don't mean saying bad words in chat, I mean the overall behavior with all the match manipulations and cheats and hacks it began that way, and now, years later, guess what? It's still full of corruption and nasty behavior!

I believe more people know how to work the system/cheat the system now without others detecting it as easily, though. I think so many tricks are available now that it takes Inspector Gadget to figure out who cheats and who do not.

Oh well. BW will completely gut a gearing/crafting/conquest system and jam a replacement in year after year, but won't gut ranked and try to make it better with a newer, different scoring system. Why?

After so many years of BW chasing hackers, wintraders, and "friends" who throw matches, when will ELO be removed and when will losses not count against players?

Some sort of scoring system based on wins ought to be fully implemented and any sort of ELO scoring should be removed.

With this paltry pool size and rampant cheating due to a easily manipulated game system ELO means NOTHING.

It's effing dumb to even try to attach ELO to a toon when the matches outcome often have nothing to do with the actual skill level of a player in ranked. There's so many causes to a player's ELO going up or down and most of it involves some form of exploitation or match manipulation by other players.

When the integrity of the game is compromised, they ought to change the format to one they can manage. For years BW has proven they cannot manage the ranked games played, they are always playing catch up with all the cheats that are going on trying to punish them after they catch them.

For that reason alone, I am surprised BW hasn't actually looked into a different scoring system for ranked. All the problems they have had with the present system - yet for years they keep it. Makes sense.
Please join the discussion on how to improve rewards for PVP
HERE
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...82#post9840582

omaan's Avatar


omaan
02.27.2020 , 05:40 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
From your perspective they arenít trying but if you recall, especially when you were new you too probably have been blown up making a mistake didnít use DCDs on time etc. resulting in a fast death. You got to be reasonable and cultivate newer players and encourage them not dissuade them from participating. You just killing off any chance of a new player wanting to learn and be a part of ranked if you are toxic to them. I have even seen experienced vets die instantly from not using DCDs properly. People make errors you canít be perfect, lol.
Sorry but when same merc get globalled with 300k dmg taken while doing 1k dps and he isn't stopping to do so he will be kicked by other ranked players. In flashpoints such bads are being kicked even without repeating such fails few times just because they can't finish their current flashpoint. Ranked is full off trolls who refuse to learn, getting globalled contantly every match without doing dps or hps. No way players will tolerate that for long
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.27.2020 , 06:20 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
From your perspective they arenít trying but if you recall, especially when you were new you too probably have been blown up making a mistake didnít use DCDs on time etc. resulting in a fast death. You got to be reasonable and cultivate newer players and encourage them not dissuade them from participating. You just killing off any chance of a new player wanting to learn and be a part of ranked if you are toxic to them. I have even seen experienced vets die instantly from not using DCDs properly. People make errors you canít be perfect, lol.
Omans attitude towards newer ranked guys is pretty poor. Everyone canít be the same skill of how would you know who is the best
Nearly makes me want roll on his server with my 300ms ping and see if I get kicked because Iím not good or because of my ping.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.27.2020 , 07:57 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Sorry but when same merc get globalled with 300k dmg taken while doing 1k dps and he isn't stopping to do so he will be kicked by other ranked players. In flashpoints such bads are being kicked even without repeating such fails few times just because they can't finish their current flashpoint. Ranked is full off trolls who refuse to learn, getting globalled contantly every match without doing dps or hps. No way players will tolerate that for long
I am just saying sometimes even the best make errors. I have seen quite elite PVPers fall alseep and not hit their DCDs when they should have only to get burst dead before they even react.

If this happens to the best PVPers I know it happens to the mid skill or lesser skilled, too. I just think some patience works best with the other players here, because like I said there's so many factors that can tilt the game one way or the other besides player skill.

The terrain can even blow you up, I mean that's why I find ELO ridiculous here. If they can't safeguard the scoring by eliminating all the technical issues in the game that cause deaths inadvertently then how can the scoring be respected?

Factor in wintrades, match throws, and any other form of exploitation available at the finger tips of the most crafty ranked players and you get a big soup of all kinds of BS happening! How does ELO matter here, again?

So in lieu of so many ways matches in ranked get compromised I just think pushing players (even bad ones) off the game is a bad idea. They have a chance to get better and become great teammates in ranked if given the time to learn.

Now, obviously everyone isn't like this, but if you manage to keep 1 out of 10 people trying ranked, that's pretty good! If the players do nothing to make ranked better, then it's doomed because the present parameters that make up ranked is bollocks, frankly speaking.

Without players massaging the playerbase and cultivating a nice culture in ranked the players really are only killing off ranked with a different direction though.

I think this way because I was once told, I am an "egalitarian." I don't know if that's true, I just try to be socially encouraging to strangers I have always been that way and it's always paid me back in dividends because people most of the time just want to be treated as they treat others, which innately by most people is good.

All me being a jerk does is liken the chances others will act like jerks to others in the same predicament, so I try to not carry on the chain of effect by continuing bad behavior. This works IRL, too. Usually if you give others a better side, they give a better side back to you.
Please join the discussion on how to improve rewards for PVP
HERE
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...82#post9840582

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
02.27.2020 , 09:40 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimPikinz View Post
I think this is a major factor causing the alleged abuse/exploitation of the vote kick system.

The ranked playerbase isn't large enough to foster a healthy environment. New or unexperienced players get opposed by or teamed up with the more skilled players and not 7 other players of the same skill level. Said player dies 20 seconds into the match and gets griefed by their teammates. The skilled players want to play matches where everyone knows exactly what to do, when to do it, how to do it, 100% of the time. If a single thing doesn't go the way they expected, the less skilled player must be punished.

Instead of guiding and teaching new players about how to play in the Ranked environment, "leet" players just want to kick people out hoping for better results in the next match.You would think that the dwindling ranked population would rather just play whatever match they can get then waiting 30 minutes for a queue to pop.
The size of the player base isnt the problem, the content of it is.
If those players made half the effort in building new players as they do being tards about it, it would be much healthier.
Its a choice they make, then they wonder why no one is in queue.
No, not all of them of course, but enough that it inevitably taints the experience.
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omaan's Avatar


omaan
02.27.2020 , 10:37 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
I am just saying sometimes even the best make errors. I have seen quite elite PVPers fall alseep and not hit their DCDs when they should have only to get burst dead before they even react.

If this happens to the best PVPers I know it happens to the mid skill or lesser skilled, too. I just think some patience works best with the other players here, because like I said there's so many factors that can tilt the game one way or the other besides player skill.

The terrain can even blow you up, I mean that's why I find ELO ridiculous here. If they can't safeguard the scoring by eliminating all the technical issues in the game that cause deaths inadvertently then how can the scoring be respected?

Factor in wintrades, match throws, and any other form of exploitation available at the finger tips of the most crafty ranked players and you get a big soup of all kinds of BS happening! How does ELO matter here, again?

So in lieu of so many ways matches in ranked get compromised I just think pushing players (even bad ones) off the game is a bad idea. They have a chance to get better and become great teammates in ranked if given the time to learn.

Now, obviously everyone isn't like this, but if you manage to keep 1 out of 10 people trying ranked, that's pretty good! If the players do nothing to make ranked better, then it's doomed because the present parameters that make up ranked is bollocks, frankly speaking.

Without players massaging the playerbase and cultivating a nice culture in ranked the players really are only killing off ranked with a different direction though.

I think this way because I was once told, I am an "egalitarian." I don't know if that's true, I just try to be socially encouraging to strangers I have always been that way and it's always paid me back in dividends because people most of the time just want to be treated as they treat others, which innately by most people is good.

All me being a jerk does is liken the chances others will act like jerks to others in the same predicament, so I try to not carry on the chain of effect by continuing bad behavior. This works IRL, too. Usually if you give others a better side, they give a better side back to you.
Iam not talking about skilled players who do mistakes and sometimes getting globalled. Skilled players even best players also often getting killed fast yet iam talking about those who always do so low that every their fight is an auto lose. They queue for months, and in every fight, in every round they die very fast without doing any dps. Skilled players or at least decent players can die fast in one round but do good in next rounds and win the fight but there are also players who just doing very bad in all rounds, in all fights lol. Such trolls are kicked pretty often i agree with it
Support the most evil, mad and cruel sith named Stain by clicking this small link http://www.swtor.com/r/wSmNkK You will get additional 7 days of subscription while i get some goodies
May the kek be with you. Save ranked and class balance pls