The game-world feels sterile -

 

I get the feeling that a talented artist made all the models but then handed the mouse over to an accountant and said "here, just right click to place all these enemies around the zone" ... if you see an area void of enemies just right click and drop 'em there. That's the "vib" I get when playing.

 

And for the record, I've always been more into Scifi settings much MUCH more than elves and gnomes..... But... game-play and liveliness will trump the theme to the casual gamer. I'm not saying we need day / night cycles but come on .. the world seems dead. The enemy's are haphazardly placed in groups of 3 randomly ! Did the secretary or phone operator place the enemy NPCs in this game or what? It just seems like these units were put there because someone thought X zone needed Y number of mobs in this area... I feel like there was no "care" put into into making the game-world.

 

Sure the graphics alone are good to great for a MMORPG - congrats on that..

 

Also, the Story is amazing... great job on that too !! but... after that....

 

This issue of deadness with regard to the game-world was blatantly apparent within the first 5 levels of this game. To all those who say give it a chance ... Trust me...I know .. I want too - seriously. I didn't spend 80 bucks to not play the game. With that said I noticed the deadness, and the sloppy combat right away and its been somewhat of a chore to muster up the desire to want to play this game :-( I'm bummed out because when I see a game advertized as an MMORPG I think of - Anarchy Online, DAOC, WoW, SWG (pre nrg) etc... And gamers are a finicky bunch... we expect (unfortunatly it can be a lot) but we expect improvement to the current standard - we all know what game has set the current bar for MMORPG's for the masses. Like it or not.. its true.

 

In short (and this is vague i realize) but if I were the lead dev; i'd say to my team:

 

First - Make sure combat feels natural, fluid, and FUN

 

Second- Make sure the first 10 levels are the best levels in MMO history... first impressions are made here.

 

Third - Make the game-world alive, robust, and fluid. I'd lecture them on what other games have done and that we need to do it better - as gamers - we expect improvement and enhancements to any title after something as commercially successful as WoW- so if we're making a similar game (and all MMORPG's are based on a somewhat standard rule-set) I'd stress we need to do it better... just like WoW did it better in its time.

 

fourth- Customer service & rinse and repeat the above and try and vary up the quests a little more to the level cap.

 

Fifth - Make some fun and intriguing end-game content for the PvE raiders - and make sure there are places that these higher level characters can gather up and interact - and let them be seen by the lower levels - a carrot on the stick for the lowbie toons - something that shows that lonely level 5 what they have to look forward too !!

 

Sixth - Good PvP (I won't stress complete and total balance if I was pressed for time.. but i'd say get it reasonably balanced for launch and we can tweak later) but it should be functional and fun at launch- this is now expected by players - to think otherwise is asinine.

 

Seventh - crafting- make it fun - much like SWG but improve it more *(ties into eighth)*

 

Eighth - more sandbox elements to give people something to do when they are not Raiding and PvP'ing. (this is eight on the list... hence it shouldn't be something that consumes 40% of the dev's time .. but come on... you wanna compete with whats out there.. add this in for extra flavor - something that even if 80% of players don't engage or participate in initially, such as housing and furniture, and decorating right away ... at some-point later they might mess around with it) and its 1 more reason that a potential TOR player can justify paying 15 bucks a month for... especially when the competition doesn't have much in the way of sandbox "SWTOR has that in addition to all the rest"

 

Ninth- Promise only what you know you can deliver and by all means deliver that well -

 

In conclusion - I want to love SWTOR - but it's barely lukewarm at best in my eyes. These guys had to know what the competition is offering .... And someone would have to be crazy if they were planning on sinking 100 million or more into a MMORPG game that wasn't going to be as good as WoW on all levels. Ask yourself this - if you were going to spend 100 million or more on a game in the same category as WoW... would you not try and reduce the risk by making sure it meets or exceeds the average WoW players expectations?

 

To succeed in this market the powers at EA and BW should have known that they would have to do it better than Blizz - And that doesn't mean it needs to be bigger than WoW- but it does need to be better than WoW. It can still be different from WoW, but it still needs to play better than WoW.

 

WoW - was not original as many have pointed out - many look to everquest or UO who were among the first true computerized versions of MMORPG's. They were the first MMORPG's on PC, but they were also considered very difficult as you could lose items, or even levels in those games. Then along came Funcom - who wanted to make a scifi MMORPG that didn't punish the player nearly as much as EQ or UO. In reality, Anarchy Online and later DAOC were the games that WoW had borrowed from most, and all WoW did was take the best of these games and repackage it in the warcraft universe - WoW's uniqueness came from getting more things RIGHT than they did WRONG - something that none of its predecessors had yet managed to do distinctively well.

 

In addition and just as important -

 

WoW also was released at a time when home computers were becoming a staple item inside the average middle income home. These computers were roughly all powered by various versions of the intel P4 processor so it was much easier for blizzard to write a game that would run on most systems (as the hobbyist DYI computer was not yet en-vogue to your average user) This is huge !!! - The first time in history that a MMORPG was released to the general consumer market of PC owners who all roughly had similar computer systems - These were the days when every other commercial on TV was "Dude you're getting DELL!!" lol

 

So SWTOR - you need to be better than all the rest - and that's where I think this game has potential...but everyday that the servers are up and nothing changes ... that potential dwindles.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cirq

By far, the worst example of this is on Tatooine, the second town for Republic (Dreviad Outpost I think). If you walk around you'll notice the exact same female NPC in at least 5-6 different locations.....in one spot up on the ledge in front of a building, there are two of the exact same girl sitting right next to one another.

 

This also happens a lot in the Jedi Temple on Tython, where it seems one gruff bearded jedi with a half-ponytail has somehow cloned himself a dozen times and is teaching all the classes on campus, as well as guarding a few doors.

 

You have to wonder how someone could place those characters in those locations and not feel they were doing something very very wrong.

Edited January 23, 2012 by nightchrome

I'm afraid I have to agree with this...it just seems that the game has so little to offer as far as content. I've only played a few other MMOs (LOTR Online, SWG, COH) but I feel as those other ones were a lot funner to play for longer periods of time. SWTOR feels more like an online version of KOTOR. Don't get me wrong, I love the KOTOR series, heck, I love the storyline of this game. But it feels like once the story is done, that's it, no more reason to play. It saddens me because I really was looking forward to an awesome Star Wars MMO that would be fun to play long after the main story is finished.

100% agree with everything you mentioned. Please for the love of god read this BW... Your game worlds are so empty and sterile. The story is great sure, but the environments are boring. On republic, I'm lucky if I see another player every hour.... This doesn't feel like an MMO should feel.

By far, the worst example of this is on Tatooine, the second town for Republic (Dreviad Outpost I think). If you walk around you'll notice the exact same female NPC in at least 5-6 different locations.....in one spot up on the ledge in front of a building, there are two of the exact same girl sitting right next to one another.

 

This also happens a lot in the Jedi Temple on Tython, where it seems one gruff bearded jedi with a half-ponytail has somehow cloned himself a dozen times and is teaching all the classes on campus, as well as guarding a few doors.

 

You have to wonder how someone could place those characters in those locations and not feel they were doing something very very wrong.

 

 

I agree to what all the posters have said. I think what was outlined in these posts are the real contributing factors to why this game isn't meeting our expectations. And given the resources at EA and BW these shouldn't be monumental fixes with regard to resources - sure it will require a big meeting of all the devs, sure it will require some coding and some changes but we're not asking for a whole new game... that's where I believe the game has potential - the general framework is in place - the problem is it feels like no one went back and looked at the big picture and asked... "is this fun and Immersive from the players perspective ?"

Edited January 23, 2012 by Cirq

100% agree with everything you mentioned. Please for the love of god read this BW... Your game worlds are so empty and sterile. The story is great sure, but the environments are boring. On republic, I'm lucky if I see another player every hour.... This doesn't feel like an MMO should feel.

 

Same here - they are going to have to implement free faction changes or something otherwise it will take too long to naturally correct and too many gamers will leave.

I really really wish I could argue against this but it's true. This game promises epic story but it really really doesn't feel like epic story.

 

"You must save our villiage from a horde of vicious Rakghouls that are soon to sweep down on our outpost"

 

Bull! I sat there watching the mobs for an hour and not only did they not move towards the outpost they didn't move at all!..... ok so that's not true. If you really want to prove me wrong go ahead and put the hour in if you want.

 

I'm not saying that this is the only game to have this issue of course, not by a long shot, but it's also probably one of the reasons I'm getting burned out with the genre. Here's hoping TERA or GW2 brighten my dark skies.

So I guess today's forum word for the day is "sterile"? This is like the fifth post I've read in the last 10 minutes using that word, and it wasn't popular yesterday.

 

I wish I knew where everyone got the notice what the forum word for the day was, I want to join in the fun!

I wont get into much other than I completely agree with giving more sandbox elements to let players come up with their own things to do when not questing or raiding... because right now the only other option is space combat. Why dont we have sabaac card tables, plenty of casino type minigames could be thrown into the various bars/clubs/casinos. Maybe some swoop racing variant ala the original KOTOR.

 

Give us something fun to do, heck you havnt even fixed the fact that 90 percent of chairs/benches are decorations that we cant even sit down on and have nice little RP moments.

I feel the same way the game has so much going for it. But just seems like alot of things got overlooked.

So I guess today's forum word for the day is "sterile"? This is like the fifth post I've read in the last 10 minutes using that word, and it wasn't popular yesterday.

 

I wish I knew where everyone got the notice what the forum word for the day was, I want to join in the fun!

 

I think it's simply a good word to describe the problem - in a very general way. I didn't want to come down too hard on the powers that be who gave this game the proverbial "green light" but I will say they need to address these issues ASAP - because most of the people who are taking the time to post on the forums and outline the game with constructive criticism are doing so in good faith of trying to help BW see the forest from the trees.

A perfect example of the sterile surroundings (for lack of a better term) or lack of realistic interaction/reaction is this quest I just did on Alderann. I was supposed to overload the weapons lifter. When I did, it went amok and ran into a nearby building with a load of bombs. The entire building exploded and went up in flames. When the flames died down a bit, the 3 enemy troopers that were standing in front of the building were still standing there in the rubble, flames all around them, completely uninjured and not a hair out of place. I see this kind of silliness over and over. Did none of the developers play Morrowind ?

Hi. I left today for this reason. I enjoyed the game, and pvp, but when I got to hoth I noticed these ice cats every 30 meters, it did not make sence. I would of rather have seen nothingness and battles between the factions in pockets with defencive structures and moving vehicles. Maybe some air strikes from over head. Ice cats...sorry. In addition there where 15 people in hoth according to the who list. That zone is huge. I wanted to add one more thing just if the dev read this, I know it's off topic, the LFG system, totally sucks. Im sure there is constructive criticism elsewhere for this. Again the game was fun and I appreciate the good time I had.

More Starwars and less snowcats and desert vultures!!

These are all good examples of whats wrong - this game needs a fix and for whoever is in charge to step back and see the forest from the trees and ask themselves - "Is this fun for the player" and "would I pay 15.00 a month for this"

 

BW - you spent 200 million on the game - now spend a few grand.. contact some of the more insightful players that have posted some good ideas on here... Offer to fly them out to your HQ, gather up all the devs, and listen to the people who are playing your game. Save your investment before it's too late !

 

Not everyone in life is a Steve Jobs who could make something that everybody wanted and not need a focus group to determine this - obviously you guys need some help -OR- you marketed this game as something other than what it really is ?

I have to agree. The game does not feel very real and alive. I feel like this game took a major step backwards in terms of a believable world.

 

Get the quality, believability and 'immersion factor' of the actual game world itself up as high as the graphics are at and this game would really feel special. Right now it feels like it's all glued down everywhere.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Aisar

The Hoth I know and love is a desolate place, open tundra where nothing organic could survive without shelter, the screaming air so thick with blowing snow that you can't see your lightsaber on your belt.

 

What's Hoth like in this game? I hope they nailed it!

 

 

Cake is a lie; there is only pie.

I have to agree. The game does not feel very real and alive. I feel like this game took a major step backwards in terms of a believable world.

 

Get the quality, believability and 'immersion factor' of the actual game world itself up as high as the graphics are at and this game would really feel special. Right now it feels like it's all glued down everywhere.

 

Well... if you want a believable world you could try... oh I dunno the MMO called the RealWorld?

 

Seriously name a MMO whos world feels believable. It's certainly not WoW because enemies in WoW stand around, or follow set paths, Friendly NPCs in WoW stand around or follow set paths. Woooo so believable!

I agree. For a game that has such huge financial backing, it's a shame they decided to play it safe and went for the "sterile"/"dry" route MMO's are known for. Mobs placed randomly around, each a clone of the other, NPC's standing nailed to the spot. No life, no consequences from you actions - I'm sure anyone who's played more than one MMO knows what it's like.

 

What's a bigger shame is that the Star Wars IP is so versatile and deep, there's a load of stuff they could have put into place. And yet, I feel like I'm playing what I played 5 years ago, the combat system is the same, the areas are laid out in the same manner, and so forth. The only thing SWTOR has going for it at the moment is the storyline and voiced NPC's...but that's not really what makes an MMO. It's important, it's unique - yes; but what do you do once you pass it once, twice, thrice? It grows old and bland. That's why successful MMO's rely on gameplay to keep them going, that's an infinite loop you can exploit if done correctly. Sadly, BioWare haven't delivered in this regard - the gameplay has hardly improved from what MMO's offered years ago.

 

What's more, the world is so damned instanced. At least you'd think they would use this to make the phased quests (the class storylines for one) much more dynamic and believable. And yet, it's the same as "outside" - a bunch of mobs standing randomly about, that hardly manage to live up the the hype the quest dialogue and description contain.

 

Good thing I'm a RP'er and that's what's keeping me here in the log run, but don't get me started on how many missing features the game has in that area as well...

Edited January 23, 2012 by Blackrock

Game is not the holodeck. Theirfor game is fundamentally flawed. In reality the game is actually fine. You feeling that its sterile is the problem and its based on very little as far as I can tell.

Game is not the holodeck. Theirfor game is fundamentally flawed. In reality the game is actually fine. You feeling that its sterile is the problem and its based on very little as far as I can tell.

 

I don't think anyone here has said that the game "sucks". People are saying it doesn't feel live enough, which is true for every MMO. However, with BioWare's emphasis on story and atmosphere, you'd think the gameworld would actually have a dynamic element to it.

 

The best example (and most relevant I can give), is how Mythic handled Keeps in Warhammer Online. Some of those devs are on-board for this so I was hoping - still am - that we'll see something similar in the future.

Seriously name a MMO whos world feels believable. It's certainly not WoW because enemies in WoW stand around, or follow set paths, Friendly NPCs in WoW stand around or follow set paths. Woooo so believable!

 

Easy: WoW. No, not because enemies follow set paths. Just take the tram from Ironforge to SW, and walk around for 10 seconds. Now take a ship from Alderaan to Coruscant and do likewise. I don't have to convince you with words, but anyone who knows, knows the difference.

 

 

Cake is a lie; there is only pie.

Easy: WoW. No, not because enemies follow set paths. Just take the tram from Ironforge to SW, and walk around for 10 seconds. Now take a ship from Alderaan to Coruscant and do likewise. I don't have to convince you with words, but anyone who knows, knows the difference.

 

 

Cake is a lie; there is only pie.

 

Quote for the truth !

Agree.

 

Two words......Sneaky Cat!

I am not sure if the people who are complaining about this have ever played mmos before, if not, then I understand their argument, however, every other mmo I played feels much more dead than SWTOR feels:

 

If you cannot find players running around, you can't blame BW, blame low server population.

 

Almost every world I go, I see NPC acting small little scenes, from the Jedi padawans learning from their masters lifting rocks, or meditating together, to the guards beating innocent people on the streets, hell I have even saw an npc stealing from another and getting shot in the face on Tatooine, just as I was walking by.

 

I played lots of other mmos, and this one seems the most "alive" one to be honest, AoC was meant to feel "lifelike" I remember they boosted how the world felt like a living place, yet, I still think SWTOR did a better job.

I really really wish I could argue against this but it's true. This game promises epic story but it really really doesn't feel like epic story.

 

Exactly, nor do you actually feel like a hero in your own story. Monumental Fail.

 

If you cannot find players running around, you can't blame BW, blame low server population.

 

All servers were heavy several weeks ago, ask yourself WHY the populations are now LOW, instead of trying to deflect the issue away from Bioware's mistakes with this game. I am a very forgiving person, I trust Bioware will make PVP fair, and bring a lot of balance fixes too in time, as well as more genuine new quest driven story content we can go and play to continue with the game.

 

Much of the problem of low pops are down to several factors, people leaving the game, people re rolling on other servers instead. Too many people choosing one faction over the other, even though many of them know they are choosing the most popular side with the most players. So you go to enter into the game as a Republic - you exclaim "hey there isn't a lot of us on here" - if your an IMP - you exclaim "hey were's my meat" - in other words they got no one to farm. Probably not the fact that there isn't enough Imps.

Edited January 23, 2012 by dronepilot