Way back in the year when Eric asked us about pvp gearing and possibly Expertise there were some people (mainly causal pvpers who pve’d too) who argued against Expertise because they didn’t want to grind two gear sets or have two gear sets in their inventory (too hard to swap back and forth)

Well I hope you guys realise they are implementing a gearing system so complicated and grindy that you’ll wish they had implemented a two tiered gearing system and had expertise back for a pvp set. You will still need two sets or even more.

People here tried to explain that a seperate Expertise set obtained as fast as the old pvp set was the way to go. But you whined about how “hard” and “unfair” that is. I can’t wait to see the exact same people start to moaning about the 6.0 system when it’s released.

Then when you finally get your BiS after 6 months you’ll be back here lording it over full time pvpers or casual (time poor) players saying how easy it was for you to gear up.

Hope you’re all happy with Bioware’s solution to a no pvp Expertise set.

It's ok ...6 mo doing what i want is ok.

Bad was backdays prior 2014. When I had to spend 2 weeks pvp non stop (10hrs/day) for me, then another 2 weeks for comp (yeh, pvp was fastest way to gear/boost companion), then another 4 weeks to get 2nd tier pvp ...and when guild invites me to FP ...boom - noob detected - wrong gear. Go spend some weeks for.

And when I came out to open world ....boom - wrong gear again. It was like - "pvp" - stealth.- .found quest mob, looking all around - nobody - "pve", killing mob - stealth fast - "pvp" ...lucky if not hit while with mob otherwise 1shooted.

So ye,thanks, no need for expertise. Just let me get gear by doing anything i want right now. That how should be.

Actual trick is, you can do PVE alone, while PVP not. So that's why PVE'rs will gear faster - because they can keep gearing deep night or early morning, while pvp happens only late evening. If you don't like be last - go farm mobs.

It's ok ...6 mo doing what i want is ok.

Bad was backdays prior 2014. When I had to spend 2 weeks pvp non stop (10hrs/day) for me, then another 2 weeks for comp (yeh, pvp was fastest way to gear/boost companion), then another 4 weeks to get 2nd tier pvp ...and when guild invites me to FP ...boom - noob detected - wrong gear. Go spend some weeks for.

And when I came out to open world ....boom - wrong gear again. It was like - "pvp" - stealth.- .found quest mob, looking all around - nobody - "pve", killing mob - stealth fast - "pvp" ...lucky if not hit while with mob otherwise 1shooted.

 

So ye,thanks, no need for expertise. Just let me get gear by doing anything i want right now. That how should be.

 

Actual trick is, you can do PVE alone, while PVP not. So that's why PVE'rs will gear faster - because they can keep gearing deep night or early morning, while pvp happens only late evening. If you don't like be last - go farm mobs.

Have you even read what the 6.0 gearing is going to be? Looking forward to your QQ after 6.0 is released

Have you even read what the 6.0 gearing is going to be? Looking forward to your QQ after 6.0 is released

Will see what it be, don't care

Longer it take - better. I would play something what takes 3mo to gather resources for craft. It gives point to play.

Because everybody will be in such situation. So it will be more - less even for long time.

Way back in the year when Eric asked us about pvp gearing and possibly Expertise there were some people (mainly causal pvpers who pve’d too) who argued against Expertise because they didn’t want to grind two gear sets or have two gear sets in their inventory (too hard to swap back and forth)

Well I hope you guys realise they are implementing a gearing system so complicated and grindy that you’ll wish they had implemented a two tiered gearing system and had expertise back for a pvp set. You will still need two sets or even more.

People here tried to explain that a seperate Expertise set obtained as fast as the old pvp set was the way to go. But you whined about how “hard” and “unfair” that is. I can’t wait to see the exact same people start to moaning about the 6.0 system when it’s released.

Then when you finally get your BiS after 6 months you’ll be back here lording it over full time pvpers or casual (time poor) players saying how easy it was for you to gear up.

Hope you’re all happy with Bioware’s solution to a no pvp Expertise set.

People are more concerned about turning Jaesa light side than gearing system.

They just don't care. Here in the forums we do have some people who proved using facts that 6.0 gearing will be a failure.

Look at Reddit, posts about gearing system ideas and facts have very low Upvote numbers. Posts about useless stuff gets hundreds of upvotes.

I'm on this game since the very first Beta, I remember most of the atrocious decisions Bioware made since then, I can confirm adding RNG to the game was the worst decision.

4.0+ before 5.0 had the best gearing this game ever had, NO ONE, literally NO ONE complained about it, but I learned that Bioware is too stubborn to revert anything.

I'm currently playing Star Wars Battlefront 2, DICE just reverted an update because the update was bad for the game. Bioware is the opposite, they won't revert it, they will spend thousands of hours and resources to "fix" that wrong decision, this is what I hate most about Bioware, this is what I saw them doing for over 7 years of Swtor.

I started that thread in which i say that expertise has nothing to do with pvp. It was just a stat that only worked in pvp plain and simple. But it forced players to get 2 sets of gear which was its biggest problem.

What you want which i agree with would be a way to save up a "currency" that you can acquire from lowbie/midbie wzs which you can then use to purchase gear at max lvl. That is what you really want.

I find it funny hearing all these complaints about the grind it will be in 6.0 when bolster will put everyone at max in wzs in 6.0. Gear means less and less with 6.0. which is what pvpers wanted too.

You got your wish with bolster, yet you still complain about gearing. If they did put back expertise, guess what, that stat would be bolstered too. It is a pointless stat in the end which is why i had created that thread a while back.

I started that thread in which i say that expertise has nothing to do with pvp. It was just a stat that only worked in pvp plain and simple. But it forced players to get 2 sets of gear which was its biggest problem.

 

What you want which i agree with would be a way to save up a "currency" that you can acquire from lowbie/midbie wzs which you can then use to purchase gear at max lvl. That is what you really want.

 

I find it funny hearing all these complaints about the grind it will be in 6.0 when bolster will put everyone at max in wzs in 6.0. Gear means less and less with 6.0. which is what pvpers wanted too.

 

You got your wish with bolster, yet you still complain about gearing. If they did put back expertise, guess what, that stat would be bolstered too. It is a pointless stat in the end which is why i had created that thread a while back.

You people are really starting to infuriate me. Like, I'm about to go full darkside on y'all.

I'm still waiting to hear why having another gear set is such a big deal. We can port to our stronghold to change clothes in under 30 seconds. Oh, and every single freaking one of you move legacy gear around on a regular basis, a process which requires more steps (logging off, then on to another character). EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU. Now stop with that. *force chokes entire room* Or you could always, you know, create an alt (which you already have 100 of), have one for pve, one for pvp. Easy. But NOOOOooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Gaining currency at lower levels does absolutely nothing for the majority of us who are already at level.

Ah yes, bolster will fix everything. I mean, you may have little to no control over your stat allocation and end up wasting a buttload of points in alacrity (well exceeding the threshold after which more points do absolutely nothing - go look up the alacrity thresholds) because the 6.0 system doesn't let you get modifiable gear or mods themselves very easily, which also means that you won't be augmenting gear anytime soon (unless you have millions of credits to burn as you have to keep re-augmenting pieces over and over as you slow march from 270 to 306 in 2 point increments). Oh, and that's just one character. Have fun.

Bolstering expertise???? Dude, no. We previously had bolster and expertise at the same time. Expertise isn't bolstered. That's not what expertise is or how that works at all. Don't talk about stuff that you have never experienced in this game.

So, in summary: we cannot have a quick and easy pvp gearing system because it's such a pain to change clothes or have an alt. Therefore we must have the same grindy progression ops style gearing (because it would be totally unfair if it were quick and easy to get ops gear without doing ops). But no worries, bolster will save us! Er...actually, not really. Only if you close your eyes and pretend to not understand how stat allocations with crit / alac / acc work.

Only if you close your eyes and pretend to not understand how stat allocations with crit / alac / acc work.

My concern about bolster in 6.0 is that it will neuter all stats across the board. Meaning say you have a high alacrity build mara, and a high crit build mara... I am worried bolster will take both builds and make their effective stats essentially the same. If that happens, the different variations of gameplay will be eliminated and that would make the game far less enjoyable. But that's what they been doing, whatever seems to make the game less enjoyable, BW game design has routinely taken that route with every large update since 4.0.

You people are really starting to infuriate me. Like, I'm about to go full darkside on y'all.

 

I'm still waiting to hear why having another gear set is such a big deal. We can port to our stronghold to change clothes in under 30 seconds. Oh, and every single freaking one of you move legacy gear around on a regular basis, a process which requires more steps (logging off, then on to another character). EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU. Now stop with that. *force chokes entire room* Or you could always, you know, create an alt (which you already have 100 of), have one for pve, one for pvp. Easy. But NOOOOooooooooo!!!!!!!!

 

Gaining currency at lower levels does absolutely nothing for the majority of us who are already at level.

 

Ah yes, bolster will fix everything. I mean, you may have little to no control over your stat allocation and end up wasting a buttload of points in alacrity (well exceeding the threshold after which more points do absolutely nothing - go look up the alacrity thresholds) because the 6.0 system doesn't let you get modifiable gear or mods themselves very easily, which also means that you won't be augmenting gear anytime soon (unless you have millions of credits to burn as you have to keep re-augmenting pieces over and over as you slow march from 270 to 306 in 2 point increments). Oh, and that's just one character. Have fun.

 

Bolstering expertise???? Dude, no. We previously had bolster and expertise at the same time. Expertise isn't bolstered. That's not what expertise is or how that works at all. Don't talk about stuff that you have never experienced in this game.

 

So, in summary: we cannot have a quick and easy pvp gearing system because it's such a pain to change clothes or have an alt. Therefore we must have the same grindy progression ops style gearing (because it would be totally unfair if it were quick and easy to get ops gear without doing ops). But no worries, bolster will save us! Er...actually, not really. Only if you close your eyes and pretend to not understand how stat allocations with crit / alac / acc work.

You fail to see the simple point that with expertise in the game, any player who wants to participate in both pve and pvp needed 2 sets of gear to play the game. Without expertise, everyone only needs 1 set of gear to play the whole game. Having 1 set of gear is better for everyone.

100 alts......I personally hate alts and do not have a single double on any server outside of mirror to play on either faction.

The loss of earning currency to buy gear from low/midbies i think is a big reason for the lower quality of pvpers that decide to try pvp for the first time at max lvl. No one has any real incentive to play in those lower brackets anymore since they removed gaining currency. They have no practice as they lvl up their characters and do not learn how to pvp or play their class properly which is why the quality of pvp right now is as bad as ever. This is why i think getting currency in low/midbies is important.

Bolster definitely wont give us optimal stats. But guess what! It is the same for everyone meaning no one will have gear advantage over anyone else unless you actual reach this new highest gear rating without bolster and mix/max to what you want.

As for augmenting your gear and spending millions of credits. I am biased since other than pvp, making credits via crafting is the other thing I do for fun in this game so whatever the cost, it will not have an impact on me.

In the past, stats were never bolstered to the max, that included expertise, but it was bolstered. But guess what, now they are! Therefore expertise would be too making it completely useless. As for understanding stat allocation, i always do my own thing. I try difference stats lvls out, get a feel for it and if i like it and it feels good for me and how i want to play, i use it. According to all the experts, i currently waste a lot of stats and i don't care because playing at those "perfect" lvls does not feel good for how i like to play my class and is therefore worse for me. Find what works for you and go with it.

Way back in the year when Eric asked us about pvp gearing and possibly Expertise there were some people (mainly causal pvpers who pve’d too) who argued against Expertise because they didn’t want to grind two gear sets or have two gear sets in their inventory (too hard to swap back and forth)

Well I hope you guys realise they are implementing a gearing system so complicated and grindy that you’ll wish they had implemented a two tiered gearing system and had expertise back for a pvp set. You will still need two sets or even more.

People here tried to explain that a seperate Expertise set obtained as fast as the old pvp set was the way to go. But you whined about how “hard” and “unfair” that is. I can’t wait to see the exact same people start to moaning about the 6.0 system when it’s released.

Then when you finally get your BiS after 6 months you’ll be back here lording it over full time pvpers or casual (time poor) players saying how easy it was for you to gear up.

Hope you’re all happy with Bioware’s solution to a no pvp Expertise set.

Ya what we had in 4.x was literally the perfect system. What we're getting in 6.0 is a nightmare.

Ya what we had in 4.x was literally the perfect system. What we're getting in 6.0 is a nightmare.

More than a nightmare, it’s a frigen disaster

You people are really starting to infuriate me. Like, I'm about to go full darkside on y'all.

 

I'm still waiting to hear why having another gear set is such a big deal.

Keep it calm, bro.

Like many things in life, there are pros and cons to any PVP gear system. There is no "perfect" system, and anyone saying 4.0 was Shanghri La has a serious case of nostalgia. They're forgetting how close 4.0 was to what GSF is now. It was fun for people who get a kick out of ganking new players, and not so much fun for gear alts or for new players.

Climbing upwards against people who have a strong advantage in gear in not fun, at least not for most players.

The upside was that getting gear meant something. It was rewarding. Also, there was a clear path to gear. Unfortunately, it took forever to get top rating gear that allowed you to truly compete, which limited the amount of alts you could play, took away from ranked queues and led to much greater toxicity in matches.

5.0 was great for casuals and for gearing via PVP. Unfortunately, Ossus also added the negative effect of letting people who play NiM ops have better gear in PVP than many PVPers, or forcing PVPers to run OPs.

I think 6.0 is going to be a mess for PVP, giving how much we're going to lose when it comes to set bonuses. However, I don't think bringing back expertise would correct that issue at all. Instead, the differences between the haves and have nots would be even more pronounced, leading to an even smaller ranked population. Great for the ego of a few, yes. Great for the health of the game? Not in my opinion.

Expertise, or pvp gear, would be fine for me if the devs figure out a way to properly bolster when someone takes PVE gear into pvp. It's not just that I don't want to carry around 4 sets of gear on my scoundrel, it's that I have 25+ toons of varying specs and roles.

Luckily, relics, ears, and implants are going Legacy, so pvp gear might not be such a bad idea any more.

I started that thread in which i say that expertise has nothing to do with pvp. It was just a stat that only worked in pvp plain and simple. But it forced players to get 2 sets of gear which was its biggest problem.

 

What you want which i agree with would be a way to save up a "currency" that you can acquire from lowbie/midbie wzs which you can then use to purchase gear at max lvl. That is what you really want.

 

I find it funny hearing all these complaints about the grind it will be in 6.0 when bolster will put everyone at max in wzs in 6.0. Gear means less and less with 6.0. which is what pvpers wanted too.

 

You got your wish with bolster, yet you still complain about gearing. If they did put back expertise, guess what, that stat would be bolstered too. It is a pointless stat in the end which is why i had created that thread a while back.

Still need to grind in an RNG system for amps/tacticals/gear sets and have to grind for BIS mods. Max bolster doesn't really solve anything. PvP with the 4.x system was literally the most optimal solution.

Keep it calm, bro.

 

Like many things in life, there are pros and cons to any PVP gear system. There is no "perfect" system, and anyone saying 4.0 was Shanghri La has a serious case of nostalgia. They're forgetting how close 4.0 was to what GSF is now. It was fun for people who get a kick out of ganking new players, and not so much fun for gear alts or for new players..

4.x was the perfect system. They removed the cap on warzone comms allowing you to pvp in lowbies while leveling and have enough comms for a complete set of pvp gear the minute you hit cap. And if you didn't pvp at all in lowbies you could spend a single day over the weekend doing both dailies and the weekly and have enough comms for a full set. On top of this you had the mod vendors that were dirt cheap making it super easy to BiS and experiment on top of the fact that warzone comms could be converted into legacy tokens so all your alts could share their warzone comms.

Yes, it was the perfect system, end of story.

4.x was the perfect system. They removed the cap on warzone comms allowing you to pvp in lowbies while leveling and have enough comms for a complete set of pvp gear the minute you hit cap. And if you didn't pvp at all in lowbies you could spend a single day over the weekend doing both dailies and the weekly and have enough comms for a full set. On top of this you had the mod vendors that were dirt cheap making it super easy to BiS and experiment on top of the fact that warzone comms could be converted into legacy tokens so all your alts could share their warzone comms.

 

Yes, it was the perfect system, end of story.

You got 25,000 comms over the weekend with dailies and a weekly? That's amazing!

You got 25,000 comms over the weekend with dailies and a weekly? That's amazing!

Hey buddy, you know they changed the gear costs in 3.x right? It was only around 4k comms to get the unranked set and they removed ranked comms during the 3.x era with the ranked set being around 16k I believe. The difference between the ranked and unranked set was small and it didn't take much longer to get the ranked set once you were in a full unranked set.

Also, around 4.x they increased the comm rewards for the daily and weekly. I don't remember the exact amount, but it was a lot. Like significantly more than the amount it gave during 3.x. So yes, in the span of a single day over a weekend you could easily have a full pvp set and be competitive.

You got 25,000 comms over the weekend with dailies and a weekly? That's amazing!

Have you played 4.x? 25wz comms would be enough to gear up more than 10 characters BiS with additional healing/dps set.

Have you played 4.x? 25wz comms would be enough to gear up more than 10 characters BiS with additional healing/dps set.

I dunno about BiS, but it would be enough to buy a full unranked set for about 6 alts.

Edit:

Dammit BW give us this system back....the more I remember how good it was in 4.x the more I hate the current system and the garbage we're about to get with 6.0......Then again BW doesn't give a crap about pvpers so we're gonna be stuck with a trash rng loot system.

Hey buddy, you know they changed the gear costs in 3.x right? It was only around 4k comms to get the unranked set and they removed ranked comms during the 3.x era with the ranked set being around 16k I believe. The difference between the ranked and unranked set was small and it didn't take much longer to get the ranked set once you were in a full unranked set.

 

Also, around 4.x they increased the comm rewards for the daily and weekly. I don't remember the exact amount, but it was a lot. Like significantly more than the amount it gave during 3.x. So yes, in the span of a single day over a weekend you could easily have a full pvp set and be competitive.

In 4.0, there were still ranked comms. It cost 6K for the first set and another 16K for the second set. So 22K if you wanted to have the top tier set, and more if you wanted to min/max your gear.

I'm not sure if you're talking about right before 5.0 launched, because I wasn't around at the beginning of 5.0.

Have you played 4.x? 25wz comms would be enough to gear up more than 10 characters BiS with additional healing/dps set.

So it only cost 2k comms for a full best in slot set? Sorry, I don't believe that's true.

Still need to grind in an RNG system for amps/tacticals/gear sets and have to grind for BIS mods. Max bolster doesn't really solve anything. PvP with the 4.x system was literally the most optimal solution.

if I am not mistaken there will be a vendor that sells all the set bonus pieces for the new currency. BiS should have a grind imo, and bis and max bolster wont have a big difference between the two anyways. As for the amplifiers, you can reroll to try and get the one you want.

To me the rng just makes you gear a bit faster if your lucky.

If you would suggest them to add the new currency to mid/lowbies wzs, then you will be more like 4.0. If you didnt gain currency from mid/lowbies in 4.0. gearing would of been longer for your alts.

Yeah, I got a little mad. Replies have been rather respectful given the fact that i was being a bit of a jerk. So props for that.

I just keep seeing revisionist history and factually incorrect information. Yes, I agree with Raansu: 4.x was the perfect system IMO. There was no significant gear grind. The unranked set was dirt cheap and not much worse than the ranked set. I could play all my alts and tweak the stats to my heart’s content by purchasing mods / enhancements (cheaply). The only downside is that it was a separate gear set that required under 30 seconds to change into. So the cost / benefit ratio was a minimum.

The simple fact is that we have to have a pvp gear grind because pvp gear went away. Yes, the removal of expertise had a direct effect of making a miserable pvp grind a la pve.

In 4.0, there were still ranked comms. It cost 6K for the first set and another 16K for the second set. So 22K if you wanted to have the top tier set, and more if you wanted to min/max your gear.

 

I'm not sure if you're talking about right before 5.0 launched, because I wasn't around at the beginning of 5.0.

http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-economy-and-ranked-rewards-restructure-game-update-3.3

It was 4075 for an unranked set, and ranked warzone commendations were removed in 3.3. They were replaced with tokens that we still have, so no ranked comms were not still around in 4.0. It cost 20,600 in total to go from unranked to ranked set, but again, the unranked set was competitive. You didn't need the ranked set at all in warzones and as long as you were augmented they really didn't make that much of a difference in ranked either and honestly a few days of warzones even playing casually is all it took to get a full BiS ranked set unlike the current situation that takes MONTHS and will be worse in 6.0.

They increased how many comms you got, they added a system that allowed you to transfer warzone comms with a legacy token so all your characters could share warzone comms and the cap was boosted to 200,000 making pvping while leveling a lowbie character extremely worthwhile (unlike now where the game practically discourages it...) You literally have to be insane to argue that the pvp system we had before the implantation of GC was not perfect for pvpers. Hands down it was the best thing for pvpers. Gear was cheap and easy to get and it kept lowbies active as well.

I played this game like crazy for years up until they added galactic command, so I'm gonna tell you right now, you're barking up the wrong tree in this argument and will lose. I remember most of the pvp changes over the years because the large majority of the time I pretty much did nothing but pvp in this game. You clearly don't remember much of anything during 3.x-4.x right before they added the GC system.

if I am not mistaken there will be a vendor that sells all the set bonus pieces for the new currency. BiS should have a grind imo, and bis and max bolster wont have a big difference between the two anyways. As for the amplifiers, you can reroll to try and get the one you want.

 

To me the rng just makes you gear a bit faster if your lucky.

I don't believe BiS in pvp should have a long grind. The thing that was great about the old system was that everything was so cheap that it was super easy to buy mods and experiment with different stat builds. You shouldn't have to constantly rely on rng luck and burn a whole in your wallet constantly rerolling those stupid amps. Amps and tacticals are literally going to be the worst thing ever for pvp. The game has a crap ton of balance problems already. Those two systems are just going to make pvp unplayable.

If you would suggest them to add the new currency to mid/lowbies wzs, then you will be more like 4.0. If you didnt gain currency from mid/lowbies in 4.0. gearing would of been longer for your alts.

It only cost 4k comms to get an unranked set in 4.x. It didn't take long at all to get a full set and warzone comms could be traded via legacy so just doing your dailies and weeklies on a main while you were leveling your alt to cap would easily earn enough comms to gear out your alt as soon as they hit level cap, especially if you were doing the lowbie pvp dailies and weeklies while leveling as well.