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Consular PvE low DPS and other issues?


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Then run balance. It works in PvP just fine. Infiltration isn't the highest parsing spec out there, but it is perfectly fine for clearing content. You're whining is ridiculous when your advanced class is capable of some of the best damage in the game. Learn to play.
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Then run balance. It works in PvP just fine. Infiltration isn't the highest parsing spec out there, but it is perfectly fine for clearing content. You're whining is ridiculous when your advanced class is capable of some of the best damage in the game. Learn to play.

 

Still waiting on that parse.

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What parse do you want? Go to Torparse and look at the ranked parses under statistics. Plenty of Shadows on there, most of them running balance.

 

Just looking for a parse showing shadows even within 200 dps of maras/powertechs on the operation dummy, since you seem to think they're the best dps.

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Well first off, no one gives a crap about the operation dummy. What matters is actual boss fights. Go to Torparse. Search Shadows. Look at the statistics page. I'm not doing you're work for you.

 

If you do that it shows sages as some of the highest too, yet you complain like no end about how "bad" sages dps are. It's not the classes fault you parse at 1600 it's yours.

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If you do that it shows sages as some of the highest too, yet you complain like no end about how "bad" sages dps are. It's not the classes fault you parse at 1600 it's yours.

 

Both SimC and the parses show Balance Shadows parsing higher than Balance Sages, and by a good amount. You can pretend something else, but that is what the numbers show.

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Both SimC and the parses show Balance Shadows parsing higher than Balance Sages, and by a good amount. You can pretend something else, but that is what the numbers show.

 

Hmm well you're wrong about the parses and the guy above was right. Real in-game dps is what matters. There are sentinels that i play with that can parse 2.1k on the dummy, but on fights like dread guard where the amount of movement for melee is insane, they drop right down to 1.4-1.5k.

The 1.4 BiS for Hybrid Sage only Simcrafts around 1850-1875 and yet i'm hitting some of the best in-game readings in the world.

 

Check Writhing Horror 16HM. Do you see any Shadow/Assassin above me? No.

Check Operator IX 16HM. Do you see anyone in the world above me? No.

Check Kephess the Undying 16HM. Do you see any Shadow/Assasin above me? No.

 

Stop complaining about sages. WE ARE FINE!

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Balance/Madness Shadows/Sins are in the top 3 for highest DPS AC's; only problem is that so very few players are able to reach that its not even worth noting it.

Sentinel/Marauders are still the highest (in full 63 gear, the noted Max DPS is 2524 dps), with PT's at about 2100 and Assassins/Shadows at 2026 DPS.

Everything else runs mid 1900's for the most part. (These are SimC numbers, or DPSCraft.) In real parsing, I can break 2100 on a dummy on my mara regularly, with some parses breaking 2.3k

 

Calling ******** on this. The only way you're possibly able to break 2k is if you: Have the Armor Debuff on the dummy, Pop an Adrenal and Bloodthirst, And only parse for 1:30//2 minute interval.

 

No boss fight is 2 minutes and stands still the entire time either. (More commonly referred to a Patchwerk fight)

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Hmm well you're wrong about the parses and the guy above was right. Real in-game dps is what matters. There are sentinels that i play with that can parse 2.1k on the dummy, but on fights like dread guard where the amount of movement for melee is insane, they drop right down to 1.4-1.5k.

The 1.4 BiS for Hybrid Sage only Simcrafts around 1850-1875 and yet i'm hitting some of the best in-game readings in the world.

 

Check Writhing Horror 16HM. Do you see any Shadow/Assassin above me? No.

Check Operator IX 16HM. Do you see anyone in the world above me? No.

Check Kephess the Undying 16HM. Do you see any Shadow/Assasin above me? No.

 

Stop complaining about sages. WE ARE FINE!

 

The guy who said real DPS on real bosses is what matters was also me. The fact is the parses and the SimC results show the same disparities.

 

Sages can put out fine DPS. I have parses on the top 50 lists too, but the issue isn't whether the best geared and skilled Sages in the game can put out good DPS. The issue is that if gear and skill are identical, a Sentinel will put out 8-10 percent more DPS in most fights. That's what the sims show and that is what the parses show.

 

Shadow Balance is similarly ahead spec-wise, but for some reason I don't see that many Shadows using it. The few DPS Shadows I run into seem to like using Deception. I'm guessing this is because of they enjoy the burst even if its sustained damage isn't great and because of PvP.

Edited by SoonerJBD
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Sages can put out fine DPS. I have parses on the top 50 lists too, but the issue isn't whether the best geared and skilled Sages in the game can put out good DPS. The issue is that if gear and skill are identical, a Sentinel will put out 8-10 percent more DPS in most fights. That's what the sims show and that is what the parses show.

 

Yeah maybe on a stand still, patchwerk style fight. But if you check simcraft for sages, especially hybrid and balance, they aren't massively effected by movement. If you implement "light" or "helter skelter" into simcraft, sages drop by 100-200 dps from simcrafted max.

 

The logs for Operator IX show that perfectly. The same melee players parsing 1800 for fights like dread guard are parsing 1300 for operator. Whereas i parse almost exactly the same on my sage.

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Yeah maybe on a stand still, patchwerk style fight. But if you check simcraft for sages, especially hybrid and balance, they aren't massively effected by movement. If you implement "light" or "helter skelter" into simcraft, sages drop by 100-200 dps from simcrafted max.

 

The logs for Operator IX show that perfectly. The same melee players parsing 1800 for fights like dread guard are parsing 1300 for operator. Whereas i parse almost exactly the same on my sage.

 

I would classify it as "most fights" where Sentinels and Snipers have a distinct advantage. There are fights where the mechanics mitigate the disparity, but if you look at the parses for all the various fights, you see the same few classes dominating the top parses. And if you just take a sampling of parses from each class, you'll find the disparity there as well. And again, we are talking about the average.

 

Also worth mentioning that the stats page on Torparse has some serious bugs for TfB and EC that you have to weed out. Some of the top parses are for fights that didn't include a kill. You have to weed those out because a two minute fight is not representative of anything, let alone some of the ones that show up on there that lasted 10 or 20 seconds before a wipe.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys, not sure if i'm off topic or this thread went off topic... but.... this is the latest thread that has anything regarding dps for balance shadows.

 

I have recently changed to balance from infil and am loving the extra sustained dps atm..... (I am happy with my dps output atm, nps with balance pve dps output btw...) Wanting to max out my dps after lots of dummy testing, i seem to have hit my ceiling and was wondering if anyone out there knows how to squeeze out anymore dps from my beloved shadow?

 

Currently sustaining dummy parses on my ship, with buffs/stims but no adrenals or help from armor debuffs (guardian/commando etc...) around 1700-1750dps. I have seen posts and parses from people sustaining 1800+ and was wondering how this is achieved... I believe i have the rotation/priority down to an art but am still unable to sustain it up that high... I brought in a commando for a dummy run the other day and could sustain above 1800 but the posts i have been reading lead me to believe that there is a way to reach this without outside help/debuffs.

 

I am geared BIS (imo) or close to it, with all 61's but no 63's as of yet. Would adrenals account for the last 50 or so dps or is there something else?

 

Looking forward to maxing this guy out, any advice/tips would help.

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That sounds totally adequate with lvl 61 mods. Obviously upgrading to some lvl 63 mods will help. People are crafting them for mats on most servers, so you can upgrade without running TFB HM or NM EC.

 

Other than upgrading your gear, you want to make sure you aren't clipping your dots. That will keep your DPS up there.

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This was a quick run last night after putting in an extra crit mod, but you get the idea. If you look at the point before i stop attacking i was sitting around 1750. Also a few logs slightly lower too.

 

Would love to hear from some guys hitting 1800+ because i can't see how this would be achieved.... unless full 63's or maybe armor debuffs from external help (guardian/commando).

 

I might go check out some logs from Chukles, he seems to be solid balance dps.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/55281/5

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  • 3 weeks later...
Balance Shadows put out the highest DPS of any of the AC's.

 

this is probably the most false thing ive ever seen on the forums. lets start witha list of AC'sthat DPS higher.

 

focus sentinal

watchman sentinal

gunnary commando

assault commando

balance sage

TK sage

hybrid sage

sharpshooter gunslinger

 

and some more that may as well be higher.

infil shadows

vigilance guardians

focus guardians

assault vanguards

 

 

My main is a Shadow and we ARE siverely subpar as DPS. this is fact..

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This thread is old, and some things have changed, but balance shadows do good damage. You need to learn to play. The sims showed Balance Shadows at the top of the list in base campaign gear (although sentinels/marauders weren't tested).

 

http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Raid_Campaign.html

 

It's still the best PvE spec for Shadows and does damage at least as good as anything a Sage can put out.

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This thread is old, and some things have changed, but balance shadows do good damage. You need to learn to play. The sims showed Balance Shadows at the top of the list in base campaign gear (although sentinels/marauders weren't tested).

 

http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Raid_Campaign.html

 

It's still the best PvE spec for Shadows and does damage at least as good as anything a Sage can put out.

 

Incorrect sims. Every single number it gave was proven wrong over time. I agree that shadows aren't the worst dps, but they aren't higher than snipers and such. Posting that same link everytime doesn't make it any less false.

Edited by Truescopes
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Incorrect sims. Every single number it gave was proven wrong over time. I agree that shadows aren't the worst dps, but they aren't higher than snipers and such. Posting that same link everytime doesn't make it any less false.

 

I know logic is hard, but at least try to understand that if you want to say something is "fact" or "proven wrong" you have to give evidence and data to support your assertion.

 

Balance shadows do perfectly fine damage. I have seen plenty of data both in sims and parses to support this. I have seen no data to support your claims that they don't.

 

Data you don't like > no data at all

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this is probably the most false thing ive ever seen on the forums.

 

My main is a Shadow and we ARE siverely subpar as DPS. this is fact..

 

If your main is a shadow and this is what you believe, i would suggest roll another class. I'm not going to say that we are the highest dps'n class, but it sounds like you may be having issues with yours. I don't find too many that can out dps my balance shadow in a raid situation. Trash and bosses alike. If you can't play your class, don't start whining about the class as a whole.

 

I am more then happy with my shadows dps and the people i run with are as well. Sounds like a case of L2P....

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While I think there are balance issues between the promised parity between dps classes, some people seem to take the idea to extreme levels.

 

I've had 4 different players all try to convince me that their class was the worst dps in the game compared to other classes. And each of these players were on 4 different classes! There seems to be a case of "the grass is greener" phenomenon.

 

I've even had different people on this forum try to convince me that Commando dps (my main) "caps out" at 1400, to which I found plenty of parses on real boss situations that proved otherwise.

 

It is one thing to ask Bioware to bring dps classes closer to the promised 5%. It is quite another to rage about OMGZ x class dps is the werstest in the gameeee The latter in indicative of a player who is missing the basics on how to play their class.

Edited by Khevar
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If your main is a shadow and this is what you believe, i would suggest roll another class. I'm not going to say that we are the highest dps'n class, but it sounds like you may be having issues with yours. I don't find too many that can out dps my balance shadow in a raid situation. Trash and bosses alike. If you can't play your class, don't start whining about the class as a whole.

 

I am more then happy with my shadows dps and the people i run with are as well. Sounds like a case of L2P....

 

 

i roll a tank more often then not but i hvae, too this day, never seen shadow DPS suprise me. i know my class very well and even in my second rate DPS gear (most rakata) since im mainly a tank istill get only around 1350 DPS. im not talking down my favorite class im simply saying that the guy who posted this was wrong on many levels since there are a vastamount of classses that can out DPS even the best of shadows.

 

PS. in my guild there are 2 sages rolling hybrid spec that are close to 2k DPS on the operation training dummy without an armour debuff, adrenals, or inspiration on a 6 minuite parse. as well they average above 1800 at the least in most ops scenarios.

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im not talking down my favorite class im simply saying that the guy who posted this was wrong on many levels since there are a vastamount of classses that can out DPS even the best of shadows.

 

PS. in my guild there are 2 sages rolling hybrid spec that are close to 2k DPS on the operation training dummy without an armour debuff, adrenals, or inspiration on a 6 minuite parse. as well they average above 1800 at the least in most ops scenarios.

 

Never said we are the highest dps'n class out there. I can assure you, that it would take someone who is completely on his game and know their character inside and out, to out dps my shadow (in simliar gear), even then i would be surprised if i was not close.

 

You say you have 2 sages running a high parse in your guild, out of how many people...... I'm guessing that probably around 5% of the people using higher parsing classes can actually utilize their potential. My point was simply, if you think we are a low dps'n class, then you may not know how to use him properly. You may well be surprised by what a shadow can do, when you know how to use him. I'd love to run with someone who can out dps me in game, I find that challenge part of the fun in the game. Would love to run with your sages, check out there gear/stats/build and see what they can do running something with me. Looking at a parse online, doesn't really interest me too much.

 

Come run with me somtime, i'd be happy to show you what a shadow can do, in end game content.

 

p.s. I've seen 1900+ parses from shadows too.... we are not as bad as what everyone tries to make out.

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