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New Player Warning: Class DPS is severely gimped right now.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
New Player Warning: Class DPS is severely gimped right now.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.22.2018 , 07:25 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Labranth View Post
If only there was a time machine and I teleported back to 2012 and didn't pick sorc as my main. Oh geez, the only viable spec (let's be honest) in team ranked is Corruption. Madness and Lightning are so in the bottom right now, that it's just sad. BW just ruined Sorc dps.
Hold out for 6.0. I think you'll find the waters more temperate and to your liking. New Metas can be like a rebirth to some classes.

There is a saying "Calm seas make bad sailors". - Classes and specs do not make good players or bad players. Do not relent in playing what you love.

I play a Carnage Marauder. If I was smart, if I wanted to have a better overall performance ceiling, the smart move would be to switch to Fury. Fury is Rank 2 out of 18 Carnage is Rank 14 out of 18. You know what 15 and 16 are? Madness and Lightning.

Switching to "better specs" [FOTM or "OP"] are great ways of not becoming a better player.

There is no spec in this game, that cannot take the top DPS place in a WZ. There is no spec that cannot out DPS any other spec based on player ability. If you think there is any class or spec that you cannot beat because of the spec you are playing alone, you won't beat that spec ever, even though you can.

Nothing is more sweet than when I am able to do more DPS than a Fury Marauder or a Sniper as a Carnage Marauder. I can't always do it of course, but I can do it enough that no one is going to call it luck. It isn't because I am such a great player, in fact, I'm probably less well rounded than most players because I haven't played all the classes first hand. I have played Carnage in good and bad, and it has never been worse than it is now. I don't care. I will make people fear me using Carnage because I am always going to use Carnage and I am going to keep on getting better at it because I am never giving up on it and I will never stop practicing and trying to get better.

You can be a nightmare on the battlefield with Lightning. I can't tell you how to do it, but I know it can be done, because I know two of them who will destroy anyone and you will never beat them in damage. They are outliers to be sure, the best of the best, but that means, it's possible and if it's possible, that means you can do it too.

Rise to the occasion. Do not give up. Don't let anyone tell you what your limitations are. The only person who can impose limitations on you is yourself.

I may not be the best Marauder there is, in fact, I'm saying i'm not, but that's not ever going to stop me from trying to be. There is always more to learn. There is always room for improvement and there is no such thing as the 'best' for very long.

Playing it safe, is the worst limitation you could ever place on yourself. If you only take on 'easy' you will never have a chance at 'hard'. There is no shame in failure, there is no shame in losing a fight, there is no shame in not being the best, there is only shame in not trying at them.

You don't have to be the best or win every fight to make people afraid to cross sabers with you [or lightning bolts, as it were =] ], you only have to show them that you can kill them sometimes, you can beat them sometimes, that' you are capable of grabbing the top spot sometimes, that's enough to give them pause.

No one never loses a fight, no one always takes the top spot, they are unrealistic goals to set for one's self as they are impossible. You will never have a chance at reaching the top if you too afraid of falling to try. The top, is the only goal worth trying for, even if you never get there.

Specs set ceiling levels, they don't set outcomes.

Labranth's Avatar


Labranth
06.22.2018 , 07:49 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Hold out for 6.0. I think you'll find the waters more temperate and to your liking. New Metas can be like a rebirth to some classes.

There is a saying "Calm seas make bad sailors". - Classes and specs do not make good players or bad players. Do not relent in playing what you love.

I play a Carnage Marauder. If I was smart, if I wanted to have a better overall performance ceiling, the smart move would be to switch to Fury. Fury is Rank 2 out of 18 Carnage is Rank 14 out of 18. You know what 15 and 16 are? Madness and Lightning.

Switching to "better specs" [FOTM or "OP"] are great ways of not becoming a better player.

There is no spec in this game, that cannot take the top DPS place in a WZ. There is no spec that cannot out DPS any other spec based on player ability. If you think there is any class or spec that you cannot beat because of the spec you are playing alone, you won't beat that spec ever, even though you can.

Nothing is more sweet than when I am able to do more DPS than a Fury Marauder or a Sniper as a Carnage Marauder. I can't always do it of course, but I can do it enough that no one is going to call it luck. It isn't because I am such a great player, in fact, I'm probably less well rounded than most players because I haven't played all the classes first hand. I have played Carnage in good and bad, and it has never been worse than it is now. I don't care. I will make people fear me using Carnage because I am always going to use Carnage and I am going to keep on getting better at it because I am never giving up on it and I will never stop practicing and trying to get better.

You can be a nightmare on the battlefield with Lightning. I can't tell you how to do it, but I know it can be done, because I know two of them who will destroy anyone and you will never beat them in damage. They are outliers to be sure, the best of the best, but that means, it's possible and if it's possible, that means you can do it too.

Rise to the occasion. Do not give up. Don't let anyone tell you what your limitations are. The only person who can impose limitations on you is yourself.

I may not be the best Marauder there is, in fact, I'm saying i'm not, but that's not ever going to stop me from trying to be. There is always more to learn. There is always room for improvement and there is no such thing as the 'best' for very long.

Playing it safe, is the worst limitation you could ever place on yourself. If you only take on 'easy' you will never have a chance at 'hard'. There is no shame in failure, there is no shame in losing a fight, there is no shame in not being the best, there is only shame in not trying at them.

You don't have to be the best or win every fight to make people afraid to cross sabers with you [or lightning bolts, as it were =] ], you only have to show them that you can kill them sometimes, you can beat them sometimes, that' you are capable of grabbing the top spot sometimes, that's enough to give them pause.

No one never loses a fight, no one always takes the top spot, they are unrealistic goals to set for one's self as they are impossible. You will never have a chance at reaching the top if you too afraid of falling to try. The top, is the only goal worth trying for, even if you never get there.

Specs set ceiling levels, they don't set outcomes.

The sarcasm is strong in this one. Looks like Rocky speech xD
All I did, I did for justice.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.22.2018 , 08:18 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Labranth View Post
The sarcasm is strong in this one. Looks like Rocky speech xD
Sarcastic? I wasn't being sarcastic at all. Perhaps I choose my words poorly as that was not at all my intention.

Far as the Rocky Speech, yeah, I think you got me on that one now that I read it again heh.

Yo Adrian! I did it!!!

Gramm's Avatar


Gramm
07.17.2018 , 03:44 PM | #24
Dps sorc master race still exists, unquestionable that we're trash in the elites of ranked but by far not push overs unless you're bad. Not hard to hold your own in pvp. Ranked ehh it gets tough but if a challenge and being handicapped slightly scares you... well playing a light armor class, in general, isn't something you should be interested in. I for one played sorc dps since 1.8 and continue to do so to this day and with a big ol' smile as I beat most players even in Fotm classes. Most people don't know how to play their class outside of their basic function anyway. Its those who continue to fight in the class they enjoy even if it's underperforming and find a way to continue playing competitively those are the people I respect.

I have and always will suggest people play sorc and attempt to master its playstyle and how to fight other classes in pvp because if you can beat most classes as a sorc you're a solid pvper handsdown.
-Zānios
Zanios - 70 sorc

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
07.18.2018 , 12:18 PM | #25
In Pvp even they are not trash tier - they are ok just not Maras/Snipers/Mercs. I am talking about madness though not lightning - lightning is in a sad state in Pvp. Well played operatives are also better (than madness) but you have to be gud on operative and not simply "show up". With all other classes sorc madness is probably better in PvP.

In Pve it is actually an easier ranged class to be playing - no resource management, easy aoe fluff. Ligtning is OK too, it is "harder" because it needs higher apm and is click intensive compared to arsenal and marksman.
In operation boss parses usually only melee to significantly more damage than a sorc now but that is by bioware "design" since those class balance changes. Those melee dps if played well generally do better than snipers and mercs in those parses too.

in pve nightmare the question is mainly not dps but why bring a dps sorc when a sniper brings a raid-wide shield to soak damage for the whole raid for a pretty long time, and a merc brings reflect to cheese some boss enrage mechanics/ makes dpsing certain bosses easier.
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verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
07.21.2018 , 01:22 PM | #26
They bring surprising durability and self-healing that doesnt gimp their dps. They have a raid wide buff if you don't have a sorv heal (altough most teams do) and if so, their bubble is a great utility. Your force barrier works just as well for cheesing mechanics than a merc.

Whats important for an ops team is that you can pull the numbers. Sniper's ballistic shield is great in some fight, useless in high mobility scenarios. Good to have it along, but merc vs sorc, I'd say sorc brings plenty argument to be a good contender at equal skills.
Verfallen (Assassin) | Azorek (Sorcerer)
Veroth (Marauder) Altamira (Merc) Aing (Sniper)

Verfalled (sage) | Tiemrys (Shadow)Verfaing (Sentinel)Evenroth (Commando)
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Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
07.26.2018 , 08:55 AM | #27
The issue is twofold: raid leaders are dumb, and most people can't push buttons fast enough. Sorcs are capable of clearing all content, especially considering how over-geared everyone is. Keep in mind that the content was balanced for 242 gear; 248s provide approx. 5 percent extra damage. Players also have access to 236 and 240 augments, which add 3-4 percent to DPS over their 228 predecessors. Players are therefore pumping out 10 percent more damage than they were in early 5.0, a time when guilds were still clearing this content with ease. Lightning now, in all its nerfed glory, pumps out as much damage as Lethality was doing back in January 2017.

If players can't make the checks as a sorc, they need to improve. It's not (solely) the class, it's not bioware, it's 100 percent their inability to play the class at the bare minimum level.

Both sorcs and mercs bring a lot to the table. With that said, though, merc (IO in particular) is better at virtually every fight for four reasons: (1) IO parses around 4-5 percent higher than either sorc spec and has better synergy with the more frequently played DPS classes; (2) IO still has a respectable dot spread/cleave if the player is disciplined and doesn't mess up their heat; (3) IO is just as bursty as lightning, and is arguably just as bursty as arsenal; and (4) mercs have reflect, allowing them to cheese certain mechanics while pumping out extra damage.

There are a few exceptions, thanks to sorc's respectable levels of mobility and on-demand damage reduction from its utilities. On council, I kite Raptus on both sorc and merc: I require less healing on my sorc and my DPS is roughly the same. Sorcs are better at cheesing slams on TFB, giving them more uptime in second phase; the problem is that merc can just barely survive all slams as well, and merc is far superior in phase one.

Sorcs are also really good at cleaving the crystals on Calphy...and for pulling clueless players into the portals.

tl;dr: mercs are generally better, but sorcs are arguably more survivable in pve and their dps is still capable of clearing all content
Hoppin, The Cutest Mercenary <Death Smile>
Hoppinator/Cutest Mercenary (Merc), Hoppin (Sorc), Hopposites (Mara), Hoptimal (Sin)
Hopalicious (Jugg), Hopperative (Operative), Hoptimize (PT)

DarthCognusSion's Avatar


DarthCognusSion
07.26.2018 , 01:07 PM | #28
This thread is epitome of sorc players in swtor (at least in PvE). You have the inexperienced/bad players complaining that the class isn't viable while all the experienced/good players try to tell them that the class is fine and they just have to learn to play and get better.

GrimWulf's Avatar


GrimWulf
08.07.2018 , 07:01 AM | #29
No. The class is not fine. It is the worst of the DPS bunch. It should brought in line to be with Merc and Jugg. Or Jugg and Merc should be brought down into the slums with the Sorc/Sage.

At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge...

Malkai's Avatar


Malkai
08.10.2018 , 07:32 AM | #30
The sorc dps specs may be towards the bottom of the spectrum currently, but the numbers difference between the top and the bottom is pretty marginal and largely insignificant when it comes to progression.

Every spec and class is viable for nim progression granted the players themselves are up to par. If someone thinks you are missing enrage timers because of a couple of comparably underperforming specs are in the ops group it's not because of those specs, it's more the case that you have 'players' underperforming; certainly not a classes' fault. That ops leader should be ashamed for thinking otherwise.

Sure some specs have to work harder for the dps that they get compared to some others, though that's the nature of pve class balancing; it will happen.

Overall, bring the player not the class.