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PTS conquest changes are disasterous

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
PTS conquest changes are disasterous

ShinLunaAzure's Avatar


ShinLunaAzure
10.10.2019 , 10:10 PM | #1
Raising low yield conquest to 500k is going to absolutely destroy small guilds ability to progress, and the 50k personal threshold even moreso destroy the benefit for the ones that can still handle small yield. This is only going to push the encryption market on GTN harder when small guilds not only have a harder time getting encryption at all, but get far fewer as they do. If you go by GTN prices as a "value" for their grinding, fully opening the command deck alone is over a billion credits worth of work as is under the normal system.

If you really wanted to dial down the number of rewards made for bigger guilds, you could just have the personal threshold scale to the size of the yield target such that it's doubled at medium or tripled at high so it swayed proportional to the credit reward's scale, though one could equally say that the amount of time it takes to get 50k makes even the large yield value pretty pathetic. It's hard to see how this does anything but screw over small guilds and shifting the share of encryptions more heavily in favor of the older more established guilds that not only don't need them, but often are the ones clearing all the conquest commanders before anyone else as well.

If you reduced the cost of getting a flagship to encourage young guilds to form this year, why are you suddenly punishing those of us who put months of our time into doing what you wanted and starting new guilds, mentoring new players, catching up returning vets, engaging with what was already a ridiculously big grind for the frameworks and trying to do everything right. This change alone easily overshadows anything else onslaught could add when it basically pulls the rug out from under guilds like our recently formed pub sister guild, where just a dedicated few of us could put in a frankly unreasonable amount of time to carry them to low yield while also being active on the impside for medium thresholds too. We already subbed for 3 years between expansions, we tried our best to spread word of mouth for onslaught, but now if it launches with these values as they're shown on the PTS, all of a sudden only one of our guilds will even be able to hit small yield and only 2-3 of us will likely even manage 50k on one character. It just seems like doing everything bioware appeared to want new guilds to do is being rewarded with a slap in the face.
May the force ever serve you.

TheRandomno's Avatar


TheRandomno
10.10.2019 , 10:18 PM | #2
With the new 50k target, 500k is equivalent to 150k currently. The conquest objectives also give more points than before.

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
10.10.2019 , 10:19 PM | #3
You do realize the points are basically the same as the 15k we have now.

1) All conquest objectives have been increased by the same % that the conquest goal went up. (another words the conquest objectives themselves give out 3+ times more points then they do on live.

2) All non conquest goals such as questing won't give you as much, but they are trying to get people to go back to the original idea of doing SPECIFIC things to get conquest. Not just run 2 or 3 daily area's to hit your conquest goal.

The main thing here is you'll still get points from kills, and questing but if your really trying for conquest you'll need to focus on what each week has for Conquest Objectives. If you follow the conquest objectives, getting the 50k won't be anywhere as bad as your thinking.

Edit: smaller guilds won't have an issue getting 500k conquest. I've seen guilds with 3 active players able to pull 700k+ before these changes. Now they'd be making over 2.1 mil conquest points after the 6.0 changes.
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ShinLunaAzure's Avatar


ShinLunaAzure
10.10.2019 , 10:39 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
You do realize the points are basically the same as the 15k we have now.

1) All conquest objectives have been increased by the same % that the conquest goal went up. (another words the conquest objectives themselves give out 3+ times more points then they do on live.

2) All non conquest goals such as questing won't give you as much, but they are trying to get people to go back to the original idea of doing SPECIFIC things to get conquest. Not just run 2 or 3 daily area's to hit your conquest goal.

The main thing here is you'll still get points from kills, and questing but if your really trying for conquest you'll need to focus on what each week has for Conquest Objectives. If you follow the conquest objectives, getting the 50k won't be anywhere as bad as your thinking.

Edit: smaller guilds won't have an issue getting 500k conquest. I've seen guilds with 3 active players able to pull 700k+ before these changes. Now they'd be making over 2.1 mil conquest points after the 6.0 changes.
Your definition of active is pretty off-base if one player earning over 230k is what you'd consider normal in the current system. We've certainly got a handful of folks that can pull that in, but I know how many hours they play per week and frankly for people who work full time jobs keeping up with them would be ridiculous. People already do do specific things to hit their yields, just last week anytime you queued for FP someone who wasn't conquesting would complain that nothing but czerka was popping. If someone logs on and dedicates their evening of playtime after work to say, doing all the dailies/weekly for gree, and killing the world bosses that's all well and good for the first run, but if they're one of those active players you suggest should carry the guild then it's diminishing returns forcing them to do generic, non-themed content like warzones to bulk it out for the extra encryptions in what's already a ludicrous grind for a guild that maybe only brings in say 10 people hitting their yields each week, which makes us still bigger than a lot of the ones getting their feet wet in recent months.

Then again, looking at how focused 6.0 seems to be on just depleting stockpiles for the hardcore players at the expense of casuals I suppose it makes sense, crafting prices will only get more ridiculous and leading people through the story into endgame will only get more laborious if these values launch to give us a 6.0 all about draining more credits and paying out less.
May the force ever serve you.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
10.11.2019 , 12:34 AM | #5
I'm still kinda skeptical. I'm in a guild with maybe a dozen other active players. Many weekend nights we have trouble making 8 for an ops group. Until the conquest changes that awarded conquest points from everything, which happened with the Dantooine update, we would never be able to make more than a small yield planet. Many weeks my toons represented 50% of all the points earned.

With those Dantooine-timed conquest changes, we have consistently been able to meet medium yield and, on occasion, large yield. We don't do it for encryptions, our flagships and strongholds are fully unlocked for both our Pub and Imp guild. I did benefit quite a bit from more medium yield weeks, in terms of CMTs, but I knew it was a fleeting success since 6.0 was soon on the horizon and I was well aware Spoils of War would change everything, including making my CMTs largely obsolete. PTS hasn't "disappointed" in that regard ... the nerf to the very things that required CMTs was so bad that crafted 228 augments are more useful. In the current system, a lot more of people's alts can reach personal goal, which is important when big ticket items are only once per legacy ... for example, this week of Relics of the Gree when Xenoanalyst is 7500 points but can only be done once.

With the changes planned for 6.0, it will be harder for smaller guilds to reach medium yield again and less characters will be hitting their personal goals. Now, you may say that's the way it should be, that my guild of 12 people shouldn't ever be able to hit medium yield. Maybe you are right. Unfortunately, in making these changes, playing alts is heavily impacted as much as small guilds are being punished for their short lived ability to hit higher yield planets.

So much for playing your way.
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Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
10.11.2019 , 12:58 AM | #6
So while conquest points from activities have increased accordingly, are the conquest points from just XP still the same? If yes, then by definition it will be harder to meet thresholds especially with limited time.

I like the way it is now. Perhaps it needs a bit of tweaking, but for the average player conquest can be accomplished in a reasonable time, which is a good thing.

I did not like the days when I had to do a million and two objectives on a daily basis to get conquest on multiple toons. Instead now I can just play the content I would like and not have to run say a couple dozen fps to get conquest done on just one toon.

ShinLunaAzure's Avatar


ShinLunaAzure
10.11.2019 , 07:05 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I'm still kinda skeptical. I'm in a guild with maybe a dozen other active players. Many weekend nights we have trouble making 8 for an ops group. Until the conquest changes that awarded conquest points from everything, which happened with the Dantooine update, we would never be able to make more than a small yield planet. Many weeks my toons represented 50% of all the points earned.

With those Dantooine-timed conquest changes, we have consistently been able to meet medium yield and, on occasion, large yield. We don't do it for encryptions, our flagships and strongholds are fully unlocked for both our Pub and Imp guild. I did benefit quite a bit from more medium yield weeks, in terms of CMTs, but I knew it was a fleeting success since 6.0 was soon on the horizon and I was well aware Spoils of War would change everything, including making my CMTs largely obsolete. PTS hasn't "disappointed" in that regard ... the nerf to the very things that required CMTs was so bad that crafted 228 augments are more useful. In the current system, a lot more of people's alts can reach personal goal, which is important when big ticket items are only once per legacy ... for example, this week of Relics of the Gree when Xenoanalyst is 7500 points but can only be done once.

With the changes planned for 6.0, it will be harder for smaller guilds to reach medium yield again and less characters will be hitting their personal goals. Now, you may say that's the way it should be, that my guild of 12 people shouldn't ever be able to hit medium yield. Maybe you are right. Unfortunately, in making these changes, playing alts is heavily impacted as much as small guilds are being punished for their short lived ability to hit higher yield planets.

So much for playing your way.
Agreed, Bioware seemed to make an effort to encourage new guilds to form this year, but these changes are just going to shove out smaller guilds for the more established ones, it's already a big problem that if you're small/medium yield and recruiting randoms, plenty of them will simply jump ship once they see a large conquest guild with full flagship recruiting. The wall to getting the thousands of encryption/dark projects necessary is already a mammoth task for small guilds.
May the force ever serve you.

omaan's Avatar


omaan
10.11.2019 , 08:14 AM | #8
I never cared about conquest tbh. However, if conquest becomes one part of the gearing progression ( and from what i heared it is ) then devs must compensate players who play only specific content with conquest losses. For example, i play only pvp and if i won't be able to get a weekly gear part for conquest because it requires playing pve it will be a weekly gear loss for pvp players. And where is your play what you want policy now? Maybe remove gear progression from conquest then?

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
10.11.2019 , 08:20 AM | #9
I hit conquests in the regular live game by doing 1/2 of an operation. 50k is a reasonable number, imo.
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Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
10.11.2019 , 08:59 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
I never cared about conquest tbh. However, if conquest becomes one part of the gearing progression ( and from what i heared it is ) then devs must compensate players who play only specific content with conquest losses. For example, i play only pvp and if i won't be able to get a weekly gear part for conquest because it requires playing pve it will be a weekly gear loss for pvp players. And where is your play what you want policy now? Maybe remove gear progression from conquest then?
If you only PvP, you'll be fine. with 150% SH bonus here are the PvP objectives, and points for this week.

1) Warzone: The killing field:: 1,438
2) Warzone: Medalist:: 2,375
3) Ranked warzone: Total Domination:: 2,375
4) Warzone:Total Domination:: 3,250

As you can see just doing normal PvP activities won't be difficult to get 50k in a week, even if you play only a couple hours a day. So an average match of 8 PvP medals even losing the match will give you 3,813 conquest points.so you'd only have to do like 13-14 matches a week. and that's is assuming you don't win even 1 of those matches.

PS: Conquest I don't think was ever meant to be finished on a character in 20-40 mins, and 50k isn't bad considering some activities like doing TFB this week on PTS is 24,375 points. So doing 1 Operation this week is basically 1/2 of the points you'd need. The only thing which is being diminished some is doing random non conquest objectives. You'll still get points, but it'll take you far longer if you ignore the objectives on the list.
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