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If not RNG ... then what are the options?


OlBuzzard

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I wish I could share your optimism. Like you say, I'm snake bit. I'm usually not pessimistic, maybe cynical if only for humor's sake, but I'm always encouraging the people around me and finding silver linings. But this game and it's development cycle... ugh, it's just.... toxic.

 

My dude, I feel ya. The absolute core of that stems from BioWare's business decision from the very beginning that it is perfectly ok for players to go away and come back for new content later.

 

No other MMO follows that business model that I know of.

 

 

The idea for any subscription based product is to keep your subscribers. Until that attitude changes, the development cycle is going to continue to feel like utter dog *****.

 

It's actually part of the reason the Under the Hood article was SO important back in March. I'll quote the key here:

 

While the team was looking down the road at future content, it was clear that these changes to the DYN system would be very beneficial to help facilitate those plans. By improving on this system now, it helps our designers with the future content we have planned.

So, how are DYNs going to be changed? We’re taking what are all individually separate entities (our previously mentioned NPC and wall for example) and packaging them together into a single item. By doing this, we will refine, polish, and optimize the entire process. In turn, this makes the development process for making new DYNs much shorter! This all leads to us being able to to build and work with objects in the game more efficiently, while lowering the chances of introducing new bugs throughout the process.

 

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20190319

 

Bold is my emphasis and I think a lot of people missed it or the significance of it.

 

DYNs are a big part of the engine BioWare uses. By working through and streamlining them, it will potentially allow them to push content out at a much higher rate when finished, especially if they are taking this approach with more than just DYNs.

 

I want to say, anecdotally, most of the developers off the record have talked about how hard the converted hero engine is to use. If they are finally taking time to update the tools they use to streamline production, it could mean then pushing content out at a faster clip.

 

THAT is why I am so curious about Onslaught. All production right now would be focused on it until launch, but once it is done, and they work through the bugs, how soon can they follow up?

 

Ideally, and this likely is impossible right now, but who knows? If SWTOR adopted a true MMO production schedule, we'd see something like this:

 

Quarter 1:New Flashpoint, New PvP Arena

Quarter 2: New Daily Area that expands the story (Ossus, for example)

Quarter 3: New (Short) Operation (Not much in Q3 due to push for next expansion, 5 boss limit, shorter in time scope.)

Quarter 4: Next Expansion, that includes Planets, New LONG Operation, PvP Arena and Flashpoint

 

We are a long way from that, but it's a goal they should shoot for, and until they get to the point to being able to attempt it, I would scrap Q1 and Q3 to work on not just the expansion for Q4, but also use that time to further improve and streamline the tools to make this type of release schedule a reality.

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I find that assessment of RNG perfectly fair. And I also agree with it.

 

But the issue is, because people have over-reacted, they can't even have a civil conversation about a little bit of RNG.

 

Well, it's not a "little" bit of RNG that I'm talking about.

There were ZERO ways of getting loot on PTS 6.0 (until this patch which I haven't tried out yet) that wasn't RNG.

 

1) Random world drops = by their very nature RNG and totally acceptable by pretty much everyone

2) RNG Kai Zykken vendor = 100% triple/quadruple layered RNG (RNG for amplifiers, RNG for armorings, RNG for Mods, RNG for enhancements)

3) RNG item by slot vendor (I forget the name). You pick your slot, but what comes out is random.

4) RNG boss drops No more tokens in operations?

5) RNG Renown crates - new version of command crates...ok...RNG...same as before...EXCEPT...no longer matched to your toon's class/spec. So...worse system.

 

 

Currently #3 is at least targeted RNG and matches your spec/level. Improvement over day 1.

Currently there's supposed to be an expensive vendor that sells you empty shells. Going to have to check that out..but if that's the case...we could get the armor skins we wanted from kai zaiken and empty out the mods and stuff...going by the description, I'm not sure how that's any better. I'll be checking it out shortly.

Edited by Darev
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Ok, then.

 

MOST other MMOs use RNG.

 

Now please show me which MMOs don't use RNG compared to which one's do, since you like to do work apparently.

 

Or you know, you could stop being deliberately obtuse because you know exactly what I meant... :rolleyes:

 

I assumed you said exactly what you meant, and that was what I responded to.

 

Are you now admitting that you didn't mean exactly what you said?

In which case why would we believe anything else you say?

 

All The Best

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It depends. Some were 100% the item you camped for. Other less time restricted camps wouldnt be 100%, though.

 

Well then you can't say EQ didn't have RNG.

 

No RNG means 100% guaranteed drops on everything.

 

If something in the game wasn't guaranteed somewhere to drop every single time, that's RNG.

 

So therefore by your admission, EQ had RNG.

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I assumed you said exactly what you meant, and that was what I responded to.

 

Are you now admitting that you didn't mean exactly what you said?

In which case why would we believe anything else you say?

 

All The Best

 

I have since corrected it. I noticed you're more worried about fighting with me over semantics then doing the legwork does avoiding what I actually said and meant there for proving my point.

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Question on that. Did the item drop 100% of the time from the spawn, and the spawn timer was the constricting factor?

 

lol not in most cases.

 

For instance, Hadden's Earring. This dropped from Hadden, a NPC mob that spawned every 6 hours. Thing is, the earring was a 25% drop. He'd drop other useless things, but this earring granted endless underwater breathing when worn and because of the the inconsistent drop rate it was worth a lot.

 

So if being honest that is a form of RNG. The thing is, this item was a coveted "rare" item and worth the inconvenience for many to camp.

 

Camp rules on EQ1 stopped most kill-stealing so the biggest problem was finding the camp open. There were many rare mobs that spawned on all different timers that would have a rare item drop from them in this same fashion.

 

The issue with RNG how they set it up on SWTOR is RNG isn't used for exceptionally rare and coveted items, instead RNG is being used for regular sets of armors.

 

There's no "excitement" with 'winning' RNG on a piece of regular armor you are systematically grinding for that's not one bit special or unique.

 

At least with EQ1 items like Hadden's Earring which had a degree of difficulty to getting, you were compensated for the wait with a useful rare item that held it's worth and could be sold for lots of plat or kept and used for raids on classes that couldn't cast underwater breathing spells.

 

No one enjoys grinding their time away with frustrating RNG for run of the mill armor set pieces that you need for progression purposes! I know I like to be compensated straight up for the time I invest and the time investment needed for gearing on SWTOR just isn't worth it to me, personally.

 

Hence why I ended up only having 1 toon fully geared in 248s while my "alts" that I once enjoyed playing as much as my main ended up sitting shelved with mixtures of rated gears before i just got bored and quit.

 

By the time Ossus arrived, I was done grinding for gears and took my break from SWTOR. The grinding for gears made me lose interest in this game. If they continue with another punishing gear grind I will probably do the same thing within a short amount of time. Grind one or two toons gears, then just get bored and take another break.

 

 

 

Well then you can't say EQ didn't have RNG.

 

No RNG means 100% guaranteed drops on everything.

 

If something in the game wasn't guaranteed somewhere to drop every single time, that's RNG.

 

So therefore by your admission, EQ had RNG.

 

Right. So even though this is a form of RNG on rare items, thing is, they were rare items. There actually was some excitement with this loot system because the items could be so unique and worth so much.

 

On SWTOR they are only adding frustration and resentment when all you get is a piece of gear that isn't special, not one bit and to get it, you got to navigate through RNG sometimes more than one layer of RNG. Progression gears shouldn't be rewarded via RNG.

 

On SWTOR they are making you go through RNG for common armor pieces that have absolutely no element of rarity or uniqueness to them. There's no special tingly feeling when you finally get that stupid piece of armor off the vendor with disintegrated UCs after failing to get it to drop even after opening 100 boxes. This is just tedious and annoying as hell.

Edited by Lhancelot
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Well then you can't say EQ didn't have RNG.

 

No RNG means 100% guaranteed drops on everything.

 

If something in the game wasn't guaranteed somewhere to drop every single time, that's RNG.

 

So therefore by your admission, EQ had RNG.

I never said it didnt. I said i thought he was right in his statement, but as i pondered it more, i can see the RNG there.

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RNG...

 

Most MMOs have some of it. WoW for example has a LOT of it.

 

Too much or "staple goods" (by analysis) … not good. People loose interest.

 

Excessive grinding to replace RNG system... same results as above.

 

 

Combining RNG with excessive grinding … worst possible case scenario !!

 

As I understand it... Promise from BW was that the new system would not be primarily RNG. Next week we should be seeing some changes in the PTS.

 

Side note: Those of us who are doing PTS should not forget those who are doing crafting. IMO … this is also important.

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This is what is on PTS right now.

 

RNG from Vendor "A" (paid with tech fragments)

RNG from Vendor "B" (paid with tech fragments)

NPC loot drops that are by nature supposed to be RNG

RNG boss loot drops of varying types/degrees of difficulty.

 

The only gearing system that isn't RNG is crafting, which has its own set of massive problems.

 

The patch yesterday made Vendor "A" not give out downgrades in gear as it did in it's first iteration.

Vendor "B" is the one where you get your set bonus gear...currently CAN give you downgrades due to RNG.

 

 

What I don't understand is they have a version in place, right now, with what's on live, that most people are pretty happy with.

If you want specific drops of specific levels, go do an ops boss and roll for the drop.

Don't have luck there? Spend UCs at a vendor and get your gear upgrade that way (takes longer, but it's 100% what you want).

 

There is no rational reason, that I've seen explained, to change it away from what we have.

 

add to this the 20 different type of mods and the RNG on amplifier...i think the key word here is RNG RNG RNG

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I have since corrected it. I noticed you're more worried about fighting with me over semantics then doing the legwork does avoiding what I actually said and meant there for proving my point.

 

The semantic here are important.

 

We are in effect petitioning Bioware to make changes to a Gearing System that simply isn't fit for purpose.

 

That means we have to be 100% accurate and exact about what we are criticising, why we are criticising it, how we would like it changed and why we would like it changed.

 

Anything less and they'll claim the forum feedback gave mixed messages so there was no clear indication of player satisfaction.

 

This is not about fighting with you over semantics; its about fighting them.

 

All The Best

Edited by DarthSpuds
Typo: fixed for clarification
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The semantic here are important.

 

We are in effect petitioning Bioware to make changes to a Gearing System that simply isn't fit for purpose.

 

That means we have to be 100% accurate and exact about what we are criticising, why we are criticising it, how we would like it changed and why we would like it changed.

 

Anything less and they'll claim the forum feedback gave mixed messages so there was no clear indication of player satisfaction.

 

This is about fighting with you over semantics; its about fighting them.

 

All The Best

 

I don't know if it's so much BW that misconstrues the information so much as it is the posters that defend BW and their bad game designs.

 

I mean I only see the message twisted and warped by people on the forums who like to try to make it confusing as to what it is other people complain about, not so much BW or Eric.

 

I can see why you'd point out semantics are important, but that's what trolls tend to do, create a argument over semantics and not the actual concern itself.

 

I think Zion understands well enough why people like us are so against the RNG and he even admits that the amount of RNG they got in the game is bad. actually, I think everyone admits it's bad as it stands now with 6.0.

 

I am curious just how much the devs can alter what they have so far created, though. Talk about flying at the seat of your pants... They have such a small amount of time and so much to do if they plan to appease the majority of players on SWTOR.

 

Then again, maybe it's cool as a cucumber in the studio, and all is working as intended. Maybe it's just us that are concerned about 6.0 lol. :D

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They have such a small amount of time and so much to do if they plan to appease the majority of players on SWTOR.

 

Well that's easy.

1) Ask us before hand, don't throw something in and they wait for the uproar and then tinker to make it half acceptable.

2) Read ALL the feedback and actually let it sink in, rather than reading it just to say they read it.

 

And ABOVE ALL

 

3) Don't keep making the same mistakes again and again - that's just stupid and incompetent.

 

If an RNG Gearing System has already been tried, players hated it so much you had to spend a year or more tinkering just to make it half reasonable FFS don't try and implement even more RNG.

 

That's not just stupid, it's arrogant. And stupid arrogance is a career killer.

 

All The Best

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Read ALL the feedback and actually let it sink in, rather than reading it just to say they read it.

I don't know what specifically you mean by "ALL the feedback", but I would think it involves more than just the complainers on the forums.

Some people on these forums seem to think that BW should only listen to their complaints and ignore what may (or may not) actually bring in new subscribers.

 

Personally, being a "casual" (but constant) player, gear is not that important. I'm not necessarily in favor of RNG, but I'm not against it either.

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I don't know what specifically you mean by "ALL the feedback", but I would think it involves more than just the complainers on the forums.

Some people on these forums seem to think that BW should only listen to their complaints and ignore what may (or may not) actually bring in new subscribers.

 

Personally, being a "casual" (but constant) player, gear is not that important. I'm not necessarily in favor of RNG, but I'm not against it either.

 

You're right, ALL of the feedback is...impractical.

 

My view of player forums, for this game and the last MMO I played, has always been a place for the devs to get a general feel for player happiness. There are other methods available to them, I would hope, to narrow down specifics.

 

However, and I feel it to be apparent with the several big issues with 6.0 as released on PTS, there are enough players posting where they have to see that it isn't just the "usual naysayers" (such as myself since 5.0) telling them there is a problem.

 

I'm not doing it to be contrary out of spite. I honestly believe these systems were, and are going to be, a net negative for the game as a whole. Right now the biggest issue I see is the vast increase in RNG.

 

I noticed it in the amplifier system. Many posters felt it wasn't a big deal, amplifiers were a "neat addition and it didn't matter HOW it was implemented, only that we were getting a new system." Ok, fine. I disagree, but was pretty much the only one at the time and it certainly wasn't the BIGGEST issue so I shut up about it.

 

The RNG issue really came into light shortly after that and this time it wasn't only me saying "hey, there's a problem here."

 

There is a problem with loot acquisition on PTS. There is a problem with the type of loot dropping (as seen in a different thread about how 6.0 could negatively affect their CM sales - their cash shop/money maker).

 

There has been a long history of being able to work toward gearing up via direct in game sales of some form or another for at least 5 years. I remember being able to do it with Black Hole tokens. I remember being able to do it with the crystal system that replaced the Black Hole tokens. I remember them taking that away with 5.0 and then putting something else in place when there was a loud enough outcry from the players...being the specific tokens we get from operation bosses.

 

Now they planned to take all that away again. Luckily, there was a mostly unified mood swing on the forums saying "Hey, this is a problem and we don't like it."

They saw it and made a first round of changes to one of the vendors. That vendor is still RNG but it's "targeted" RNG. So it's still bad, but it's LESS bad.

They also stated that they are going to implement a direct sales vendor.

 

We'll check it out when we see it.

 

While you may not see RNG as a problem when it's the ONLY loot/gearing system in place, many of the rest of us here do.

And if it had been put in place, all of the people who play and DON'T post, who also have an issue with it, would just leave.

The people posting about it now, beforehand, actually like the game enough to try to point out problems that prevent these mass exoduses.

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Commendations for gear from all content run and gear drops from Ops bosses. Pretty simple. A bit of rng is fine, but it can't run or in this case, ruin the game. The only reason rng was introduced was to prolong the gear grind because new content was sporadic. The upcoming changes the devs are implementing will hopefully be satisfactory.
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Personally, being a "casual" (but constant) player, gear is not that important. I'm not necessarily in favor of RNG, but I'm not against it either.

 

Good for you. ^

 

I care about gears and find them am important part of my MMO gaming experience and always have. They already have made gearing a far less enjoyable activity in the game and they are posed to make it even worse with 6.0.

 

I feel fairly confident most gamers on SWTOR view gear as important, the only players who do not would be RPers who play the game for purely social purposes and not gameplay.

 

They are shooting themselves in both feet with the ultra RNG, and the un-moddable gears is just filthy dirt icing on the trashy disgusting cake. These are bad changes that will hurt the game if they go live as is at this moment from PTS.

 

Let's think about this. Has SWTOR ever been a MMO where gears meant nothing to the game? Nope. Gears always mattered, and played a big part as a major activity for players to spend their time on in the game.

 

How can anyone minimalise gearing on SWTOR? I like white knights, it's good to defend the things you love but come on... No one in their right minds can defend this stuff lol.

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Specific gear has never been needed until end-game. This had been tru since 2011. Importance of gear varies from player to player, but the time in which it takes to acquire the gear is self-important. Its not equal to all, and isnt something that BW can specifically and statistically calculate to determine. The time frame is going to be determined by them, not by the player. And, if you take time to think about it, RNG actually helps most active players acquire their gear faster.

 

For example - lets assume BW sets average acquisition date of BIS gear as 3 months. You may or may not like that time requirement, but its their choice.

 

In a loot system they give complete control to the player (i.e no RNG, just componentsto purchase), that date is much more likely to be hard-controlled by BW. No matter how much or how little you play, you wont be BIS geared until 3 months after release. Take it or leave it.

 

However, in a loot system where RNG is a major part, its much more difficult for BW to control loot acquisition, because its based on the average player. The more active player will give themselves more opportunities to acquire loot, possibly better loot, than the less active player. Since BW cant control your playtime amd activity, YOU are in more control and can possibly acquire BIS in less than 3 months. And while it IS possible it can take longer than 3 months with bad luck RNG, its statistically unlikely that the majority of players (of the same active playtime) will experiencs slower loot acquisition.

 

Players want more control over loot acquisition, but they dont truly understand what they actually control. They dont seem to understand the actual benefits of the RNG system to activity. People who are threatening to leave (or do leave) likely dont understand that BW is giving them more control over loot based on statistical probability.

 

Google single event probability vs cumulative probability for more details.

 

In the end, and i dont truly expect many people to completely change their view on RNG, RNG is much more player friendly than people understand. For this reason, i can certainly understand if the dev team is sitting there scratching their heads in frustration with no idea what the playerbase wants. They hear "we hate RNG" and "we want more control over gearing" and "we dont want to grind," but each of those completely contradicts the others.

Edited by olagatonjedi
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In the end, and i dont truly expect many people to completely change their view on RNG, RNG is much more player friendly than people understand.

 

I think you underestimate the average intelligence of the playerbase. There's nothing complex about RNG, everyone understands the concept of RNG.

 

Also, what does that even mean, RNG is "player friendly." I mean if you are saying it's simplistic and requires no thought on behalf of the player, then yes it's player friendly but that's not the complaint against it.

 

We have come to the conclusion that RNG is fine when used as a part of gearing it's just not enjoyable when every facet of gearing has a RNG factor to it. You probably agree with this, too I am sure.

 

 

For this reason, i can certainly understand if the dev team is sitting there scratching their heads in frustration with no idea what the playerbase wants. They hear "we hate RNG" and "we want more control over gearing" and "we dont want to grind," but each of those completely contradicts the others.

 

Eric Musco indicates that they are working to walk back the RNG, so although you might be confused and scratching your head wondering what the players want the community manager and the dev team is not.

 

That's the important thing here, not that an individual player is confused as to what the playerbase wants. If you still are struggling with understanding what the players want, I'd suggest re-reading the many threads written by the players explaining what it is about RNG they dislike. Many of them are well written and go into great detail how too much RNG is frustrating.

 

I think it's sad that they feel they need to use RNG so heavily for their gearing because that means whoever is making the decisions for the game design has no confidence that the content itself is good enough to keep people active and engaged with the game. :(

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I think you underestimate the average intelligence of the playerbase. There's nothing complex about RNG, everyone understands the concept of RNG.

 

Also, what does that even mean, RNG is "player friendly." I mean if you are saying it's simplistic and requires no thought on behalf of the player, then yes it's player friendly but that's not the complaint against it.

 

We have come to the conclusion that RNG is fine when used as a part of gearing it's just not enjoyable when every facet of gearing has a RNG factor to it. You probably agree with this, too I am sure.

 

 

 

 

Eric Musco indicates that they are working to walk back the RNG, so although you might be confused and scratching your head wondering what the players want the community manager and the dev team is not.

 

That's the important thing here, not that an individual player is confused as to what the playerbase wants. If you still are struggling with understanding what the players want, I'd suggest re-reading the many threads written by the players explaining what it is about RNG they dislike. Many of them are well written and go into great detail how too much RNG is frustrating.

 

I think it's sad that they feel they need to use RNG so heavily for their gearing because that means whoever is making the decisions for the game design has no confidence that the content itself is good enough to keep people active and engaged with the game. :(

I think people are throwing out the idea of loot acquisition as a very simple process, when there are more facets to it than choosing whether to have RNG or not. So people saying to eliminate RNG are being shortsighted. And, as i said, dont truly understand the benefit of it. They know what RNG is, but not how applicable and beneficial it is. RNG is player friendly because it follows the "you get in what you put out" more in the long term than short term.

 

As for Musco and the team making changes, it was to be expected because thats what good companies do - make tweaks to satisfy the percieved wants of their playerbase, but hy no means does it indicate or conclude that they feel its better or agree with the vocal playerbase. They arent completely overhauling the system, and you can bet that RNG will still be a big part. That said, those tweak, however, show they are willing to compromise more than the playerbase though. Again, a win for BW.

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They hear "we hate RNG" and "we want more control over gearing" and "we dont want to grind," but each of those completely contradicts the others.

 

They aren't contradictory what so ever. Having a method of direct purchasing gear and/or getting specific drops that does not involve RNG can work just fine without having a massive grind. Oooh, like say the last version of Galactic Command. Not a massive grind to purchase gear off the vendors and then upgrade that gear and/or earn tokens from ops. bosses.

 

Direct purchase is 100% control over gearing. Where as RNG is no control over gearing. How does that contradict? It doesn't. It is perfectly aligned.

 

Not wanting to grind is simply a matter of how the numbers are tweaked and if artificial caps are put on. Not wanting to grind is the background state for any gear acquisition method they put in whether it be direct purchase or pure RNG. Not wanting to run 50 flashpoints for the currency to buy what you need is no different than not wanting to run 50 flashpoints to maybe getting the right lucky drop. So again, no contradiction.

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They aren't contradictory what so ever. Having a method of direct purchasing gear and/or getting specific drops that does not involve RNG can work just fine without having a massive grind. Oooh, like say the last version of Galactic Command. Not a massive grind to purchase gear off the vendors and then upgrade that gear and/or earn tokens from ops. bosses.

 

Direct purchase is 100% control over gearing. Where as RNG is no control over gearing. How does that contradict? It doesn't. It is perfectly aligned.

 

Not wanting to grind is simply a matter of how the numbers are tweaked and if artificial caps are put on. Not wanting to grind is the background state for any gear acquisition method they put in whether it be direct purchase or pure RNG. Not wanting to run 50 flashpoints for the currency to buy what you need is no different than not wanting to run 50 flashpoints to maybe getting the right lucky drop. So again, no contradiction.

Oh, forgot "we want a simple loot system" as one of the contradictory requests too.

 

And you have it incorrect. No system is 100% in control of the player, not even direct purchase. In direct purchase systems, the player does not control how frequently/quickly they can obtain those tokens. That is controlled by BW.

 

People dismiss it like its not important, but its equally important to how you obtain the loot.

 

All facets evaluated in totality, RNG gives the most control to the player.

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You're right, ALL of the feedback is...impractical.

 

My view of player forums, for this game and the last MMO I played, has always been a place for the devs to get a general feel for player happiness. There are other methods available to them, I would hope, to narrow down specifics.

 

However, and I feel it to be apparent with the several big issues with 6.0 as released on PTS, there are enough players posting where they have to see that it isn't just the "usual naysayers" (such as myself since 5.0) telling them there is a problem.

 

I'm not doing it to be contrary out of spite. I honestly believe these systems were, and are going to be, a net negative for the game as a whole. Right now the biggest issue I see is the vast increase in RNG.

 

I noticed it in the amplifier system. Many posters felt it wasn't a big deal, amplifiers were a "neat addition and it didn't matter HOW it was implemented, only that we were getting a new system." Ok, fine. I disagree, but was pretty much the only one at the time and it certainly wasn't the BIGGEST issue so I shut up about it.

 

The RNG issue really came into light shortly after that and this time it wasn't only me saying "hey, there's a problem here."

 

There is a problem with loot acquisition on PTS. There is a problem with the type of loot dropping (as seen in a different thread about how 6.0 could negatively affect their CM sales - their cash shop/money maker).

 

There has been a long history of being able to work toward gearing up via direct in game sales of some form or another for at least 5 years. I remember being able to do it with Black Hole tokens. I remember being able to do it with the crystal system that replaced the Black Hole tokens. I remember them taking that away with 5.0 and then putting something else in place when there was a loud enough outcry from the players...being the specific tokens we get from operation bosses.

 

Now they planned to take all that away again. Luckily, there was a mostly unified mood swing on the forums saying "Hey, this is a problem and we don't like it."

They saw it and made a first round of changes to one of the vendors. That vendor is still RNG but it's "targeted" RNG. So it's still bad, but it's LESS bad.

They also stated that they are going to implement a direct sales vendor.

 

We'll check it out when we see it.

 

While you may not see RNG as a problem when it's the ONLY loot/gearing system in place, many of the rest of us here do.

And if it had been put in place, all of the people who play and DON'T post, who also have an issue with it, would just leave.

The people posting about it now, beforehand, actually like the game enough to try to point out problems that prevent these mass exoduses.

 

Once again … well said.

 

It should be noted that I'm pretty much sticking to my guns on this as well. In one of the posts (different thread) it was pretty much summed up : a little RNG is not a problem. BUT when RNG becomes the main gearing support mechanism … THAT IS a problem.

 

We have been promised that the PTS will be updated this week with some more changes. Even though I'm spending a significant amount of time making preparations for "business at the office" this weekend … be rest assured I WILL be watching this carefully.

 

OH !! Let me throw this out if I may...

 

RNG and "progression" throughout the game... just how closely connected are they? RNG vs GRINDING … and progression ?? I'm not talking about leveling (in this case to 75) … but access to different raids / OP's … etc.

 

I'm not talking about opening a discussion on why some players want to belittle BW and why it's not done right .. I'm talking about progressing through the game … obtaining "the right stuff " … and thereby successfully in raids, OPs etc.

 

I may be way out on a limb on this … but it seems like somewhere in there gear and progression should be intertwined !

 

What's the point of obtaining BIS (or even reasonably good gear for that matter) … if there is no practical application?

 

I'm wondering if RNG (if it is used as a primary source of gearing up) .. is a substitution for progression of some sort?

 

(Just wondering )

 

I really AM wanting to see what happens on the PTS this week.

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